Could we aquire Barbosa?

[jjjohnson]

I think Hoffa would be good for us too!

Keep up the great ideas guys. In all seriousness, that's not a fair comparison to the one i originally suggested.

If I were a Suns fan, why would I come here to make these types of requests? It's not like what we say here has any correlation to what actually goes on the NBA.

So me suggesting this trade is not going to make it happen.

I guess my views are different. But before you bash me, at least acknowledge that I have supported my claim with evidence. I am a Hawks fan in all honesty.

[Seano]

I respect your viewpoints and believe that you *are* a Hawks fan (not that it matters either way), but to me as a Hawks fan, Smoove is just about untouchable. I believe he hasn't even begun to touch his full potential, much less reach his peak....and I would ask for both moon and stars above if we were ever to trade Smoove.

[TexasPete]

This thread is truly a stupid discussion. Smith for Barbosa? That just shows a lack of basic basketball understanding. Seriously.

You think Smith at 21 will be the same at 24? This guy will be an All Star starter. Barbosa? Good player, not great.

[jjjohnson]

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I respect your viewpoints and believe that you *are* a Hawks fan (not that it matters either way), but to me as a Hawks fan, Smoove is just about untouchable. I believe he hasn't even begun to touch his full potential, much less reach his peak....and I would ask for both moon and stars above if we were ever to trade Smoove.

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I remember talking to some Raptors fans, that felt really highly about Charlie Villanueva, and how he was going to be the next best thing. He got traded for TJ, and I think now they've forgotten all about him.

Smith is our most valuable asset, and since we suck, we may as well take that asset and find some nice pieces rather than build around him. He's not a franchise player that you build around. Marvin to me has more franchise type player talent; even JJ is a questionable franchise player, but he is too a better franchise player than Smith.

If we move Smith we can bring in the right pieces to surround that core of Williams and Johnson and possibly Childress. Smith is best suited in my opinion being a second or third option scorer, and a good help defender who cause havoc on the fast break.

Unfortunatley we do not have a system right now, and that is why Smith is just doing whatever he wants on offense.

We need to look at the overall picture, and that's winning. Something that is not happening right now. Our team has the flexibility to go out and make moves, and a change is definitely needed.

I would not at all be opposed to moving Smith, if we could get a PG and maybe a pick involved.

[jjjohnson]

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This thread is truly a stupid discussion. Smith for Barbosa? That just shows a lack of basic basketball understanding. Seriously.

You think Smith at 21 will be the same at 24? This guy will be an All Star starter. Barbosa? Good player, not great.

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Fine how about, Smith for Jose Calderon and Morris Peterson?

[TexasPete]

You can't be a Hawks fan and advocate a trade like that one. A backup PG and MoPete? Lets all just move along.

[jjjohnson]

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You can't be a Hawks fan and advocate a trade like that one. A backup PG and MoPete? Lets all just move along.

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I think Jose Calderon is a good PG! So what if he backsup? He wouldn't be the back up on our team now, and on many other teams too.

So then tell me who you think we can peel for Smith?

Because he has to be traded, this summer. Let go of the emotional relationship you have with players on a basketball team. To get talent you have to give up talent. And he is the perfect piece to move right now. His contract is not a big deal, and he is going to want to be extended next year.

[AtLaS]

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I think Jose Calderon is a good PG! So what if he backsup? He wouldn't be the back up on our team now, and on many other teams too.

So then tell me who you think we can peel for Smith?

Because he has to be traded, this summer. Let go of the emotional relationship you have with players on a basketball team. To get talent you have to give up talent. And he is the perfect piece to move right now. His contract is not a big deal, and he is going to want to be extended next year.

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He has to be traded? Marvin a better potential franchise player? These type of quotes suggest that you don't know a lot about basketball, trade value, nor this Hawks team.

Smith will not be traded to Toronto for anything outside of Chris Bosh, and personally I'm not sure I'd do that. Bosh is the better scorer but Smith is the better overall player, and he's still only 21.

Villenueva??? Smith is the better passer, playmaker, rebounder, defender, and shotblocker. The ONLY thing that Villenueva MIGHT be better than Smith in is scoring, and even THAT'S questionable. Plus he's injury prone.

Marvin does nothing except shoot. Quit judging him by the position in the draft that he was selected. He can't dribble, can't finish inside, can't pass, and can't post up. He has no body control nor a good grasp of the ball, which is why he always gets his lunch packed when he drives.

If we were to offer Smith for one of those deals you proposed, the Hawks would probably move to Vegas as we would lose every ounce of fan support that still remains. We would surpass those Clippers and Nuggets runs of bad teams.

Did Smith take your girlfriend in High School or something?

[thescout5]

Do you really want to deal with Phoenix again after the JJ trade? I think ownership wants to keep Smoove since he is local so I don't see this trade going down!

[jjjohnson]

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I think Jose Calderon is a good PG! So what if he backsup? He wouldn't be the back up on our team now, and on many other teams too.

So then tell me who you think we can peel for Smith?

Because he has to be traded, this summer. Let go of the emotional relationship you have with players on a basketball team. To get talent you have to give up talent. And he is the perfect piece to move right now. His contract is not a big deal, and he is going to want to be extended next year.

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He has to be traded? Marvin a better potential franchise player? These type of quotes suggest that you don't know a lot about basketball, trade value, nor this Hawks team.

Smith will not be traded to Toronto for anything outside of Chris Bosh, and personally I'm not sure I'd do that. Bosh is the better scorer but Smith is the better overall player, and he's still only 21.

Villenueva??? Smith is the better passer, playmaker, rebounder, defender, and shotblocker. The ONLY thing that Villenueva MIGHT be better than Smith in is scoring, and even THAT'S questionable. Plus he's injury prone.

Marvin does nothing except shoot. Quit judging him by the position in the draft that he was selected. He can't dribble, can't finish inside, can't pass, and can't post up. He has no body control nor a good grasp of the ball, which is why he always gets his lunch packed when he drives.

If we were to offer Smith for one of those deals you proposed, the Hawks would probably move to Vegas as we would lose every ounce of fan support that still remains. We would surpass those Clippers and Nuggets runs of bad teams.

Did Smith take your girlfriend in High School or something?

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You wouldn't trade Smith for Bosh? And you call me out for suggesting a trade that I think will make our team better.

And I never said I didn't like Smith either. I said I like him better than Williams, just that I think we could get more back for him. And that I'd rather not waste his talent on our team, and build around those guys with what we could get back for Smith. That's all I'm saying. Geez lay off the insults.

In my opinion, Smith is a player you bring into your system, once its already established. He's not a player you can build around. Why? Because his offensive skillset is not that vast right now. His basketball IQ is not that high either (and by me saying this, i'm not saying he can't pass, or doesn't have vision etc). What is meant by this is that he has very poor shot selection, and he doesn't move well without the ball, and he doesn't move the ball to where it needs to go at times. He doesn't post up too often, and when he sees dbl teams he is often too late in passing out. I know you can make a case for him having the balls to take the shots he takes, and no one else on our team will take them but I think JJ is a good enough offensive player to handle that role. His shot mechanics need a lot of work - He doesn't get good rotation on his shot, and often shoots when he is not square to the rim.

The real pros about Smith are that he has phenominal timing on his shot blocking, plays passing lanes very well, and is super athletic. He can take it to the hole hard, and is a good rebounder, and competent passer (when the pass is one that people will think is a nice one) for his size. Sometimes you need to roll the dice and make a trade happen. But if you're too scared to give up your second best player to get back some assets that make your TEAM better then you should get on the BK bandwagon, and ride with him into the sunset.

If BK doesn't make any bold aggressive moves this summer, I will no longer support this organization like I have for so long.

[AtLaS]

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I said I like him better than Williams, just that I think we could get more back for him.

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This is what you said.

"Smith is not a franchise player that you build around. Marvin to me has more franchise type player talent; even JJ is a questionable franchise player, but he is too a better franchise player than Smith."

So what exactly does that mean? Marvin does NOT have more franchise talent than Smith, nor is he even in the same area code, period. Frankly it baffles me to even contemplate about how you arrived at that opinion.

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In my opinion, Smith is a player you bring into your system, once its already established. He's not a player you can build around.

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Before JJ went down and we were like 21-31, we were 1-10 without Josh Smith, he is more important to this team right now than any other player. When Marvin was out, we were 8-9.

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What is meant by this is that he has very poor shot selection, and he doesn't move well without the ball, and he doesn't move the ball to where it needs to go at times.

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Poor shot selection is due to having no point guard. He is forced to create everything for himself. Would you rather we give the ball to Zaza/Shelden/Marvin and let them create? Please..

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I think JJ is a good enough offensive player to handle that role.

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Please tell me you're kidding. The Hawks are the worst offensive team in the league, even with JJ.

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But if you're too scared to give up your second best player to get back some assets that make your TEAM better then you should get on the BK bandwagon, and ride with him into the sunset.

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OMG what a horrible argument. No GM in this league would EVER even imagine making a trade anywhere similar to the ones you've suggested. You don't trade a 21 year old player who's averaging 16 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.5 spg, and 3.0 blocks. He's 21!! That's better than prime AK47 numbers, and he's 21.

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If BK doesn't make any bold aggressive moves this summer, I will no longer support this organization like I have for so long.

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I agree and BK is absolutely atrocious, but trading Smith or JJ for anything outside of a superstar is out of the question.

Acie Law or Mike Conley will be as good as Barbosa or freakin Calderon. Why not just draft a PG?

I'm done with this argument, and I'm surprised I even wasted this much time typing this post to such an uninformed fan.

[jjjohnson]

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I said I like him better than Williams, just that I think we could get more back for him.

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This is what you said.

"Smith is not a franchise player that you build around. Marvin to me has more franchise type player talent; even JJ is a questionable franchise player, but he is too a better franchise player than Smith."

So what exactly does that mean? Marvin does NOT have more franchise talent than Smith, nor is he even in the same area code, period. Frankly it baffles me to even contemplate about how you arrived at that opinion.

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In my opinion, Smith is a player you bring into your system, once its already established. He's not a player you can build around.

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Before JJ went down and we were like 21-31, we were 1-10 without Josh Smith, he is more important to this team right now than any other player. When Marvin was out, we were 8-9.

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What is meant by this is that he has very poor shot selection, and he doesn't move well without the ball, and he doesn't move the ball to where it needs to go at times.

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Poor shot selection is due to having no point guard. He is forced to create everything for himself. Would you rather we give the ball to Zaza/Shelden/Marvin and let them create? Please..

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I think JJ is a good enough offensive player to handle that role.

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Please tell me you're kidding. The Hawks are the worst offensive team in the league, even with JJ.

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But if you're too scared to give up your second best player to get back some assets that make your TEAM better then you should get on the BK bandwagon, and ride with him into the sunset.

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OMG what a horrible argument. No GM in this league would EVER even imagine making a trade anywhere similar to the ones you've suggested. You don't trade a 21 year old player who's averaging 16 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.5 spg, and 3.0 blocks. He's 21!! That's better than prime AK47 numbers, and he's 21.

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If BK doesn't make any bold aggressive moves this summer, I will no longer support this organization like I have for so long.

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I agree and BK is absolutely atrocious, but trading Smith or JJ for anything outside of a superstar is out of the question.

Acie Law or Mike Conley will be as good as Barbosa or freakin Calderon. Why not just draft a PG?

I'm done with this argument, and I'm surprised I even wasted this much time typing this post to such an uninformed fan.

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I said I would rather move Williams, but I think we could get more in return for Smith. And now you're blaming Poor shot selection on other people. It can't be Smith, he has no PG. I have news for you, while our PG isn't the best, he isn't always forcing Smith to chuck.

Acie Law??? Wow. He's not a pure point, he's just another scoring guard. While I agree we could draft a PG, there aren't many in this years draft. And we missed our opportunity on two amazing PGs in the draft already. Had we drafted Paul, or Williams, I would be all for keeping Smith. But we screwed up, and we have to rectify our mistakes.

Bringing AK47 up is a weak argument considering he's playing like doodoo now.

No GM would have done the Ford for VillAnueva trade either. I remember everyone from John Hollinger to the other ESPN cats flaming Toronto for that trade. While VillAnueva still is probably more talented than Ford, it certainly helped the Raptors improve, which is what i'm getting at. Yes, the Hawks as a team are a terrible offensive team, but you can't deny that JJ is one of the better offensive players in the league. And I'm all for improving our team, which is why I think we should turn Smith into another piece.

If you think that another team is going to trade away their "star" for Smith, you're the mistaken one. Unfortuantley, the other team is going to have the leverage in a deal, because a) they know we're committed to JJ, and b) that they know we're going to suck as long as we have Smith.

We sucked this year with Smith, and we'll continue to suck with Smith because he's not being used efficiently, and to his strengths. And as much as I would like to keep him, we won't be a good team with him, because of our other pieces that we have.

Edit - Sometimes we have to put the responsibility on Smith. While he's talented as hell, we havn't progressed one bit in his 3 years here. He's not a rookie don't forget. Why are we competing for Oden? Let's get real here, his bonehead decisions are starting to annoy me, and I think his value is at an all time high.

[AtLaS]

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It can't be Smith, he has no PG. I have news for you, while our PG isn't the best, he isn't always forcing Smith to chuck.

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So you are saying we should let Zaza/Marvin/Shelden chuck instead? Do you know anything about basketball?

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Acie Law??? Wow. He's not a pure point, he's just another scoring guard.

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You continue to show your basketball ignorance. BARBOSA ISN'T EITHER!! HE'S NOTHING BUT A SCORING PG!! He's also looking for a big contract next season!

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Bringing AK47 up is a weak argument considering he's playing like doodoo now.

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OMFG, I hate attacking other posters, but you are really dumb. I said he's putting up better than PRIME AK47 NUMBERS at the age of 21! Does that not register with you? What does that have to do with this season? You do know what a players prime is right? I mean that he's putting up numbers that are BETTER than AK47 (WHEN AK47 WAS GOOD) at the age of 21. Me having to explain that to you just tells me that you are about 12 years old, or you just started following basketball yesterday.

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No GM would have done the Ford for VillAnueva trade either.

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Actually they would have. Toronto needed a PG in the baddest way, and they already had Bosh who played Villanueva's position. We don't have a Chris Bosh, KG, or JO playing ahead of Josh Smith. Not to mention, Smith is better than Villanueva, and Calderon is WORSE than Ford. If BK made one of those deals, he might as well pull his pants down and let Toronto finish the job.

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Yes, the Hawks as a team are a terrible offensive team, but you can't deny that JJ is one of the better offensive players in the league.

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JJ is, but that has nothing to do with why we are a horrible offensive team. Not only would trading Smith would make our offense worse, additionally it would make us an even WORSE DEFENSIVE team.

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If you think that another team is going to trade away their "star" for Smith, you're the mistaken one.

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And if you think we are going to trade Smith for Barbosa or Calderon, I think you should go schedule yourself a CAT scan.

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We sucked this year with Smith, and we'll continue to suck with Smith because he's not being used efficiently, and to his strengths. And as much as I would like to keep him, we won't be a good team with him, because of our other pieces that we have.

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Please tell me why we were 1-10 without Smith when we were 21-31 overall? Why were we 8-9 without Marvin? We are better as a team without JJ than we are without Smith.

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Edit - Sometimes we have to put the responsibility on Smith. While he's talented as hell, we havn't progressed one bit in his 3 years here. He's not a rookie don't forget. Why are we competing for Oden? Let's get real here, his bonehead decisions are starting to annoy me, and I think his value is at an all time high.

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Are you really this stupid? You are putting the blame on Smith? Marvin/Shelden/Childress, AJ signing, Lo signing, Speedy signing, EVERYTHING BK has done has screwed us over. Not to mention Woodson hasn't helped his cause any. Without Smith we'd be 10-67 right now, if not worse. How are you blaming Smith. OMFG dude you should be banned for lack of knowledge.

[jjjohnson]

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So you are saying we should let Zaza/Marvin/Shelden chuck instead? Do you know anything about basketball?

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Sometimes I would like Smith to trust his teammates more. There are better shooters on the team than him.

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You continue to show your basketball ignorance. BARBOSA ISN'T EITHER!! HE'S NOTHING BUT A SCORING PG!! He's also looking for a big contract next season!

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But he's already been in the league, and proven that he can play on a great team. Acie Law has not. You want to start all over again? Barbosa is a really really talented good player, who i really think you're underestimating.. And his play making ability, while he's not a typical playmaking guard, he can run an offense better than any of the guards we have now.

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OMFG, I hate attacking other posters, but you are really dumb. I said he's putting up better than

PRIME AK47 NUMBERS

at the age of 21! Does that not register with you? What does that have to do with this season? You do know what a players prime is right? I mean that he's putting up numbers that are BETTER than AK47 (WHEN AK47 WAS GOOD) at the age of 21. Me having to explain that to you just tells me that you are about 12 years old, or you just started following basketball yesterday.

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AK47 isn't over the hills yet. He still should have a few more years left in him. He put up good numbers when the Jazz sucked. When they're good now, look at his production? Now you've compared him to Smith, and Smith is on a bad team right now. I would like to see Smiths production on a good team.

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Actually they would have. Toronto needed a PG in the baddest way, and they already had Bosh who played Villanueva's position. We don't have a Chris Bosh, KG, or JO playing ahead of Josh Smith. Not to mention, Smith is better than Villanueva, and Calderon is WORSE than Ford. If BK made one of those deals, he might as well pull his pants down and let Toronto finish the job.

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While Toronto needed a PG, people still flamed them for making the deal. "you don't trade big for small" ect.. And Villanueva was starting alongside Bosh last year; so no they weren't playing the same position. Raptors just elected to go with Bargnani over Villanueva.

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JJ is, but that has nothing to do with why we are a horrible offensive team. Not only would trading Smith would make our offense worse, additionally it would make us an even WORSE DEFENSIVE team.

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No, you're wrong. That's assuming we get NOTHING in return. Geez. It doesn't have to be Barbosa, or Calderon and such, I was just throwing out ideas. Mainly, I think the idea is trading Smith for the most value we can get back; and I'm not expecting a superstar in return.

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And if you think we are going to trade Smith for Barbosa or Calderon, I think you should go schedule yourself a CAT scan.

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I think you need the CAT scan becausae of a) how enraged you're getting, b) because you're the most subjective biased person I've ever come across on these forums.

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Please tell me why we were 1-10 without Smith when we were 21-31 overall? Why were we 8-9 without Marvin? We are better as a team without JJ than we are without Smith.

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I never said Smith was crap, and that he wasn't a big part of our teams success this year, did I? I've repeatedly said I like Smith; just that I wouldn't object moving, and I would prefer to move him over our other core peices because of his value, and the return we could get. Regardless of how you want to put what you just put, they sucked with/without him. Pick which suck you like better.

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Are you really this stupid? You are putting the blame on Smith? Marvin/Shelden/Childress, AJ signing, Lo signing, Speedy signing, EVERYTHING BK has done has screwed us over. Not to mention Woodson hasn't helped his cause any. Without Smith we'd be 10-67 right now, if not worse. How are you blaming Smith. OMFG dude you should be banned for lack of knowledge.

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I'm not putting the entire blame on Smith. But if you're going to grant him all he's done for our team, he must surely take some of the bad too. At the end of the day it comes down to what our future is going to look like? When Smith becomes a FA, he's going to have a lot of teams lined up to get him. What makes you think he's going to stay here? Unless we throw more money at him, I doubt he's going to stay loyal, not because he doesn't like the city of ATL, but because we're not doing anything to make the situation better. Frankly, it's not going to get any better by the time he's a free agent. We could revamp our roster with the exception of JJ, S&M Williams, Claxton, draft another PF (this upcoming draft is loaded with stud PFs), and get a solid starting PG for Smith.

Option two is - We keep Smith (and committ tons of cash to him), trade Williams, get little in return back as he's purely potential right now. And draft another swingman? Have you seen the guards entering the draft? If we draft Conely, we'll likely have to reach down to get him. If we trade down, we're giving up on some of the sick players that are going to be at the top of this draft.

You need to understand that what I'm saying makes sense from an objective perspective. I think you're blinded by your love for Smith as a player. I love him too, and think he's going to have a tremendous career, but I think we're better moving on without him.

[AtLaS]

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AK47 put up good numbers when the Jazz sucked.

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Really?

01-02: Jazz 44-38

02-03: Jazz 47-35

03-04: Jazz 42-40

Jazz sucked in 04-05 because AK47 was injured for over half the season.

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Regardless of how you want to put what you just put, they sucked with/without Josh Smith. Pick which suck you like better.

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We've also sucked with/without JJ, Marvin, Zaza, Shelden, Childress, Walker, Harrington, Terry, Solomon.. should I keep going?

When we were 21-31, we were 1-10 without Smith. That means we were 20-21 with him. We're at 9% success rate without Smith, 49% with him. We are essentially a .500 team with Smith and our full roster. Conversely, the team doesn't suffer in Marvin's absence. Smith's biggest help is defensively, he will be an all-defensive teamer this year. Our defense is absolutely atrocious without him, which is why we were 1-10 without him, WHEN we were still a respectable team earlier this season.

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What makes you think he's going to stay here?

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When Smith says he doesn't want to resign, we will discuss trade options.

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You need to understand that what I'm saying makes sense from an objective perspective. I think you're blinded by your love for Smith as a player.

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No, when someone is putting up those numbers as a 21 year old, especially considering how much improvement he's shown from last season, you don't trade a player with superstar potential for a backup or even average PG, ESPECIALLY for an already ailing franchise such as this one.

BTW since what you're saying makes so much sense, why does EVERYONE in this thread disagree with you?? Because we're all idiots and you are Miss Cleo??

[jjjohnson]

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Really?

01-02: Jazz 44-38

02-03: Jazz 47-35

03-04: Jazz 42-40

Jazz sucked in 04-05 because AK47 was injured for over half the season.

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What about 05-06? You're going back to Malone days here.

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We've also sucked with/without JJ, Marvin, Zaza, Shelden, Childress, Walker, Harrington, Terry, Solomon.. should I keep going?

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I'm not saying we didn't suck then. I'm just stating that we suck right now and that a change is necessary.

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When we were 21-31, we were 1-10 without Smith. That means we were 20-21 with him.

We're at 9% success rate without Smith, 49% with him.

We are essentially a .500 team with Smith and our full roster. Conversely, the team doesn't suffer in Marvin's absence. Smith's biggest help is defensively, he will be an all-defensive teamer this year. Our defense is absolutely atrocious without him, which is why we were 1-10 without him, WHEN we were still a respectable team earlier this season.

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O.K. so let's give it one more year before we realize that being under .500 is not a respectable team. In fact, I don't even see us headed in the right direction. We're not improving. You make it seem like I'm saying, let's just waive Smith, and not have anything come back in return. Those numbers mean nothing when you don't include the production of the new players on the team.

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When Smith says he doesn't want to resign, we will discuss trade options.

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When Smith says he doesn't want to resign is when his trade value goes down. And why we can't wait for that to happen. Plus, he doesn't have to even say that, he can simply leave. We will end up sign and trading him for two future picks.

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No, when someone is putting up those numbers as a 21 year old, especially considering how much improvement he's shown from last season, you don't trade a player with superstar potential for a backup or even average PG, ESPECIALLY for an already ailing franchise such as this one.

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But the franchise isn't getting any better? I'm not denying Smiths numbers or talent. And you failed to quote what else I said about filling our needs that we would lose in this years draft. Like I've said, we're not going to get a superstar in return for Smith, regardless of whether or not we feel he's "worth" that. At the same time, we cannot hang on to him, unless we want to stunt the development of our team by a few years. And I am saying if we do that, he will likely dip from the Hawks.

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BTW since what you're saying makes so much sense, why does EVERYONE in this thread disagree with you?? Because we're all idiots and you are Miss Cleo??

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People disagree about Barbosa for Smith, which I understand. And I'm not exclusivley saying Barbosa, but we do need to trade for a starting caliber PG. What I am saying makes perfect sense. I wouldn't call myself Miss Cleo, because she's a fraud, but I do have some type of vision of how I would like our team to be assembled. Unfortunatley, Smith is not part of our future, as much as I would like him to be. The reason for this is because we drafted Marvin Williams. If we had drafted Paul that year, Smith is ours, and I am happy with that combo. We would certainly be able to build around that.

But we're stuck with Williams - who I feel can still emerge as a very good player. Now we could always trade away Williams too, but like I've said the return won't be as good as what we would get in Smith.

So the dillemma (and there certainly is one with our team) comes down to, who do you keep, Smith or Williams? My case for trading away Smith is that we can get a better PF in this draft than we could PG. Plus PGs generally take longer to develop than forwards. We acquire a good starting PG and another throw (depth) in for Smith, and draft Al Horford, or another highly touted PF.

Not to mention that Williams develops into a servicable player, and now we have a team with dynamics. Sure it's hard to let go of Smith, but I would be willing to do it for the benefit of our team. But if we want to improve we have to turn one of our assets into something that fills our deficiencies.

[AHF]

Smith could announce he is never playing another game ever in an Atlanta Hawks jersey and he would still have enough trade value to land Barbosa or Calderon - easily.

The trades you are proposing are akin to wondering if a GM could trade Kobe Bryant for Caron Butler. (I am not comparing the players themselves in this - just the talent gap.)

[Packfill]

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Smith could announce he is never playing another game ever in an Atlanta Hawks jersey and he would still have enough trade value to land Barbosa or Calderon - easily.

The trades you are proposing are akin to wondering if a GM could trade Kobe Bryant for Caron Butler. (I am not comparing the players themselves in this - just the talent gap.)

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I agree with this entirely, however, I do think the poster know as Joe Johnson has a good point (although he does a good job of hiding it).

The point is that Toronto improved greatly because it traded away a redundant asset (i.e., Charlie V. when they had Bosh and Bargnani) who was highly regarded for a starting caliber point guard - a position of need on that team. While Toronto may have gotten the short end of the "talent" stick in that trade, the trade did make them a much better team.

If we apply that lesson to Atlanta, BK has done a decent job acquiring assets but has failed miserably in that he has not used those assets to build a "team."

More then anything, I think this is why BK has hurt this franchise.

[AHF]

No doubt that we need to upgrade our PG talent. I think that should be a young player who can be here for the long-term (which Barbosa would fit age-wise). I just don't think you can trade away a core asset like Josh Smith to fill a need. Chills, Marvin or Shelden would all be pieces I would move first and would think would be enough to get the Barbosa, Calderon, etc. level of players.

I also would like to see what we can land in the draft before considering dealing one of our top players.

[Packfill]

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No doubt that we need to upgrade our PG talent. I think that should be a young player who can be here for the long-term (which Barbosa would fit age-wise). I just don't think you can trade away a core asset like Josh Smith to fill a need. Chills, Marvin or Shelden would all be pieces I would move first and would think would be enough to get the Barbosa, Calderon, etc. level of players.

I also would like to see what we can land in the draft before considering dealing one of our top players.

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Agreed. I do think you have to look at the success of some pass-first type point guards like Nash, Kidd, Ford, Paul, Deron and Miller. Is Toronto really more talented then the Hawks? Philly? The Hawks need a bona fide floor general to take advantage of guys like Josh Smith. How good would he be with an Andre Miller getting him the ball in scoring position as opposed to now where he gets it on the wing and has to create on his own?

And yes, Marvin, Sheldin and Chill would be jettisoned long before Smoove.

A guy like Calderon would be a great acquisition for the Hawks. Obviously you do not trade Smoove for him, but you have to consider making a deal with some of the other guys given what Calderon has shown (he was awesome when Ford was injured).