If someone said that in Year 2 Marvin would......

[LastDon]

give us 13/6 and improve his scoring average from 8 to 13 would you be disappointed if you knew this information before hand and we picked him over Paul? I think that In Hindsight if I knew this I would have pick him over those guys because he was only 19 years old if we didn't all ready have all those forwards.

However, I'm dissappointed in his season because i thought from actually seeing him perform in summer league that he could get 20 points a game easy but he was unable to because Woody turned him into a jump shooter instead of utilizing him on the post more. If he adds a jump hook to his post game and a turn around jumper he would be devestating because that move that he has when he turn and face the basket with a jab step and ball fake is pretty much unstoppable. he beats opponents with that same move at least once a game. We are hard on Marvin but in reality he is developing quite nicely.

[Popeye]

He will be fine, he was posting up a lot in last few games. He just has to know when the double team is coming and go quickly. He also needs to kick out the ball to perimeter if he can't get a good shot off, sometimes he forces it that results in a turnover or a miss shot. It's good that he has midrange game because most of the good players in Nba have unstopable midrange games.

13 and 5 is not bad at all for 20 year old, but honestly i expected more especially his fg% to be around 45-50%.

[CBAreject]

MW is going to be a good player, but he won't ever be good enough to justify our taking him over two All-Star PG's. MW's ceiling isn't quite high enough. Wouldn't be surprised if he's an AS a couple of times in his career, though. Just don't bet on it.

[chillzatl]

your disappointment is based on draft pick expectations and Marvins own inability to be consistent in the post at this point in his career. Woodson hasn't turned him into anything, he's simply using him in the way that's going to get the most consistency out of him at the NBA level and at this point in his career. Marvin's strong suit up to this point hasn't been post play, it's been his smooth jumper (and even that has failed him at times) and his ability to take people off the dribble and get into the paint (which improved a good bit as the season went on).

Marvin's development is coming along just fine and would likely be further along if it were not for the injuries. Despite the differences in their games, you need not look any further than Josh Smith for proof of this. His second year stats are almost a mirror of Josh's in his second season and just like Josh, Marvin still has a lot of improvement left in him. Nobody is disappointed in what we've gotten from Josh this year and they shouldn't be disappointed in Marvin.

It's hard not to put high expectations on him because of where he was drafted, but we have to keep it all in perspective. He was drafted as a young, raw player with lots of potential and we have to keep that in mind when placing expectations on him.

[LastDon]

The games that I watch he either gets a bucket or a foul 60 percent of the time when he is in the post. something that the average person who just reads boxscores wouldn't know. I find it very dissappointing that a veteran like yourself Chillz(Old AJC Posting Days) would take up for the worst coach in NBA history. I would much rather have Tim Floyd than Mike Woodson as coach of the hawks. He has totally miss used Marvin Williams in the offense. The sweet stroke would be even more effective if was used like Jamal Mashburn instead of Steve Kerr!!!!!!!!1

[Packfill]

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your disappointment is based on draft pick expectations and Marvins own inability to be consistent in the post at this point in his career. Woodson hasn't turned him into anything, he's simply using him in the way that's going to get the most consistency out of him at the NBA level and at this point in his career. Marvin's strong suit up to this point hasn't been post play, it's been his smooth jumper (and even that has failed him at times) and his ability to take people off the dribble and get into the paint (which improved a good bit as the season went on).

Marvin's development is coming along just fine and would likely be further along if it were not for the injuries. Despite the differences in their games, you need not look any further than Josh Smith for proof of this. His second year stats are almost a mirror of Josh's in his second season and just like Josh, Marvin still has a lot of improvement left in him. Nobody is disappointed in what we've gotten from Josh this year and they shouldn't be disappointed in Marvin.

It's hard not to put high expectations on him because of where he was drafted, but we have to keep it all in perspective. He was drafted as a young, raw player with lots of potential and we have to keep that in mind when placing expectations on him.

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Here is what I do not understand - why is Marvin considered a young raw player when one of the reasons for drafting him with the second pick was because he was so "skilled" (i.e., good shooting form, supposedly good handles, etc.). Isn't the definition of someone who is "raw" more the guy without discernable NBA skills (kinda like Smoove coming into the NBA)?

The biggest things holding Marvin back right now are his lack of physical strength and lack of aggression. Gaining strength will probably make him less timid.

[thesheedera]

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Isn't the definition of someone who is "raw" more the guy without discernable NBA skills (kinda like Smoove coming into the NBA)?

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I struggle with this too. I think it comes down to the idea that Marvin has the different tools to be a great offensive player, but his "game" is raw, in that he doesn't know how, when, why to best use those tools when playing. He's got these different abilities but he has to polish them and learn to use them together the right way.

Smith does a better job using the limited skills he came into the league with by being more assertive and taking more chances. Smith ahs had lower lowpoints because he's willing to take those chances, but I think he's gained more from that risk as well. He also has more God given phsysical characteristics to use to his advantage.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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your disappointment is based on draft pick expectations and Marvins own inability to be consistent in the post at this point in his career. Woodson hasn't turned him into anything, he's simply using him in the way that's going to get the most consistency out of him at the NBA level and at this point in his career. Marvin's strong suit up to this point hasn't been post play, it's been his smooth jumper (and even that has failed him at times) and his ability to take people off the dribble and get into the paint (which improved a good bit as the season went on).

Marvin's development is coming along just fine and would likely be further along if it were not for the injuries. Despite the differences in their games, you need not look any further than Josh Smith for proof of this. His second year stats are almost a mirror of Josh's in his second season and just like Josh, Marvin still has a lot of improvement left in him. Nobody is disappointed in what we've gotten from Josh this year and they shouldn't be disappointed in Marvin.

It's hard not to put high expectations on him because of where he was drafted, but we have to keep it all in perspective. He was drafted as a young, raw player with lots of potential and we have to keep that in mind when placing expectations on him.

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Excellent post. These cry-baby fans see #2 pick, and think he should be a superstar right away. Well, most #2 picks aren't. I'd gladly take 13 ppg and 6 rebs from Marvin this year. But I wanted the FG% to be higher, at least over 45%. Let's see if he'll become a more efficient scorer next year and possibly get to the line a little more. If he can do that, it'll help this team tremendously, espeically if a guy like JJ or Smoove is having a bad night.

[mrhonline]

Each of the past two years, I've pointed out how well the young guys play after the All-Star break as signs of their improvement.

Marvin is no different: 14/6 on 45% FG.

Personally, I'd like to see him become more of a 3 pt. threat. He's better suited to play on the perimeter than Smith.

[chillzatl]

It's a matter of perception I guess. Some people want to perceive him as a #2 pick and a key player from an NCAA championship winning team and they base their expectations on that. Other people choose to see him as a 19 year old kid who was talented and had loads of potential, but would still be a development project in the NBA. You also can't read too much into anything Billy Knight says ahead of drafts. Depending on the day Billy can see things from either perspective or one that nobody else even considered.

[LastDon]

This thread is really not about Marvin it's about on draft day would you take Marvin with all of his hype coming out of UNC and you some how knew that year one he would Average 8ppg and year 2 average 13ppg.

IF WE HAD DRAFTED 1ST INSTEAD OF SECOND AND TOOK BOGUT WITH THE FIRST PICK.

WHO WOULD YOU DRAFT IF YOU WERE MILWAKEE A TEAM WITH A STABLE POINT GUARD SITUATION AND YOU KNEW THE AFOREMENTIONED INFORMATION ON MARVIN?

AND WOULD YOU BE SATISFIED?

[chillzatl]

There's a huge difference in supporting Woodson and blindly blaming him for every perceived problem with the team. Much like Josh Smith last year, he just isn't capable of doing the things you think he should be doing consistently enough at the NBA level and isn't asked or expected to.

[Packfill]

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It's a matter of perception I guess. Some people want to perceive him as a #2 pick and a key player from an NCAA championship winning team and they base their expectations on that. Other people choose to see him as a 19 year old kid who was talented and had loads of potential, but would still be a development project in the NBA. You also can't read too much into anything Billy Knight says ahead of drafts. Depending on the day Billy can see things from either perspective or one that nobody else even considered.

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I wasn't basing my statements on anything BK said but on all of the scouting reports and expert commentary that was provided prior to and after Marvin was drafted.

Hopefully Marvin steps up in his third year but I cannot help but think that BK permanently damaged this franchise by not getting a franchise point guard when he had the chance.

[chillzatl]

that's just dwelling on the past. I think most people here know who we should have taken, but that's irrelevant at this point.

[LastDon]

I think the outcome would be better than calling plays for ZaZa in the post and watching him turn the ball over or miss three or four easy attempts under the basket.

Shelden Williams was a monster in the post at Duke and rarely receives any inside touches for us and I guess we must automatically assume that since Woody want give him the ball that he is incapable.

If so it's b/s!!!!!!! I'm going on the record and saying that Marvin and Shelden should have had more plays called for them on the low block because with the limited touches they received they proved to me that they are more effective than Z and Josh Smith(on the block).

[chillzatl]

Like I said, you can't read too much into anything BK says, as he doesn't say things for our benefit.

I don't think he's hurt the team beyond repair. Talent is talent and talent is always needed. As long as we can retain our talent, we have a very large window to make things right.

[LastDon]

is before any of those guys ever played a game would you be satisfied with 8ppg year one and 13ppg year two during the area when BK sold us his 96 minutes of bullshit theory.

That's when Bk said that it would plenty enough minutes at forward for harrington,smith,williams to be effective.

[chillzatl]

well that's the rub isn't it? Some people choose to think that Woodson is just an idiot and isn't capable of doing anything right, but he's the one that watches him every day in practice. He may not be perfect but between himself and the rest of his staff, I'm sure they're all bright enough to see what a player, a young player, is capable of doing at the NBA level on a consistent basis.

[AHF]

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is before any of those guys ever played a game would you be satisfied with 8ppg year one and 13ppg year two.

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For me the answer would be "no" but that is an impossible hypothetical akin to asking if I would take Paul knowing that he would miss over 20% of the season due to injury. There is no way to know information like that and it is not a complete picture anyway.

[CBAreject]

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Excellent post. These cry-baby fans see #2 pick, and think he should be a superstar right away.

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"Superstar right away"? I don't think anyone expects him to be a "superstar" yet. I don't think anyone would say that 2 full years into his career is "right away". Which "cry-baby fans" are you talking about, then?

Marvin wouldn't start on most NBA teams right now, so let's not even talk about "superstar" status. I was expecting Marvin to be at least an average NBA starting forward at this point. He is not. He will be, eventually, but "average" is not what the #2 pick is supposed to be.