Interesting conversation in the game last night.

[Diesel]

I was watching the Heat broadcast. They started talking about our team.. They Said:

Mike Woodson and Herb Brown are disciples of Larry Brown and they preach the halfcourt game and won't divert from it.

Then they said "but this team does better when it runs"...

Why is it that everybody knows that we are a running team. I think BK is holding that to use as his first out when firing time comes. IN fact, I can see this summer, the heat will be on BK, he will fire Woody and hire somebody like Adelman and save his job.

My question is have we been purposely screwing the pooch with Woody?

BK had to know that Woody's style and our team's style was not a match. BK bring runner after runner into this team.. Even a guy like Speedy and then he leaves a coach who is indoctrinated in half court basketball at the helm...

Last year, the Spirit wanted to fire Woody (when they thought they had control)... and BK stepped up for Woody. BK held on to his Jack High while he continued to try to make a hand. He bluff at the flop....

Is this according to BK's plan?

[Packfill]

While we all may disagree about BK's ability to bring in basketball players I think we can all agree that BK has an absolute awful track record in terms of hiring coaches.

[bumpyphish1]

Okay, I am usually accused of giving BK too much credit, but I said a while back way before this season (while still a poster on the ESPN.com board) that it would work out perfectly if Woody was fired at the end of this season and we got a really good coach to follow him. Not even the ghost of Red Auerbach could have done anything with our team 3 years ago when Woody started nor could we have attracted a coach as good as the ghost of Red Auerbach. So we hire a lame duck (Woody) while our young team slowly rebuilds and our talent develops, and then get our actual coach of the future after a season in which we show enough promise that we could attract a good coaching commodity as well as possibly attract a good FA to come put this team over the top. I was hoping that we would show more promise this season than we have. Also, the ownership situation continues to be another hindrance in attracting big name talent/coaches. However, if Billy Knight had in mind to get another coach after Woody all along, than he is indeed a prophet. I think though that this plan may have to continue through one ore season due to our lack of progress and the ownership mess. Still, maybe a good coach would know that we have the pieces to build something good here and a sitdown with BK and the owners might be enough to convince someone of merit to jump on board (of this, I am quite skeptical).

Timing is everything.

My .02

[TroyMcClure]

So the question is, and always has been, is BK and idiot or is he gutless? He is an idiot for not having any guts. He hired Woody because they played together. They also lost a whole lot together. He could have hired another coach. He also could have fired this one. I think BK was being stupid when he: A-thought Woody was good enough.

B-Couldn't find anyone else he knew

He was too afraid of going with a coach he was unfamiliar with. But he was familiar with Woody and look how that worked out. I think he did not have a grand vision of how he wanted his coach to be and has been hoping that Woody will turn it around. Now it's like that thing you keep putting off and you try to forget about it. Really, he's acting like a scared little kid.

[Sothron]

Pete Babcock was fired primarily for making one bad head coach hire in Lon Kruger. If someone with a track record of actually, y'know, making the playoffs with two different eras of teams can be fired for one bad hire then Knight gets the same treatment. No excuses for Knight's sorry ass.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Quote:

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Pete Babcock was fired primarily for making one bad head coach hire in Lon Kruger. If someone with a track record of actually, y'know, making the playoffs with two different eras of teams can be fired for one bad hire then Knight gets the same treatment. No excuses for Knight's sorry ass.

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How about the fact that our record has improved every year in this rebuiliding era?

[Packfill]

Is going from historically terrible to bad really much of an accomplishment?

[Sothron]

Was that a joke? Please tell me it was a joke. A blind monkey missing arms and legs could do better than Knight.

[KB21]

I don't think so.

I think people mistake Mike Woodson being defensive minded with being half court oriented. Mike's philosophy has always been "Take care of the defense, and the offense will take care of itself." That's why you don't see many elaborate plays on offense.

I don't think he is pinned down to one offensive style or another.

Here's the thing about being an up tempo team. It does no good to play up tempo if you can't defend at that pace. Look at Memphis. They fired Mike Fratello because he wouldn't let the team run. About two weeks before he was fired, he was asked a question about why he doesn't let his team run. He said that his team cannot defend when they play up tempo. Well, Memphis has played an up and down the floor style since Mike Fratello left. They have also given up less than 100 points only 5 times since Mike was fired.

I agree that an up tempo style is what fits this team's talent better offensively. However, playing up tempo on offense means nothing if the team is not playing any defense. Based on what I've seen from this team, they don't defend well when they play up tempo.

[Packfill]

Well it is not like the team is winning games playing a slow half court game.

[KB21]

When it has been done in a very short period of time, yes. This is only the third year of the rebuilding process for Billy.

Some of you don't want to face the fact that when this rebuilding started, this team was at the same stage as the Charlotte Bobcats, with the exception that the Hawks didn't have the expansion draft to add players to their team.

Within one year, the Hawks turned over 100% of their roster from the 2003 season, and before the 2004 season started, the Hawks had exactly two players remaining from that 2003 team. Within one year, both of them were gone.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If Billy Knight is fired at some point before seeing this thing through, then the next GM will inherit a windfall of talent and will win largely because the talent that Billy has put into place will finally be "of age".

[KB21]

They are winning them a lot more than the Memphis Grizzlies are.

[Packfill]

What windfall of talent? The Hawks currently only have two players (JJ and Smoove) who could be considered bona fide quality starters and three other players (Chill, Marvin and Zaza) who could be considered passable starters or solid back-ups. The rest of the roster is development projects or reclamation projects.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

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I agree that an up tempo style is what fits this team's talent better offensively. However, playing up tempo on offense means nothing if the team is not playing any defense. Based on what I've seen from this team, they don't defend well when they play up tempo.

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Either hiring the wrong coach for his player ideology or drafting the wrong players for his coahing preference.

You are blaming the players here. Frankly, it's all you are left with given you won't hold BK or Woody responsible for anything. You are walking a dangerous, treasonous line. You always have. Your support of BK has already made you undermine yourself and cost you your integrity repeatedly. Next target: the players. You are one scary pseuod-med. student.

W

[Sothron]

I'm sure every GM in the league is scratching his head bemoaning the fact he doesn't have a Shellhead or Not So Speedy on his team.

Any GM taking over this team faces an uphill battle to fix the blackhole Knight has created of this franchise.

[DrReality]

Quote:

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Pete Babcock was fired primarily for making one bad head coach hire in Lon Kruger. If someone with a track record of actually, y'know, making the playoffs with two different eras of teams can be fired for one bad hire then Knight gets the same treatment. No excuses for Knight's sorry ass.

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That's not true. He made a SERIES OF TERRIBLE DECISIONS. But if we did get rid of Woody and even BK, who could we get to come here when the ownership is FUBAR? No one in their right mind would take this job unless they were desperate. Even if they did a great job if the court battle gave Belkin the reins, they'd be out of a job. The problems run much deeper than Woody and BK. It's the indecision that keeps us in pergatory.

[Sothron]

Babcock's worst decision in that era was hiring Kruger and when he hired him he said many times, both in public and private, that Kruger's hire was a make or break decision for his tenure as general manager. Sadly it was a break.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

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Babcock's worst decision in that era was hiring Kruger and when he hired him he said many times, both in public and private, that Kruger's hire was a make or break decision for his tenure as general manager. Sadly it was a break.

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Not that Tom has done much since but if we were going the college route I would have liked to see him FAR more than Kreuger. I frankly don't remember us interviewing an existing professional head coach at that point.

W

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

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I don't think so.

I think people mistake Mike Woodson being defensive minded with being half court oriented. Mike's philosophy has always been "Take care of the defense, and the offense will take care of itself." That's why you don't see many elaborate plays on offense.

I don't think he is pinned down to one offensive style or another.

Here's the thing about being an up tempo team. It does no good to play up tempo if you can't defend at that pace. Look at Memphis. They fired Mike Fratello because he wouldn't let the team run. About two weeks before he was fired, he was asked a question about why he doesn't let his team run. He said that his team cannot defend when they play up tempo. Well, Memphis has played an up and down the floor style since Mike Fratello left. They have also given up less than 100 points only 5 times since Mike was fired.

I agree that an up tempo style is what fits this team's talent better offensively. However, playing up tempo on offense means nothing if the team is not playing any defense. Based on what I've seen from this team, they don't defend well when they play up tempo.

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The Hawks can't defend either way. In the half court or running game. Woodson doesn't adjust to the players and that's the problem. My freakin dad has watched a game or two with me and he knows nothing about basketball and even he can see the team is more effective when the team runs.

I can see part of your point here as it does make some sense, but I still think the Hawks have a better shot of winning playing uptempo. They beat the Kings and Suns and get blown out by the Spurs, Mavs, or the Heat.

[Diesel]

Actually, in the conversation, when they were talking about offensive style, they were talking more about Herb Brown who preaches the half court offense.

Woody's coaching is dangerous also. You can't rely on the offense to take care of itself with young players.

I won't be surprised if a veteran coach is brought in during the summer... and it will look like BK has been planning this for a while!