For all the tankers...

[DavidSomerset]

It appears we will almost certainly be in the #4 spot when the draft lottery comes...With Milwaukee losing tonight, it's very unlikely we get the 3 spot, and we are probably out of Charlotte's range to lose the 4 spot.

So will yall please stop with the "WE BETTER LOSE TONIGHT", "I'M GOING TO BE PISSED IF WE WIN TONIGHT" posts and just cheer for us to win a few here at the end?

[bumpyphish1]

I know some will hate me, but I am still holding out hope...If Milwaukee just beats Boston and us, then we tie them for the 3 spot. I do need one more win from us to hit my preseason bet of over 28.5 wins. Looks like Vegas was on the money with that one.

[DrReality]

Pierce and Jefferson out Tuesday:

Pierce has missed five straight games with a sore left elbow and is expected to miss at least one more, according to the team's official Web site.

Boston (23-53) is 1-2 against Atlanta (28-49) this season, picking up its only win in the one game Pierce played -- 109-88 at TD Banknorth Garden on March 14. Pierce, who oddly enough had just 17 points of 5-of-13 shooting in that game, has missed only one other matchup with the Hawks -- a 99-85 defeat at Atlanta on March 11, 1999 during his rookie season.

The Celtics are averaging 86.0 points and shooting 38.3 percent against the Hawks this season without Pierce, who missed the first two games with a sore foot.

Boston has had little chance of picking up a victory in any game without their star since Pierce, who's averaging 25.0 points in 2006-07, joined the team nine years ago. The Celtics are 3-26 this season and 6-34 all-time with him out of the lineup.

Al Jefferson, Boston's second-leading scorer at 15.8 points per game, joined Pierce on the sidelines in a 105-98 loss at Indiana on Saturday night. Jefferson (bruised left knee) has missed three straight games and is not expected to make the trip to Atlanta.

"Obviously, to be undermanned, it was a great effort," Celtics coach Doc Rivers said of Saturday's defeat. "Everybody played hard, and as a coach, that's all you can ask for."

Boston also played without guard Delonte West, who may return Tuesday after missing two games with a sprained left ankle.

The Celtics have lost four in a row on the road and three straight overall.

Atlanta fell 109-104 in overtime at Philadelphia on Sunday night, two days after ending a seven-game losing streak by beating Milwaukee.

[Guest Walter]

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With Milwaukee losing tonight, it's very unlikely we get the 3 spot, and we are probably out of Charlotte's range to lose the 4 spot.

So will yall please stop with the "WE BETTER LOSE TONIGHT", "I'M GOING TO BE PISSED IF WE WIN TONIGHT" posts and just cheer for us to win a few here at the end?

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...I think it should be reasonable enough for you to hope we don't win at least through Milwaulkee's game with the Celtics. They are short players, only have 23 wins, and are tanking just as much. There is considerable hope that Milwaulkee beats them. Why would you prefer a win of our own over the lowly Celtics to a 10% better shot at a top 3 pick? I mean, it's one, maybe two games between now and the time Milwaulkee plays Boston. A win over the Celtics without Pierce, West, Jefferson, and whoever else doesn't prove anything. Nobody is going to talk about that victory next year unless its in the context of costing us a top 3 pick opportunity. Why can't you be open minded, contrary to your position like you are asking us to be? For only two games. That's all. If Milwaulkee is not in reach by Friday night and we're not in danger of losing the 4th position, I'll strongly consider joining you.

Mind you, you never know with the last game of the season. The Cavs could easily send out a skeleton crew to rest up their players for the playoffs and the Bucks could beat them. Ya never know.

Anyhow, perhaps most importantly, THERE IS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE AT STAKE HERE THAN A TOP 3 PICK! It could be that a a few wins could allow Woody and/or BK to keep his/their job(s). If a few meaningless wins mean another year of these two clowns, would you still support 1 or 2 more wins this year? Seriously, jdu... would you? Do you want a win against the lowly Celtics that you would choose that over a new coach or new GM? We've got to be on that win total cusp where even our gracious, yet seemingly absent if not incompetent ownership, would either fire or not fire these clowns. Are you for 1 or 2 more wins if it means their return?

W

[DavidSomerset]

As I've said multiple times, I will NEVER cheer for this team to lose...There is no point in following a team if you want them to lose.

If my post didn't compel you to cheer for us to win, then oh well...Thanks for at least reading it...But I will never become a "tanker", just like by the sound of it, it doesn't look like some of yall will turn (at least this season).

[Guest Walter]

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As I've said multiple times, I will NEVER cheer for this team to lose...There is no point in following a team if you want them to lose.

If my post didn't compel you to cheer for us to win, then oh well...Thanks for at least reading it...But I will never become a "tanker", just like by the sound of it, it doesn't look like some of yall will turn (at least this season).

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...Because you had better get use to it if we don't win a top 3 pick. Actually, we might never quite reach that level depending upon how you define it.

I want this team to win a title. There is no point in following this team if you accept less for it. It's competitive sports not little league.

W

[DavidSomerset]

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As I've said multiple times, I will NEVER cheer for this team to lose...There is no point in following a team if you want them to lose.

If my post didn't compel you to cheer for us to win, then oh well...Thanks for at least reading it...But I will never become a "tanker", just like by the sound of it, it doesn't look like some of yall will turn (at least this season).

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...Because you had better get use to it if we don't win a top 3 pick. Actually, we might never quite reach that level depending upon how you define it.

I want this team to win a title. There is no point in following this team if you accept less for it. It's competitive sports not little league.

W

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In my opinion, this team could be more than capable of winning an NBA title within 3 years, particularly if we pick up a good looking PG with the 12th or 13th pick in the draft from Indy.

Our core of Smoove/JJ/Marvin/Chillz/Zaza along with the progression of our back-ups (Salim, Solo, Shelden) certainly SHOULD make the playoffs next year and compete for the big prize very soon.

I am in no way settling for mediocrity...I'm being a loyal fan...The city of Atlanta needs more of them.

[Guest Walter]

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In my opinion, this team could be more than capable of winning an NBA title within 3 years, particularly if we pick up a good looking PG with the 12th or 13th pick in the draft from Indy.

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Name the last 4th worst team to win a title within 3 years time. Such a team would not only have a 12-13th pick but a likely 4th pick. I'd be interested to see how they did it. SA maybe with their tank. Let's see what you can come up with. 4th (hell I'll take 5th or worst) to 1st in 3. Let's see it. History mocks you.

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Our core of Smoove/JJ/Marvin/Chillz/Zaza along with the progression of our back-ups (Salim, Solo, Shelden) certainly SHOULD make the playoffs next year and compete for the big prize very soon.

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Sounds like last year. Get real.

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I am in no way settling for mediocrity...I'm being a loyal fan...The city of Atlanta needs more of them.

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Yes you are, no you aren't, and Atlanta can't be picky, but if it could it could use more fans that can give a remotely accurate prognosis.

You think being fourth worse is somehow my fault or something and an indication of great things to come in 3 years.

Coddle this franchise (or ownership/management) at its own peril. It needs some tough love, not an enabler. You're loving it into a brat, eventual drug addicted, permiscuous, hateful, socially maladjusted step child (forgive me well adjusted step-children out there). You give it all kinds of liberties, make excuses for it, bail it out, praise it for 'D's, and wonder why at 14 its behavior lands you on the Dr. Phil show. What would Dr. Phil tell you?

Dr Phil:

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"Where are you when your franchise is out smoking weed with the likes of Golden State and New York, vandalizing cars, and having unprotected sex with strange men? Do you think this is normal franchise behavior? Quit ignoring the problem, minimizing it, or making excuses because you feel like a guilty fan telling your franchise to behave. You're not here to be friends, buddy buddy with your franchise, you're here to fan it. Real fans don't apologize for expecting more out of their franchise and they don't let their franchise get away with much less endorse juvenile behavior.

I've got a letter here from you where you say that the 4th worst team will be a contender in 3 years. What kind of fan are you when you believe such obvious jibberish. How often if ever do you see the 26th worst sophomore student in a class of 30 become senior valedictorian. There has to be some accountability here. You can't pretend 4th worst doesn't mean something bad or is someone else's fault when you ignore it, minimize it, or defend it as a fan.

I've gotta take a break. We'll be right back to see if this Hawk fan can see the error of his ways and is willing to get the help he needs to be a better fan. Also, we'll talk to friends of jdu00743 that insist he doesn't have a soul to sell, just a moral absolutism, even when it comes to more than just sports, to fall back on."

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W

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Name the last 4th worst team to win a title within 3 years time. Such a team would not only have a 12-13th pick but a likely 4th pick. I'd be interested to see how they did it. SA maybe with their tank. Let's see what you can come up with. 4th (hell I'll take 5th or worst) to 1st in 3. Let's see it. History mocks you.

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Name a team younger than the Hawks were last year.

Reason why this team can go from one extreme to the other is because all the untapped potential. Some of that potential was realized this year with the emergence of Smoove but we've just hit the tip of the iceberg in that department.

You can choose to believe these young players wont develop but I wont bet against them ESPECIALLY

[DavidSomerset]

I did not say "We will WIN a title in 3 years", I said we will COMPETE for a title within 3 years.

That means I believe with this team + a Mike Conley (or a PG of similar skill that we pick at 12) will be one of the better teams in the NBA.

If you disagree, fine. So be it. But we'll just have to see.

[vext]

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Name the last 4th worst team to win a title within 3 years time.

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Miami was the 4th worst team in the 2002-2003 season. They won the Championship in the 2005-2006 season.

[DJlaysitup]

as long as we have an outside chance at tying the Bucks for the 3rd worst spot (and therefore splitting the ping pong balls with them and increasing our chances at a 1-2-3 pick), I'm still on the "tank-wagon".

The future is more important than getting a close win against Boston. Sure, the Celtics are undermanned and will throw Telfair at us - but we are down JJ and JS and we can throw TLue right back at them.

It could be an epic tank battle - one that Patton would be proud of

[DavidSomerset]

[Sothron]

There is not a chance in hell this team as its currently compromised will even sniff the playoffs in three years time let alone "compete for a title". We need a real center and a real point guard to just have a chance for the 8th seed.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Name the last 4th worst team to win a title within 3 years time.

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Miami was the 4th worst team in the 2002-2003 season. They won the Championship in the 2005-2006 season.

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LOL @ vet. Technically, that is true. Nothing like adding one of the top 5 centers of all time to your team though.

And that brings me to something that I've mentioned on some other boards. Keep an eye on New Jersey.

Barring some unforseen disaster, they should make the playoffs. But the future of the stars on that team aren't set in stone at all. If they go one-and-done in the postseason, Vince Carter may forego that player option, and become a UFA, mainly because Jersey isn't talking about giving him an extension.

If that happened, Mr. Jordan and Charlotte would probably break their necks trying to get him ( which may explain why the Hornets aren't even considering tanking, and playing some of their best ball all year ).

That leaves Jason Kidd.

If Carter leaves, then you're probably talking about the Nets also getting Kidd off of their books, and rebuilding the team around Marcus Williams, Kristic and R-Jeff.

People on the board talk about how our contracts are a waste ( especially with the PGs ), but if the Hawks really wanted to make a push to get to playoff level immeadiately, without worrying about salary at this point, they could conceivably make a play at Jason Kidd sometime before the trade deadline next season.

Trading Lue, AJ, LO, and Marvin to Jersey could get that done . . IF and only IF . . Jersey wanted to get Kidd off the books, and retain a decent young player in the process.

It'll give Jersey expiring contracts to get off the books in the Summer of 2008. And it would give them a young player like Marvin, in which they could evaulate and make a decision on either immeadiately, or in the near future. And that would give Jay-Z and the other Nets owners a whole lot of cap room to work with, when the summer of 2008 came around.

It'll be much like the deal we made with Detroit, when we traded Rasheed to the Pistons, and acquired all of those expiring contracts.

On our end, a move like that wouldn't hurt our cap number in 2008, but it definitely would in 2009, when extensions for Smoove and possibly Childress would kick in. The questions are these, could this team in 07 - 08 make the playoffs?

PG - Kidd

G - JJ

F - Chill

F - Smoove

F/C - ZaZa

with Speedy, Shelden, Salim, Solomon, and Indy pick as the bench?

If it could, then it may be in our best interest to roll with that group in 08 - 09, and take a little hit in the salary aspect, just to make sure that we'd have a legit playoff team here and generate some interest back with this franchise.

It's unpredictable things like that . . things that we can't see now, but might happen in the future, that could totally change things around here. When good players with bad contracts get traded, it's not always a bad thing for the team acquiring the good player. Especially if the players fills a need and can immeadiately help you. That's usually how teams improve themselves, when they don't have time to wait 2 - 3 years for draft picks to develop.

But the Hawks would have to be willing to spend a little money again in order for this to happen. LOL . . so don't hold your breath.

[vext]

I agree we won't compete for the championship without some changes, but we can definitely compete for a playoff spot. If we didn't have so many injuries this year we could have potentially made the playoffs. Or, if we had a real coach we could have made the playoffs (and maybe avoid some of the injuries we had). Hopefully we can get lucky in the draft, get a new GM and coach, pull off a trade that helps, or get lucky with the development of our young guys in the offseason.

[vext]

I am not so sure that Carter is going to leave NJ or that NJ is planning on blowing up their team. I thought it could potentially happen a month or two ago, but some of the recent comments by the NJ ownership has made me rethink it. They "sound" like they really want to keep Carter and make a push with the current lineup. We will see what happens. I think they would be best to trade away Kidd and Carter and rebuild.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I am not so sure that Carter is going to leave NJ or that NJ is planning on blowing up their team. I thought it could potentially happen a month or two ago, but some of the recent comments by the NJ ownership has made me rethink it. They "sound" like they really want to keep Carter and make a push with the current lineup. We will see what happens. I think they would be best to trade away Kidd and Carter and rebuild.

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You're right. But if that team bombs in the playoffs against a young Chicago team, their position on Carter and Kidd may change.

Their first option may be to trade superstar for superstar.

Carter or Kidd + Jason Collins . . for KG ( Garnett's contract is ridiculous ). That would be the first thing I would look at. That would at least keep 2 superstars in Jersey, while giving the T-Wolves a star to replace KG with.

But if they can't go talent for talent, then getting the contracts off the books may be the route to go. If so, we're the team that can make it happen for them.

[vext]

I agree with you on that northcyde. Anything can happen in the next month with that team. And it may not matter, Carter may decide he wants to play somewhere else since he has the option to walk away. NJ may be stuck with 1 star when free agency comes up.

[Catapult]

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Name the last 4th worst team to win a title within 3 years time. Such a team would not only have a 12-13th pick but a likely 4th pick. I'd be interested to see how they did it. SA maybe with their tank. Let's see what you can come up with. 4th (hell I'll take 5th or worst) to 1st in 3. Let's see it. History mocks you.

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-Doesn't that also mean that you'll have to try to start winning at some point because it is tough to turn around a team quickly?

-Name the most succesful tankings from let's say last 10 years