If we get the #1 pick in the draft........

[Swatguy]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Oden, I believe, will be as good defensively (better shot blocking...maybe not quite as much rebounding). The difference is that he seems to have a post game developing that could make him a go-to option.

Because of the fact that Oden is a true C, a better shot-blocker, and most likely a better scorer, I could not trade him for Howard.

---

Exactly. If i am going to pay someone $87 million he needs to be more than just a great rebounder.

There is something else that bothers me about Howard that I can't really quatify. I just get the feeling that he just doesn't have the drive to be a great player. Josh Smiths drive is obvious watching him play. Even though he may never develop the skills to be truly great you can tell the drive is there. I don't get that impression from Howard.

---

Now that is laughable. I guess it doesn't show as Amare or Noah but it's in there. The guy has the drive. You don't add 40 lbs. of muscle in two years, up at 7 ever morning in the off-season conditioning when you don't have to (been doing it since high school). It impresses a lot of people. When Shaq is impressed, I laugh when you are not.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Oden, I believe, will be as good defensively (better shot blocking...maybe not quite as much rebounding). The difference is that he seems to have a post game developing that could make him a go-to option.

Because of the fact that Oden is a true C, a better shot-blocker, and most likely a better scorer, I could not trade him for Howard.

---

Exactly. If i am going to pay someone $87 million he needs to be more than just a great rebounder.

There is something else that bothers me about Howard that I can't really quatify. I just get the feeling that he just doesn't have the drive to be a great player. Josh Smiths drive is obvious watching him play. Even though he may never develop the skills to be truly great you can tell the drive is there. I don't get that impression from Howard.

---

Now that is laughable. I guess it doesn't show as Amare or Noah but it's in there. The guy has the drive. You don't add 40 lbs. of muscle in two years, up at 7 ever morning in the off-season conditioning when you don't have to (been doing it since high school). It impresses a lot of people. When Shaq is impressed, I laugh when you are not.

---

I guess you are laughing at Garnett too.

Funny how we have been dominated by opposing bigs all year, except for Howard. He has only averaged 14 ppg against us.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

Of course if you are content with scoring 17 ppg then i guess you don't have to improve on anything.

---

It's actually 17.5. Are you saying that Dwight won't improve his scoring by 2.5 points, EVER? He's 21, to even suggest that is laughable. On top of that, 20 and 12.5 with 2 blocks on 60% shooting is GREAT by any measure.

Quote:

---

Because you said Howard has improved his game in EVERY area

---

And he has, his ppg and rebounds have gone up every year, while his efficiency hasn't suffered.

Quote:

---

Shaq has been shooting turnaround jumpers in the post his whole career. Granted he is only about 10 feet away but he still shoots them and makes them at a far higher rate than Howard, who hasn't improved this area of his game AT ALL.

---

I would still like to see footage of this, if by that little hook he throws up you mean a 10 foot jumper, than ok. But again, Shaq played 3 years of college. Next year, Dwight will be the age of Shaq as a ROOKIE. To think Dwight won't improve his scoring by 2.5 ppg in his career is absolute insanity.

I wonder why you didn't address my other points.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

I wonder why you didn't address my other points.

---

You have missed the point entirely.

Dakast said that Howard had a 3 year advantage on Oden in terms of SKILLS

Quote:

---

Howard still has parts of his game that he needs to work on, but the fact is he's still three years ahead of Oden skill wise.

---

, which isn't true. Howards only skills are rebounding and dunking, which he had as a rookie.

You say Howard has improved in every area. his turnovers have gone from 2.65 to 3.9 in one year. Is that what you consider improvement? His foul shooting has gone from 67% as a rookie to 60% now? Is that improvement? He couldn't make a shot outside 5 feet as a rookie and still can't. is that improvement?

[AtLaS]

I didn't make that claim, but you do know that this is the first full season that Dwight is the goto option right? Turnovers usually result from that. Look at JJ. When Dwight gets help (like JJ and Smith also need), his turnovers will go down.

Quote:

---

Is that what you consider improvement?

---

So you ARE going out on that limb that Dwight will not improve his scoring by 2.5? I'll keep note of that.

[AtLaS]

Oh, BTW Howard's response of Garnett

Quote:

---

Howard was admittedly stunned by the critique. Said Howard: "I'm just 21 years old and I'm pretty sure

nobody my age has faced double teams the way I'm seeing them now.

The main thing is I know for me to reach the next level I have to keep working on my game. I'm just going to keep working hard and use these final (seven) games to show people a different Dwight than they've ever seen."

---

BTW Garnett was fuming when he made that quote, people often go overboard when frustrated.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

I didn't make that claim, but you do know that this is the first full season that Dwight is the goto option right? Turnovers usually result from that. Look at JJ.

---

JJ scored 25, not 17, and was also the primary ball handler.

You DID claim that he has improved in EVERY area, which is simply wrong.

Quote:

---

So you ARE going out on that limb that Dwight will not improve his scoring by 2.5? I'll keep note of that.

---

YOu know your argument is pathetic when you have to make stuff up and act like i said it.

[Swatguy]

Quote:

---

Oh, BTW Howard's response of Garnett

Quote:

---

Howard was admittedly stunned by the critique. Said Howard: "I'm just 21 years old and I'm pretty sure

nobody my age has faced double teams the way I'm seeing them now.

The main thing is I know for me to reach the next level I have to keep working on my game. I'm just going to keep working hard and use these final (seven) games to show people a different Dwight than they've ever seen."

---

BTW Garnett was fuming when he made that quote, people often go overboard when frustrated.

---

I missed Garnett's statements. What did he say?

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Oh, BTW Howard's response of Garnett

Quote:

---

Howard was admittedly stunned by the critique. Said Howard: "I'm just 21 years old and I'm pretty sure

nobody my age has faced double teams the way I'm seeing them now.

The main thing is I know for me to reach the next level I have to keep working on my game. I'm just going to keep working hard and use these final (seven) games to show people a different Dwight than they've ever seen."

---

BTW Garnett was fuming when he made that quote, people often go overboard when frustrated.

---

I missed Garnett's statements. What did he say?

---

LOL maybe you should try reading a thread before adding your 2 cents.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

JJ scored 25, not 17, and was also the primary ball handler.

---

JJ also shot 47%, Dwight 60. Dwight has the ball just as much as JJ does.

Quote:

---

You DID claim that he has improved in EVERY area, which is simply wrong.

---

Actually I didn't. This is what I said. "even though he's only 21 and has improved his numbers while not losing efficiency in every category, EVERY YEAR??"

Quote:

---

YOu know your argument is pathetic when you have to make stuff up and act like i said it.

---

Actually, you know your argument is pathetic when you can't even address half of my counterpoints to your points that you made earlier in the thread.

Quote:

---

YOu know your argument is pathetic when you have to make stuff up and act like i said it.

---

This is what you said.

"All he has going for him is size and athleticism. And i am not sold on the potential improvement of someone who has played a ton of minutes for 3 years and hasn't shown even marginal improvement in his basketball skills. "

So you aren't sold on his "potential improvement." A 2.5 ppg improvement puts him at 20 and 12.5 with 2 blocks on 60% shooting, which is simply put, GREAT. 2.5 ppg isn't a lot to be "sold" on.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

So you don't think he's going to improve over what he's putting up now, even though he's only 21 and has improved his numbers in every category, EVERY YEAR?? That's some serious n00bness.

---

Sad that you try to change your own quotes when they get proven wrong.

[AtLaS]

I actually did say it at a different point in the thread, so I combined them instead of posting 2 quotes. lmao I knew you'd find it.

But it still doesn't make the statement untrue.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

A 2.5 ppg improvement puts him at 20 and 12.5 with 2 blocks on 60% shooting, which is simply put, GREAT. 2.5 ppg isn't a lot to be "sold" on.

---

You said yourself that this was Howards first year as the go to guy and that he gets the ball every time down the floor. The result is an improvement of less than 2 ppg and skyrocketing turnovers.

And again we keep getting back to the skills, or lack thereoff. You keep pointing to numbers while refusing to address skills, which is what my original argument was about anyway.

You said yourself that Howard was probably the best physical specimen in the league. So why does he average only 17.5 ppg? it is his teamates fault of course.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

I actually did say it at a different point in the thread, so I combined them instead of posting 2 quotes. lmao I knew you'd find it.

But it still doesn't make the statement untrue.

---

More turnovers = more efficiency? sure

Just like shooting 60% from the line is more efficient than shooting 67% as a rookie.

No matter how many times you change your quote it is still wrong.

[Swatguy]

Big Ticket seems to be comparing Dwight to himself which is not fair. Dwight came into the league a year and a half younger than Garnett. Because Garnett has tried and cannot intimidate Dwight he criticizes. When have you read a player criticize another player in the league? The criticism seems personal.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Dwight came into the league a year and a half younger than Garnett.

---

LOL

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

More turnovers = more efficiency? sure

Just like shooting 60% from the line is more efficient than shooting 67% as a rookie.

---

Check the numbers, his total efficiency is better this season than last.

[Yeti]

This is all silly. Of course if we get the #1 pick we are NOT picking Oden. He is too tall, not versatile enough, and doesn't fit our style of play. BK will pick Jeff Green, Al Horford, or Durant. They are all 6'9" - and that is what really matters.

Seriously, it doesn't matter what pick we get if BK and Woody are still running things.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

More turnovers = more efficiency? sure

Just like shooting 60% from the line is more efficient than shooting 67% as a rookie.

---

Check the numbers, his total efficiency is better this season than last.

---

First it was.... Howard has improved in every category every year. Then... Howard has improved in every category while improving his efficiency every year. Now it is .... Howards total efficiency has improved every year ( no mention of categories).

You remind me of another poster who shall remain nameless.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

You said yourself that this was Howards first year as the go to guy and that he gets the ball every time down the floor. The result is an improvement of less than 2 ppg and skyrocketing turnovers.

And again we keep getting back to the skills, or lack thereoff. You keep pointing to numbers while refusing to address skills, which is what my original argument was about anyway.

You said yourself that Howard was probably the best physical specimen in the league.

So why does he average only 17.5 ppg?

it is his teamates fault of course.

---

Maybe because he's 21? He's constantly doubled? It's his first season as the goto option? He has no PG?

Whatever lack of skills you think he has, I'll take 17.5 and 12.3 on 60% any time.

To be "not sold" on the potential improvement of a 21 year old is fine. But improving by 2.5 ppg isn't much to expect. Getting to 20 and 12.5 is GREAT, period.