Woody has directly injured TWO of our best players

[DJlaysitup]

Yeah Chillz...I think that's more logical. Plus, if I'm a guy like JC I would be crazy not to want all the playing time I could get and to actively lobby for it.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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it's probably more realistic to say that he's playing them because they are core pieces of the future of this team and they still aren't a good, cohesive team. They need the time on the floor together. Playing marginal talents that may or may not even be around next year doesn't do anything to help the team as a team.

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There is no way you can say this is a long term move.

When you give Smoove that many minutes when he's hurt, I don't care how young he is, that's wearing him down.

If he truly wanted to prepare for the future he would take players out of his doghouse like Salim and Solomon.

Josh has become a 20/10 guy without JJ. Clearly he has blossomed this year and yes a lot of that has to do with getting some good minutes.

But with that said if he's truly hurt, there is no reason why he should be playing over a healthy marvin, Solomon, Este, or Salim who need all the minutes they can get because they are a lot further behind than Smoove in developing.

Solomon has to learn how to catch a basketball. I think with a player that raw, he needs to see the court.

[AHF]

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it's probably more realistic to say that he's playing them because they are core pieces of the future of this team and they still aren't a good, cohesive team. They need the time on the floor together. Playing marginal talents that may or may not even be around next year doesn't do anything to help the team as a team.

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What good does playing someone 45 minutes in a game do for developing a cohesive team as compared to 38 minutes a game?

Woodson's use of the bench (or lack thereof) reminds me of Dusty Baker burning out pitchers as manager of the Cubs.

Plus, guys will be more productive with 10 minutes or more of rest during the game.

[Swatguy]

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it's probably more realistic to say that he's playing them because they are core pieces of the future of this team and they still aren't a good, cohesive team. They need the time on the floor together. Playing marginal talents that may or may not even be around next year doesn't do anything to help the team as a team.

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Without a doubt. Also, people do not realize, tanking is not only lacking in integrity but the league will not allow it. Can you imagine the fines levied on a team tanking? Even more importantly, Las Vegas cannot allow such. Tanking is cheating period. The Tanking thought is dumb against the rules and dishonest.

[AHF]

(1) Teams tank every year in the NBA and it is allowed as long as done with the type of 'wink-wink' attitude that goes on every year.

(2) In Woody's defense on this thread, there are players every year who get a ton of burn and don't get injured so it is probably not as bad as the Cubs analogy I made. (See Kobe Bryant, etc.) I still don't see the justification for as many minutes as our key guys (minus Zaza and Marvin whose workloads have not spun out of control) have gotten.

[coachx]

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Don't understand why you are so upset. You are a pro tanker and this just increases our chances of a better pick.

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Walts is alwayse upset. He was born upset, goes to bed upset, and wakes up upset. Poor Walt, I think he needs a hug. (sarcastic but true ?)

Unfortunatley there is no worth while news in Hawks and land until the lottery where we will win the 1st and 11th pick. Oh, I just woke up and I'm wet all over !

[Guest Walter]

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you play to win the games, period.

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(snicker)

You play to win championships, not games. Regardless, at least your successful at looking foolish...no smarts-tanking needed.

Now that we got that rhetoric out of the way...

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You don't act like a loser and not play guys becuase they MIGHT get hurt. Should they also not practice because they MIGHT get hurt? Should they not drive their cars because they MIGHT have a wreck? No, you play to win.

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What does any of this "you don't act like a loser" emesis have to do with my position? Get a hold of yourself?!?

Childress is a 25 MPG player with a chronic history of foot fxs and a foot fracture "healed" only 3 months ago. When the games DON'T MATTER you almost DOUBLE HIS MPG! JC was playing MORE THAN FOURTY THREE MPG the last 3 weeks! What would any reasonably intelligent individual think might happen to that already proven, OVER-STRESSED foot recently fractured when it was subject to nearly twice the amount of stress in games? Do you need it to be multiple choice? Maybe true/false?

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It's good to see that you've found one more thing to whine about. I wasn't sure you could be so versatile.

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Chillz, for awhile you've offered nothing to this forum but unwarranted criticisms of posters. You're an uninspired, tired, out of pitch, one-note song. At least my one note tune relates to the Hawks, is in tune, and more and more people are finally catching themselves humming it.

Frankly, I can't remember the last time you were right about anything.

W

[Guest Walter]

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wearing down professional athletes by actually playing them.... LOL.

This isn't a team for the sake of one or two players and Josh Smith isn't so good or so consistant that he doesn't need as much time as he can get. We need to develop as a team and to do so we need to play our key players as much as we can. Playing a junk baller like Salim big minutes does nothing for this team.

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...and have worked with professional athletes in their offseason and in rehab. I've consulted with several athletes in the same predicament as Childress was in. One guy a WCU player, following his 2nd similar foot fx, was "cleared" by physicians and due to an injury to another player was rushed into practice and his MPG were doubled. I'm not kidding. Almost the same scenario. BU needed to be a starter, 2 prior foot fractures (although both of his were within one year), "cleared" by Drs., coach double stress on player...Foot fractures get mishandled more than the lay person might think.

2 weeks later he had severely broken his foot and the his career was in jeopardy. He had TWO pins placed and while he did play again the next season, he was never the same. WCU doesn't have alot to play for usually, but they did have a tourney (the reason he was pushed to play sooner and more). We don't even have that to play for. In fact, we have a lottery to lose for.

Childress may have had 3 months between being "cleared" and this reinjury, but the circumstances are the same. Doctors "clear" you to return to your previous activity level, not more. If I was a hiker and I get cleared following my foot fracture and decide I want to be an ultra-distance runner...I can expect my foot to break and I cannot hold my physician responsible. Same here. This is on the coach. You take a stress-injured player and double the stress, expect a repeated stress injury. How simple is that.

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Frankly, Chillz, I can't recall you being right about anything regarding this team in years. You post incorrectly against other posters frequently but offer nothing else but hateful, inaccurate, rhetoric. You must be upset like the majority of the rest of us, but it appears you project it where it doesn't belong and have lost your ability to critically think because of your pent up anger. Consider reevaluating your Hawk world view. A paradigm shift is in order.

[chillzatl]

It's just that simple. I don't even have to discuss the loser mentality that you obviously have. It's easy for a troll to sit in his daddy's basement and shovel out his hindsight opinions the way you do and that's all this is, your opinion. You dare tell me that you can't remember the last time I was right about anything..... In case you forgot, this is a forum of opinions. I must have missed the memo where you took over the "My words are fact" role from Diesel.

You're a talker, not a doer. It doesn't surprise me that you can't wrap your brain around the concept of wanting to compete, even though you're not playing to win anything. You don't sit there and not do what you love because you MIGHT get hurt. Well, You might, but most athletes have a competitive fire in them and when they're cleared to play, they want to play. They don't worry about what MIGHT happen. If they feel good and they can play, most of them are going to play. I'm quite confident that neither Childress nor his teammates have secretly blamed the organization for playing him too many minutes. I could just call him and ask, to be safe..

As I said, this is a forum of opinions and I am free to give mine any time I see fit. If you can't handle that, leave (yah right), or show that you're something more than a common troll.

[chillzatl]

I would love to know where your practice is... if it exists at all. Please share this info with us all so that you can lend some credibility to your posts. While you're at it, give us the names of some of these athletes that you've consulted with. Maybe you could ask them to explain how the desire to compete actually works..

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Frankly, Chillz, I can't recall you being right about anything regarding this team in years. You post incorrectly against other posters frequently but offer nothing else but hateful, inaccurate, rhetoric. You must be upset like the majority of the rest of us, but it appears you project it where it doesn't belong and have lost your ability to critically think because of your pent up anger. Consider reevaluating your Hawk world view. A paradigm shift is in order.

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That's just funny.. Mr. Broken Record dares to talk who is right and who is wrong on a forum of opinions.... classic.

[TroyMcClure]

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You don't sit there and not do what you love because you MIGHT get hurt. Well, You might, but most athletes have a competitive fire in them and when they're cleared to play, they want to play. They don't worry about what MIGHT happen. If they feel good and they can play, most of them are going to play. I'm quite confident that neither Childress nor his teammates have secretly blamed the organization for playing him too many minutes.

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Bobby would not have played him. When Jeff Porter tells Bobby someone is good to go, what does he do? He usually gives it a few more days. It doesn't really matter if Childress wants to play or not. Woody should not have played him. It's that simple. Woody was trying to scrape out a few w's to save his job. Pathetic, isn't it?

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I'm quite confident that neither Childress nor his teammates have secretly blamed the organization for playing him too many minutes.

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That's because they are mostly young kids. What could they possibly know about running a pro sports franchise? Or how too get the most out of 12-15 players over a year's time?

[chillzatl]

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Bobby would not have played him. When jeff Porter tells Bobby someone is good to go, what does he do? He usually gives it a few more days. It doesn't really matter if Childress wants to play or not. Woody should not have played him. It's that simple. Woody was trying to scrape out a few w's to save his job. Pathetic, isn't it?

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Bobby played chipper in spring training after chipper rolled his ankle simply because Chipper said "I'm fine and I want to play". Despite most media sources saying he wouldn't play and would be kept out for precautionary reasons. Does that make Bobby a bad manager?

I'm pretty sure that Woodson knew that it was in his best interest to not win games, rather than pick up 2-3 extra. He's building a team here and to do that you need to play your core players, even in meaningless games.

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That's because they are mostly young kids. What could they possibly know about running a pro sports franchise? Or how too get the most out of 12-15 players over a year's time?

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What does their age or running a sports franchise have to do with them being incapable of blaming someone if they feel it's warranted?

[Guest Walter]

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It's just that simple. I don't even have to discuss the loser mentality that you obviously have. It's easy for a troll to sit in his daddy's basement and shovel out his hindsight opinions the way you do and that's all this is, your opinion. You dare tell me that you can't remember the last time I was right about anything.....

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Yes, Mr. scary man. I "dare" to tell you. I cannot recall the last time you were right about anything Hawk-related.

BTW, Please tell me exactly what of mine are "hindsight opinions". Should be easy enough, right.

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In case you forgot, this is a forum of opinions. I must have missed the memo where you took over the "My words are fact" role from Diesel.

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Chillz, when was the last time your Hawk-related opinion was right?

Lately, all you've been doing is insulting posters.

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You're a talker, not a doer.

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Who the [censored] do you think you are?!?! You don't know [censored] about me. Truth is you are guilty of talking about me in the same way you accuse me of talking about the team.

What a prick you are. A complete prick. I didn't get to where I am today without doing. I've made a living as a musician, have 2 bachelors, a masters degree, a professional job, a fiance, hiked half the AT, & am currently inventing (just finished my 2nd prototype) a walker attachment (you can ask AHF). What an arrogant prick you are.

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It doesn't surprise me that you can't wrap your brain around the concept of wanting to compete, even though you're not playing to win anything. You don't sit there and not do what you love because you MIGHT get hurt. Well, You might, but most athletes have a competitive fire in them and when they're cleared to play, they want to play. They don't worry about what MIGHT happen. If they feel good and they can play, most of them are going to play. I'm quite confident that neither Childress nor his teammates have secretly blamed the organization for playing him too many minutes.

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You're smarter than all that I hope. Obviously, your simpleton approach worked out real well for JJ and JC. When a player has a recent history of STRESS injuries and one doubles the STRESS (MPG) on that player despite there being no chance of team success, it's "competing" now possibly at the expense or a career and certainly at the risk of competing later. It doesn't surprise me that you can't wrap your brain around the concept of...well anything after your pathetic displays.

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As I said, this is a forum of opinions and I am free to give mine any time I see fit. If you can't handle that, leave (yah right), or show that you're something more than a common troll.

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When have I said you couldn't? Never. I just said that I can't recall them being right for as long as I can remember. I can handle you being wrong just fine. Consistantly hateful? I can handle that too. As far as trolls go, your the most hateful, common one around.

W

[TroyMcClure]

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What does their age or running a sports franchise have to do with them being incapable of blaming someone if they feel it's warranted?

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Because their critical thinking closes the door after "do you think you can play, Josh?" The're opinion on this matter is irrelevalt in my opinion.

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Bobby played chipper in spring training after chipper rolled his ankle simply because Chipper said "I'm fine and I want to play". Despite most media sources saying he wouldn't play and would be kept out for precautionary reasons. Does that make Bobby a bad manager?

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Larry is a grown man. A rolled ankle and a foot fracture are two totally different things. I guarantee Bobby would not let him play a spring training game with an oblique injury. If you would care to remember, Bobby has kept Chip out of MANY, MANY, games the last few years because he was not 100%. Not to mention countless other players.

The point is, it is Woodson and BK's decision. They made the wrong one, as usual.

[Guest Walter]

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It doesn't really matter if Childress wants to play or not. Woody should not have played him. It's that simple. Woody was trying to scrape out a few w's to save his job. Pathetic, isn't it?

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I don't have a problem with playing Childress the same many MPG for the season as he was playing prior to the injury. Doctors "clear" players for the return to their prior level of funtion or anticipated level of work. NO doctor could anticipate a player playing 43+ MPG, especially going from 25 to 43 MPG. Frankly, 43+ MPG could stress fracture ANYBODY'S foot. You shouldn't do that under any circumstance, much less 8 games out with 9 to play. JUST CRAZY! To defend it on moralistic or competitive grounds is amoral and career threatening if not resulting in a long-term competitive disadvantage for us.

Woody also played JJ OVER 40 MPG 9 of the last 10 and 16 of the last 18 games, including 46 minutes the game after he got kicked in the calf in practice. That is definately pathetic.

This definately boiled down to Woody's verses Childress' career and both are losing thanks to Woody.

W

[chillzatl]

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BTW, Please tell me exactly what of mine are "hindsight opinions". Should be easy enough, right.

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Be a man. All you do around here is wait for someone to do something then you pop up full of theories on how it should and could have been done differently. It's been that way for years.

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Lately, all you've been doing is insulting posters.

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No. I don't insult posters and I don't go out of my way to insult you. It just works out that your anonymous internet persona is one that I find to be, for lack of a better phrase, a candy ass. It's entirely possible that you do act like a man in your "real" life, but I wouldn't know it by the way you act and talk around here. The picture you paint of yourself here is one of the consummate second guesser and "let me tell you" guy and I have a hard time tolerating that personality type.

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What a [censored] you are. A complete [censored]. I didn't get to where I am today without doing. I've made a living as a musician, have 2 bachelors, a masters degree, a professional job, a fiance, hiked half the AT, & am currently inventing (just finished my 2nd prototype) a walker attachment (you can ask AHF). What an arrogant [censored] you are.

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So maybe you are a man in the real world. It doesn't change the fact that despite all these life accomplishments, you still act like a jackass around here time and time again. Truth be told, this is what happens when people wrap themselves in the anonymity of the internet. I go months without posting around here yet when I come back all I see are post after post of Walter going out of his way to get under someones skin.

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When have I said you couldn't? Never. I just said that I can't recall them being right for as long as I can remember. I can handle you being wrong just fine. Consistantly hateful? I can handle that too. As far as trolls go, your the most hateful, common one around.

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You didn't and you couldn't, but you're the one that pretends that your opinions are RIGHT, and mine, somehow, are wrong. Who's the arrogant ass?

[Guest Walter]

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Bobby played chipper in spring training after chipper rolled his ankle simply because Chipper said "I'm fine and I want to play". Despite most media sources saying he wouldn't play and would be kept out for precautionary reasons. Does that make Bobby a bad manager?

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If it repeatedly came back to bite him, twice in three weeks, I'd say definately. It would mean his judgement as a manager was way off.

BTW, ankle sprains aren't foot fractures and while Chipper may have played some (certainly not much in a spring game anyhow), the toll on the lower half of the body in baseball can be somewhat controlled (you know which way you run the bases, not which way your man is going to dribble) and in no way is equivalent to 46 minutes or an average of 43 minutes per game of basketball.

My problem isn't with Childress playing. He should have been. Just not consistently DOUBLE the STRESS in terms of MPG. Inexcusable.

W

[chillzatl]

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Because their critical thinking closes the door after "do you think you can play, Josh?" The're opinion on this matter is irrelevalt in my opinion.

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The point is that few athletes, at least most that aren't considered fragile, are going to hesitate to play the game the way they've done so their entire lives if they've been cleared to play and they feel like they can play. It's not as if anyone is taking their opinions ahead of the doctors. Do you really think that Childress wouldn't speak up if he felt he was being pushed harder than he should be? He, and the doctors, obviously felt he was capable of doing what he was being asked to do.

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Larry is a grown man. A rolled ankle and a foot fracture are two totally different things. I guarantee Bobby would not let him play a spring training game with an oblique injury. If you would care to remember, Bobby has kept Chip out of MANY, MANY, games the last few years because he was not 100%. Not to mention countless other players.

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Would you be so understanding in that situation if he had rolled his ankle again and was forced to miss real games? Would the blame then shift to Bobby for not being extra cautious?

the point is that players want to play and if they're cleared to play, most will play the game the way they always have and they don't worry about what might happen.

[chillzatl]

again, you're putting your OPINION up against the reality of sports. Few athletes are going to play the game any differently after an injury when they've been cleared to play and they feel healthy. It happens all the time in sports and many times the players never suffer for it. It's easy to second guess a decision that few coaches would have made any differently. Especially on a team that needs teamwork as much as it needs talent.

[AHF]

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Because their critical thinking closes the door after "do you think you can play, Josh?" The're opinion on this matter is irrelevalt in my opinion.

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The point is that few athletes, at least most that aren't considered fragile, are going to hesitate to play the game the way they've done so their entire lives if they've been cleared to play and they feel like they can play. It's not as if anyone is taking their opinions ahead of the doctors. Do you really think that Childress wouldn't speak up if he felt he was being pushed harder than he should be? He, and the doctors, obviously felt he was capable of doing what he was being asked to do.

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I agree that athletes don't have the big picture judgment to make this call. That is why they are not responsible for the minutes they play - that falls on the coaching staff.

In fact, Childress admitted in the paper that he felt pain in his foot over a week ago and simply decided to play through the pain.

I just don't understand why Woodson would play our young guys this many minutes. Get them plenty of minutes 30+ but don't run them into the ground.