Does Oden Have Any Heart At All...?

[Johnnybravo4]

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I would just love to see guys like Charles Barkley and all the guys bad mouthing Atlanta for years look up and see us with this starting 5!

1.Smoove

2.Marvin

3.Oden

4.JJ

5.Conoly

Imagine all the nay sayers looking at the standings saying where the h$ll did the Hawks come from. Then in the playoffs rolling thorugh teams like butter and being the new FACE OF THE NBA YOUR ATLANTA HAWKS, insteado f the lowly franchise we have now.We would just thumb teams although it would take a couple of years for guys to develop. Smoove and Marvin don't have an outside shot so outside perimeter shooting would be needed but we would own the boards and JJ could fill it up from outside.Usually your small forwards is going to be an outside threat whether thats marvin or smoove right now they don't have an outside game. Anyway you get my drift it sure would be fun to be a Hawks fan!

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With that lineup we should do at least what Toronto did this year. Hell we should have done what Toronto did this year.

[thesheedera]

I think part of the issue is that the Oden haters are responding to the Oden hypers that ahve already determined that Oden is in a group with Shaq, Russell, Wilt, etc. Which is beyond ridiculous, unfair to him, and completely speculative at this point.

For him to be a great prospect, all he really needs to be is one of the best centers of HIS time. Which I ahve no doubt he will be. As long as he plays I have a feeling he will be as good or better than pretty much any center he plays against. Will he better than Bill Russell??? I have no idea! If he's on my team, I just want to make sure he's stopping guys like Okafor, an aging Shaq, Jermaine Oneal, Eddy Curry, Andrew Bynum, Zlgaskus (fully aware that;s mispelled) Dwight Howard, etc. etc. I hope he can score on them as well, but if he at least stops them defensively, and keeps other teams from driving at will he changes every single game he plays in for the better.

I think it's gonna be Yao and Oden as the elite centers, and then the rest of the field. I would be plenty happy with that!

[vdunkndunk]

I've seen Amare and Dwight and now Oden in person, and I still don't think that, athletically speaking, Oden is quite on the same level as those guys in terms of pure leaping ability, explosiveness, and quickness. Don't get me wrong, Oden is close to those guys athletically, but I'd still say he's a teir below them.

BUT, just like Tim Duncan (who also isn't quite as athletic as Amare or Dwight), Oden is a whole lot taller and longer and stronger than almost anyone in the league, including Amare and Dwight, and he will be a far greater force on defense than either of those guys. I also think Oden has a chance to be a better back to the basket scorer than either guy, although Amare will probably remain the more prolific scorer as long as he's playing in Phoenix.

To me, the main thing to love about Oden is (1) he's a classic center rather than a PF like Amare and Howard, (2) he WANTS to be a classic center and do center things, like block shots and score with his back to the basket and bang in the post and dominate the paint defensively, and (3) he will be bigger, stronger, longer, and more athletic than almost every center in the NBA, and he will be better in two out of three of those categories every time. That's what's going to make him a dominate center, and defense is the area where he's really going to shine.

The one thing that still bothers me a little bit about Oden, though, despite a nice showing with (I think) 11 rebounds last night, is this: he just doesn't seem to dominate the boards in the way you'd expect. Basically, he's very solid in that area, but not spectacular. Right now I'd project him to get around 9-10 rebounds a night in the NBA for his first couple of seasons, which we could definitely use and it's not bad necessarily.

It's just that I'm not sure if he'll be a KG or Ben Wallace type of rebounding machine that I thought he would. (In his defense, though, he has seemed to pick it up in that area after getting in better shape over the course of the season.) But I still thought there was some rebounds that he could have had if he was either more agressive or had better instincts for the boards.

[thesheedera]

One thing about the rebounds is that whle he doesn't always get them, a lot of times he's the reason why a teammate gets them. He's huge and long and he boxes out well, and clears out a ton of space for his teammates.

As a physical presence alone he makes life nearly impossible for opposing big men to deal with.

He's not the athletic freak that Amare and Dwight are, but his mass more than makes up for that.

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he will be bigger, stronger, longer, and more athletic than almost every center in the NBA, and he will be better in two out of three of those categories every time. That's what's going to make him a dominate center, and defense is the area where he's really going to shine.

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Well said.

It's the Shaq effect all over again. He's not as big as Shaq and probably never will be, but he's gonna be bigger than all the athletic guys amd more athletic than all the really big guys he plays against. He just has a physical advantage that covers up a ton of potential weaknesses. Its a combination of strength/size and agility that very few guys have. Not the biggest, not the quickest, not the most coordinated, but a rare blend of all of those things.

He doesn't hunger after rebounds like Rodman of course, but he still gets them, and when the stakes are raised, you hope he'll have that hunger. He looked like he did last night until he ran out of gas. 38 minutes! Hell of an effort.

[Sothron]

The way he plays defense alone is worth the number one pick. Florida players were scared to even TRY to score on the inside with Oden in the game. And when they did challenge him he stuffed it back in their faces. That one kid who tried to dunk on Oden in the first half got his shot blocked and he crumbled up like a piece of paper after he hit Oden's body. It was hilarious. Like watching a toddler run into an adult. Just imagine that defensive intensity and dominance as a Hawk. My God...

[bfwolf]

And that kid was Corey Brewer, who's likely a late lottery pick in this draft.

Oden was amazing. I still love Durant, but now I've got those guys as 1a and 1b rather than having Durant above Oden on my Big Board.

[hawkman]

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The way he plays defense alone is worth the number one pick. Florida players were scared to even TRY to score on the inside with Oden in the game. And when they did challenge him he stuffed it back in their faces. That one kid who tried to dunk on Oden in the first half got his shot blocked and he crumbled up like a piece of paper after he hit Oden's body. It was hilarious. Like watching a toddler run into an adult. Just imagine that defensive intensity and dominance as a Hawk. My God...

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Indeed. The guy is a monster on defense and is very capable of dominating offensively in the NBA. This the player the Hawks need RIGHT NOW. Things have looked pretty hopeless for this franchise for the past few years. If you believe in conspiracy theories, Atlanta is due for a little help. For some strange reason, I can see us getting the #1 pick this year. Oden would reinvigorate this franchise and bring NBA basketball "back" in the ATL. Maybe we could finally get some games played on national TV for a change.

[DJlaysitup]

After watching Oden last night, I can't imagine Boston, Memphis, or Milwaukee trying to win another this year.

They will - especially since they may still have games against each other (I haven't checked their scheds)...but there might be some near comical 'tanks' these last few games.

[Diesel]

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The way he plays defense alone is worth the number one pick. Florida players were scared to even TRY to score on the inside with Oden in the game.

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While I was watching the game, I watched good coaching. They did to Oden what Utah would do to Shaq. Halfcourt set, High Post Screen and dare Oden to come out. Oden never did.. so UFA would just Kill OSU with Midrange Jumpers and also they were hitting the three pointers... Joakim got into early foul trouble, but the plan still worked to perfection. I'm sure Jerry Sloan was watching the game smiling somewhere.

That's not to say that Oden is not a good defensive player, I'm just saying that UF didn't gameplan to score inside. They gave him respect (except that #32 guy).. I don't remember 32's name but he looked like he said "I can take Oden" and he proceeded to try on several occassions to go strong at Oden. Oden sent him away a few times, but he did manage to get a few scores on Oden too.

The real question is what kind of pro will Oden be? Like I have said before, because of his offense, I think Noah and Hibbert will start off as better pros than Oden. It will be up to Oden to develop some areas of his game.. But if he develops them, he can be the most dominant player in basketball. If he doesn't, he'll be in line with a healthy Okafor (and that's not bad).

[vdunkndunk]

Imagine Greg Oden and Josh Smith together...basically no one would get a layup against us again.

[Sothron]

Yes, Heavy D, I watched the game. How else would I know that one Florida kid, Brewer someone said, got absolutely demolished when he foolishly tried to dunk on Oden?

Florida's attempts to score inside were denied. They had to rely on their jump shooting to win. Which is taking a huge risk as anyone who watches basketball games knows. If you have no interior game at all then you better hit around 50% from 3 point land like Florida did in that game. But you can't depend on that.

OTOH you CAN depend on an intimidating shotblocker to scare the **** out of people and keep them out of the lane attempting jump shots. We had that once here. With Oden we'd have it again.

[Diesel]

I think our gameplan would be a bit different with Oden. We'd have 2 defensive shot blockers...

However, don't we have that now? If we'd only give Solomon Jones a chance, we wouldn't be crying so much about Oden.

Oden dominates the college ranks, but again, if he doesn't develop a consistent offense to go with his defense, he will be a good defender, but he's not going to be a guy who single handedly makes his team championship calibre.

[HawksFan87]

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I think our gameplan would be a bit different with Oden. We'd have 2 defensive shot blockers...

However, don't we have that now? If we'd only give Solomon Jones a chance, we wouldn't be crying so much about Oden.

Oden dominates the college ranks, but again, if he doesn't develop a consistent offense to go with his defense, he will be a good defender, but he's not going to be a guy who single handedly makes his team championship calibre.

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You Are Funny There is no way in hell Noah or The Hibbert Guy will ever be the type of player Oden is now and will be in the NBA . Noah is not even worth a top 3 pick right now.....

[Diesel]

I would say that Okafor had probably a more dominant senior year as Oden.. Okafor never became an offensive force and guys like Howard has passed him... and even when Okafor is healthy, he's not able to guarantee victory by being out there.

Oden has been getting comparisons to Shaq and really, that's the only thing that is totally laughable on this board. Shaq had a very good offensive game in college. Oden does not.

Right now, if all parties were to come out, Noah and Hibbert would make a bigger impact than Oden right away because these guys know how to score and play offense. That's aside from being good defenders. Oden can be a great defender, but if he doesn't put an offensive game with that, he will be more like Deke and less like Shaq.

[thesheedera]

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I would say that Okafor had probably a more dominant senior year as Oden..

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I agree that Okafor's senior year was as and probably more dominant than Oden's season this year...but let's not forget that Okafor was a senior and Oden is a freshman.

Conventional wisdom tells us that big men take much longer to develop than guards and forwards, and though I typically am skeptical about most things considered "conventional wisdom", in the case of big man development, it almost certainly holds true.

Okafor was such a special player because he went from being a long shot project to being the best big man in college, a dominator on one end and a dependable player on the other.

Isn't it noteworthy that you're comparing a 4 year player's senior season to a one and done freshman player? A four eyar player who was the MOP in the tournament on the national championship team, the Big East POY, the National Defensive player of the year, the second overall draft pick in the ensuing draft, and teh NBA rookie of the year the following year.

The fact that we can honestly compare that player's senior's senior season to Oden's freshman season is in an of itself remarkable.

When you also consider that Oden's all around game is clearly more polished than Okafor's as a freshman, and especially that he's 2 inches taller and has a frame capable of adding a whole lot more weight, not to mention that the extent of his injury history is an isolated event with his right hand rather than a cronic back problem, then I'm pretty convinced that a "healthy Okafor" as a pro is about the worst case scenario I expect for Oden.

I have no illusions of this guy being a Russell/Shaq/Wilt/Hakeem level player, but I don't think he needs to be to warrant the #1 pick in the draft.

[Sothron]

Did YOU watch the game Diesel? Oden was killing those people on offense. He was dunking over them or kissing it off the close at close range. None of them could stop him. I think Oden answered any questions about his offense last night. He is a classic back to the basket low post scorer and we haven't had that on this team since SAR and Oden has about 3 inches on SAR and twenty pounds.

Pairing up Oden and Smoove would mean about 5 blocks a game easy between them. Smoove is a natural at help defense blocking and having Oden there to be the primary defense in the low post already...oh man. Its almost criminal to think about them together.

[thesheedera]

And at least 3 of Oden's missed shots almost dropped in, as well as a few fouls before he got the chance to finish, which would have been scores.

I agree that one night doesn't prove anything in the long run, but when he's been clear of foul trouble he's been a very good offensive player, and an absolutely excellent defensive player.

[exodus]

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Oden has been getting comparisons to Shaq and really, that's the only thing that is totally laughable on this board. Shaq had a very good offensive game in college. Oden does not.

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Shaq averaged 14 ppg as a freshman. Oden averaged 15.7 ppg this year playing most of the year with one hand.

What is laughable is comparing Shelden to friggin Karl Malone. That is possibly the dumbest comparison i have ever seen on this board.

[chillzatl]

Noah is smoke and mirrors. He'll never have the strength to do at the pro level what he does in college. Oden will make more of an impact immediately than Noah will in two years time.

[Diesel]

The only real question is do you think what Oden does Sparadically will translate in the pros?

If you can answer yes, then obviously, we're watching two different things. Moreover, like I said about Okafor, Okafor had good offensive games in college. However, Okafor's sparadic offense didn't translate.

Before we hear another dull lecture on the difference between a freshman and a senior, let me first say: That's not the point. The point is translation. IF you come to the NBA with a sparadic offense and you don't work on it, it really doesn't matter what your classification is, it won't translate.