Shelden Steps up.

[thesheedera]

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That forces us to play smoove at PF and Zaza at C.

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Which is what we've been doing anyway.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's better than what we have, and I think it would be good enough to get us into the playoffs. Marvin plays SF for us, but Woody essentially uses him as another SG out on the perimeter.

[bfwolf]

Sure, I completely agree. When I talk about talent, I mean how good the guy will be in the NBA...includes both short term and long term.

[bfwolf]

I thought Shelden would be better than he is, but STILL thought the talent gap was enormous. If anybody actually saw Roy play in college, you knew he was a sure-fire bet to be a very good pro. I still don't understand how he wasn't the #1 pick.

[Diesel]

What we've been doing doesn't work.

That's the bottom line.

Why go for a none working plan?

[Guest Walter]

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Here's why you're inconsistent

If you agree with me that picking Marvin was wrong because he was a duplication. Then Picking Roy when we have JJ and Paul is also wrong for the same reason.

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Roy wouldn't be NEAR the duplication MW was with Diaw, JC, JS, Harrington, and Donta and given we could run a 3 guard lineup and have an interchangable 3-guard rotation, could be an invaluable asset.

More importantly, there were more reasons than duplication why both you and I wouldn't have picked MW. Neither of us though he was anymore talented than Deron and both of us thought he wouldn't reach his talent ceiling due to intangibles. To claim "duplication" was the only reason or maybe even the primary reason is simply innacurate.

Lastly, I've always been a proponent of considering player trade value when there is ANY question about a player's "fit" with a team. That's why I liked Deng over Iggy and PART of the reason I liked both over Childress. You never know what a series of drafts is going to bring you amidst a rebuild so if you have any doubt about a player's "fit" with you, you at least have to consider trade value. Undoubtedly, Roy's trade value was many times more than SW. Just look at the 3 trades that he was involved in. NOBODY wanted SW. Hell, we telegraphed our intent and nobody tried a lick to get him. Aside from being significantly less talented, not filling a positional need, not filling a much of a need well, being a poor NBA shot-blocker...he's just the least "sexy" pick EVER! Roy may not be Justin Timberlake but he brings "sexy back" next to SW. That "sexy", the talent differential for Roy, and the positional need he filled make him so much more valuable this isn't even worth discussing anymore.

Of course, we didn't draft Paul SO WHAT'S YOUR POINT BUT TO FURTHER DEMONSTRATE JUST HOW POOR YOUR JUDGEMENT WAS!?! We didn't draft Paul and you STILL wouldn't pick Roy even now. Good grief you're crazy.

W

[AHF]

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Roy may not be Justin Timberlake but he brings "sexy back" next to SW.

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Killing your own argument, here! lol

[thesheedera]

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What we've been doing doesn't work.

That's the bottom line.

Why go for a none working plan?

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It's a much different plan with different personnel. Chris Paul alone would be such a huge upgrade over anyone we've been playing at PG, and the Roy/JJ combo for the SG/SF spots compared to JJ/Marvin is splitting hairs in my opinion. I like the JJ/Marvin combo better due to the size it gives us, but I wouldn't be afraid of going a bit small to have that kind of skill all grouped in our backcourt.

And you have an all purpose guy like Childress coming off the bench when you need more size at SF, rotating Paul, Roy and JJ almost interchangeably at the 1 and 2 spots.

I'm not arguing against having better bigs at all. I just don't think Shelden and Marvin do enough to relieve our problems down low to pass up the opportunity to have Paul and Roy instead. Let's face it, no matter how we drafted, one of these guys was destined to come off the bench. Last year it was Marvin, this year it's Shelden. There's no way Shelden or Marvin is pushing Smith out of the starting lineup.

If we had Paul and Roy instead, I think there would be a much better chance we could have both those guys in our starting lineup that us ever having Marvin AND Shelden as starters unless we trade someone.

Roy would get less time than JJ and Paul, but he'd be a heck of a 6th man, much more so than Shelden, and I think he would be a frequent starter.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Gotta factor in the coach too.

Woody loves Lue, and would've played him over Paul, until Paul proved that he was an upgrade over Lue. Same goes for Roy, when comparing him to Chill or Marvin.

People have to realize that Roy and Paul went to perfect situations for them to immeadiately have an impact on their teams. That may or may not have been the case here.

A lot of times, it all depends on where a player goes, when you talk about success.

Carmelo may or may not be the player that he is now, if he'd gone #2 like he should've, to the Pistons. He'd be the 6th man on that team because they probably don't sit Tayshawn Prince in order to play Melo, even if Melo is the better offensive talent. Prince's all-around game at that time was valuable for the Pistons, and he probably doesn't lose his starting job to a Rookie.

[Guest Walter]

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I'm not arguing against having better bigs at all. I just don't think Shelden and Marvin do enough to relieve our problems down low to pass up the opportunity to have Paul and Roy instead. Let's face it, no matter how we drafted, one of these guys was destined to come off the bench. Last year it was Marvin, this year it's Shelden. There's no way Shelden or Marvin is pushing Smith out of the starting lineup.

If we had Paul and Roy instead, I think there would be a much better chance we could have both those guys in our starting lineup that us ever having Marvin AND Shelden as starters unless we trade someone.

Roy would get less time than JJ and Paul, but he'd be a heck of a 6th man, much more so than Shelden, and I think he would be a frequent starter.

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What I also don't get is that the hypothetical is not true. We did not draft Paul. We drafted another forward that pushed JS to the 4. Yet Diesel STILL insists he would have drafted a much lesser talented Pf in SW. The reality nor the hypothetical defend his position.

[Guest Walter]

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Gotta factor in the coach too.

Woody loves Lue, and would've played him over Paul

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No way that would have happened. Sorry.

No one ever denies that situation impacts player development. However, we aren't the Detroit Pistons of 3-4 years ago and the talent of Paul and Roy couldn't be eclipsed by Lue like MW and SW are being eclipsed. Tack on the #2 pick and "NBA-ready" notions to Paul and he would have been a starter within 30 games.

Of course, we would have just traded Lue like we did Harrington to make room for MW, in the offseason if need be.

W

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'm just saying Walter. We saw how Larry Brown flat out refused to give his kids significant minutes in New York.

With Woody being a Larry disciple, I could easily see a situation in which Paul and Lue split time, with Lue being the starter and the one in the game at the end. Chris would have to completely prove that he's better than Ty, to get the start.

(( edit . . because I initially said this backwards ))

30 games may have given him enough time to earn that starting position, but that's only if the combination of Lue starting, and Paul coming off the bench, weren't enabling us to be a successful team. If not, then Paul probably plays a role coming off the bench in place of Lue, because this is what is successful.

You never know though. I could easily see Woody playing Lue 30 minutes a game, and Paul 24.

[Guest Walter]

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I'm just saying Walter. We saw how Larry Brown flat out refused to give his kids significant minutes in New York.

With Woody being a Larry disciple, I could easily see a situation in which Paul and Lue split time, with Lue being the starter and the one in the game at the end. Chris would have to completely prove that he's better than Ty, to get the start.

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I agree, but I don't think it would take Paul long at all here, Woody being Larry disciple or not. It didn't take JJ long to publically say his jaw was dropping over Paul. Paul has a little old school in him as well. Woody might just have gushed over him. Regardless, we would have traded Lue to make way for Paul just as we have traded Harrington to make way for MW, Paul would have taken the reigns 10 times better than MW has, and...well, we'll never know.

W

[thesheedera]

I would agree that there's no reason in the world why Paul would have been shunned if Marvin's getting played.

Also, let's not forget how many games Ivey was our starter last year. he wasn't exactly a proven vet!

[BusBoyIsBack]

If we get Conley or Law will you people finally shut the hell up about these HOF PGs we passed on?

Oh BTW, to say SHelden only performs against scrub competition is absurd.

As Ive pointed out before his best games have come against top notch competition like Detroit, Houston, and Utah.

[Sothron]

Yeah and JR Rider had some 30 point plus games as a Hawk. So what? Shellhead gets destroyed on the court 9.9 times out of 10 against real competition. A few token games means nothing.