Wurider Speaks to the Hypocites and Haters???

[Dejay]

I don't recall ANY mock drafts with Childress ahead of Deng or Iguodala (except BK's). I've been at Childress since he's been here because he doesn't have the ability to pull and fire from the outside without needing an eternity to get off his shot let alone consistently knock down shots with a hand in his face. To me, that's the prerequisite of being an NBA shooting guard (a good one, anyway). However, I won't deny that he's a decent pro; he's just not the guy I would've selected with the 6th pick. My selection would've been Deng then Iguodala because of my belief that Jameer Nelson would've been available at #17 to fill out the vacant PG position. That was my stance 3 years ago; it remains my stance today.

[AtLaS]

I know man, you'll come to learn that nbasuperstar makes all these outrageous claims everytime he comes around. It's really not even worth responding to, but it comes off so ignorant that I just can't resist.

Oh and he still claims to be an NBA scout, yet he spells every other word that he types wrong..

[Joker]

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I know man, you'll come to learn that nbasuperstar makes all these outrageous claims everytime he comes around. It's really not even worth responding to, but it comes off so ignorant that I just can't resist.

Oh and he still claims to be an NBA scout, yet he spells every other word that he types wrong..

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how did my name end up in here... man if you don't like me, whatever, but don't go on different topics blowing it up spam .

[AtLaS]

What are you talking about, you already have like 10 posts in this thread.

[Joker]

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What are you talking about, you already have like 10 posts in this thread.

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I left after M. Williams talk ended. There was nothing left for me to say.

[AtLaS]

That's because you didn't read what I was replying too, I didn't bring you back in. Dejay asked (as in the title) "Atlas, he couldn't be serious could he?" I replied in such manner, because frankly I don't see how you were serious.. Even if you were, all those claims were proven wrong.

[Joker]

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That's because you didn't read what I was replying too, I didn't bring you back in. Dejay asked (as in the title) "Atlas, he couldn't be serious could he?" I replied in such manner, because frankly I don't see how you were serious.. Even if you were, all those claims were proven wrong.

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How, you need to prove on this one buddy, reaching is cool, but your taking it too far.

[AtLaS]

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That's because you didn't read what I was replying too, I didn't bring you back in. Dejay asked (as in the title) "Atlas, he couldn't be serious could he?" I replied in such manner, because frankly I don't see how you were serious.. Even if you were, all those claims were proven wrong.

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How, you need to prove on this one buddy, reaching is cool, but your taking it too far.

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1. You said ESPN influenced us into taking Marvin.

2. You said BK would have been fired if he had taken Paul, and would never again get another job, as if you can predict the future.

3. You said ESPN praised us for the Marvin pick, which in fact it was the opposite, they bashed to no end.

You made all these claims, and none were supported by a link or article.

You don't seem to know what your argument is, you just make these random claims (with no evidence) and act as if they are true. Then when they get proven wrong, you make MORE claims to try an boost your credibility, and none of these claims have been supported by a link, or an article, or anything to say what you suggest is correct.

[Joker]

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That's because you didn't read what I was replying too, I didn't bring you back in. Dejay asked (as in the title) "Atlas, he couldn't be serious could he?" I replied in such manner, because frankly I don't see how you were serious.. Even if you were, all those claims were proven wrong.

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How, you need to prove on this one buddy, reaching is cool, but your taking it too far.

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1. You said ESPN influenced us into taking Marvin.

2. You said BK would have been fired if he had taken Paul, and would never again get another job, as if you can predict the future.

3. You said ESPN praised us for the Marvin pick, which in fact it was the opposite, they bashed to no end.

You made all these claims, and none were supported by a link or article.

You don't seem to know what your argument is, you just make these random claims (with no evidence) and act as if they are true. Then when they get proven wrong, you make MORE claims to try an boost your credibility, and none of these claims have been supported by a link, or an article, or anything to say what you suggest is correct.

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1. ESPN would bashed us and hampered the organization is what I said.

2. That is true and it wouldn't bother me or you but it would bother Knight.

3. No I said ESPN praised us for the most part as well as NBATV, Chad Ford always bashes the Hawks. Dicky V is a College basketball guy, I'll leave it at that.

These are facts what I say, I remember it happen and I have great memory, someone wrong and it's not me.

[AtLaS]

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1. ESPN would bashed us and hampered the organization is what I said.

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ESPN "would bashed us," what does this even mean? If you are saying that they "would have bashed us," then you are suggesting that you can predict the future. As if you KNOW they would have bashed us when there is no evidence to support your argument.

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2. That is true and it wouldn't bother me or you but it would bother Knight.

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Again, how do you KNOW that Knight would have been fired? Once again, you are claiming that you can predict the future that Knight would have been fired.

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3. No I said ESPN praised us for the most part as well as NBATV, Chad Ford always bashes the Hawks. Dicky V is a College basketball guy, I'll leave it at that.

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Since they for the most part praised it (as you say), please show me evidence of this, as you have yet to do so.

[bfwolf]

I think there are two different ways to look at the draft. From an input standpoint and from an output standpoint.

From an input standpoint (i.e. what people knew entering the draft, what general consensus was), BK has made one great pick, one average pick and two bad picks with his 1st round picks the last 3 years. Deng and Iggy were both higher-rated prospects than Childress for a team that needed to take BPA and needed as much talent as possible. Childress was a polished college player and had the least upside of all 3. Josh Smith was a big-time talent and a consensus good pick at the time at #17. Marvin Williams was considered to be possibly the most talented player in the draft, while Paul and Deron Williams were considered slightly less talented but played a need position for the Hawks. For a 13 win Hawk team, I can understand why BK selected Marvin. He wanted talent. However, an excellent argument could've (and was by many) made that Marvin's talent gap vs. Paul/Deron wasn't great enough to make up for the position need that Paul/Deron would fill. So I'll call that an average pick. Finally, Shelden Williams was a very poor input pick. Brandon Roy was the Pac 10 player of the year and the guy that most people were saying would win ROY heading into the draft. Shelden Williams was considered a mid 1st round pick and was not a center or PG, the position the Hawks really needed filled. Shelden could be considered a slightly better position fill than Roy because he was a defensive presence in college, but the talent gap was so huge, this was a terrible input pick. Especially when BK made an insane promise to a guy 10 picks too high, and didn't trade down and pick somebody else up along with him.

From an output standpoint, BK made a great pick, a fairly bad pick, and two awful picks. Josh Smith is turning into a really strong player for a #17 pick. Childress is a nice player, but the alternatives (Deng and Iggy) are superior. Marvin is not living up to potential so far and Paul/Deron Williams are future All Stars at a position of need. Shelden Williams is workmanlike but overmatched while Roy is the ROY and appears to be able to play some PG.

All in all, BK has done a poor job from both an input and output standpoint.

[Diesel]

The mocks changed over and over again. For the longest time, Smoove was considered a top 5 pick. Chillz was supposed to be the Wizards pick in one of the earlier mocks. Movement started and Chillz ended up 6th and Smoove 17th.

[Wurider05]

I knew that I was correct about Childress going to the Wizards. Diesel do you remember why Smoove and Deng fell?

[Guest Walter]

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I think there are two different ways to look at the draft. From an input standpoint and from an output standpoint.

From an input standpoint (i.e. what people knew entering the draft, what general consensus was), BK has made one great pick, one average pick and two bad picks with his 1st round picks the last 3 years.

From an output standpoint, BK made a great pick, a fairly bad pick, and two awful picks. All in all, BK has done a poor job from both an input and output standpoint.

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I believe from an input standpoint we've made 3 bad 1st rd picks and one very good one. Otherwise I agree. Childress was a bad 1st rd pick. Doesn't mean he isn't a decent player, but he's still a bad pick. He wasn't NEARLY as good nor did he have NEARLY as much trade value as Deng or Iggy. And, despite Wurider's ridiculous claim NOBODY listed Childress higher than them. Really no excuse.

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[Diesel]

Deng fell because the word on him was that his shooting was mechanical and that he would never develop an outside shot.

Smoove fell because Bernie Bickerstaff said some very bad things about Smoove after Smoove completed a joint workout.

Bottom line is that the so-called experts are not really evaluating talent, they only talk about players as to where they think some team will take them. That's why the mocks change the way they do... It's not based on where they should go, but based on who's more likely to pick them. I think sometimes, fans get confused about this.

[AHF]

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Deng fell because the word on him was that his shooting was mechanical and that he would never develop an outside shot.

Smoove fell because Bernie Bickerstaff said some very bad things about Smoove after Smoove completed a joint workout.

Bottom line is that the so-called experts are not really evaluating talent, they only talk about players as to where they think some team will take them. That's why the mocks change the way they do... It's not based on where they should go, but based on who's more likely to pick them. I think sometimes, fans get confused about this.

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I think the mocks are actually based on where people should go until just before the draft when they make some changes based on where they think players will go. Check out nbadraft.net or draft express, etc. and they will state they are not yet taking into account team needs, etc. and are ranking purely based on where someone should be selected in their eyes.

So you are right for most final mocks but you can look a little earlier to see where they were ranked based on the opinion of the draft service.

[Packfill]

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As much as I dislike BK you cannot say that he doesn't have an eye for talent. I can not think of one player that he drafted that you can call a bust. He knows talent. The problem is that in the 2005 draft the consensus was that Marvin and Bogut were without a doubt the best players in the draft and that they would go 1 and 2. All he did was follow the general consensus. If MArvin would have went 1 then we would have drafted Bogut. Having said that even though we need a point guard and a center half of you guys would love to draft Durant even though his position replicates one that we have. Samething this year either he or Oden will go first and that is the general consensus. For all of you Marvin haters how can you guys not see the talent that he possess and the improvement that he has made. I never recalled anyone saying that he was going to come in right away and produce 25ppg and 12 rpg. You guys are entitled to your opinions but how can you watch the hawks and say that he is a bust. Are you guys even watching the games!!!

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I disagree with this post entirely.

If BK had a real eye for talent then he would have at least picked one player with superstar potential considering he had 3 high lottery picks to work with. As it turns out, on each occassion he did not pick the right guy.

As for BK going with "consensus" in picking Marvin, that is not a sound basis to defend the pick as BK went against consensus in picking Chill (over Deng and Iggy) and picking Sheldon (over Roy and Foye).

BK has esentially positioned this franchise to be mediocre with his picks and he has consistently failed to fill the two most difficult positions to fill on the court - center and point guard.

[Wurider05]

He does have an eye for talent but not the right talent for the current situation that team was in. As a basketball player Marvin was a great pick but he was the wrong pick for a team that needed a point guard. Like John Kerry said in the last election " Don't confuse the soldier with the war".

[Packfill]

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He does have an eye for talent but not the right talent for the current situation that team was in. As a basketball player Marvin was a great pick but he was the wrong pick for a team that needed a point guard. Like John Kerry said in the last election " Don't confuse the soldier with the war".

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I don't know man. I still don't see "it" in Marvin. I see Rashard Lewis. Decent player but not a game changer. Paul or Deron were head and shoulders better then Marvin in college and so far in the pros. I didn't like the pick then and I like it less two years later.

And I still do not think BK has a good eye for talent. Why didn't he take Deng or Iggy over Chill? What was he thinking with Sheldon?

Why has he not been able to at least get a developmental type point guard in here? Why can Toronto get Calderon? Portland a Sergio? Boston a Rondo? Milwaukee signing a Mo Williams on the Cheap a few years ago? Chicago getting a Duhon? None of those guys were lottery picks, and other then Rondo none were 1st rounders.

Where are BK's great finds? Don't Say Smoove - that was a hometown pick that anyone GM or basketball fan would have made.

[Guest Walter]

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He does have an eye for talent but not the right talent for the current situation that team was in. As a basketball player Marvin was a great pick but he was the wrong pick for a team that needed a point guard. Like John Kerry said in the last election " Don't confuse the soldier with the war".

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Then why does he pick the third worst lottery possibility in three consecutive years. THAT is NOT an "eye for talent". That is incompetence.

Frankly, even if you didn't "need" a Pg MW hasn't turned out to be a good pick. He doesn't have NEAR the value of Paul or Deron. Not to mention that Chill and SW were in neither case remotely the BPA or the most value available.

Frankly, regarding these 3 picks BK has DONE NOTHING REMOTELY CORRECT! BK succeeded in acquiring the least amount of player and player capitol conceivably possible. 75% of the fans in this forum couldn't be this incompetent if they tried and 90% of those who could wouldn't have promised SW.

"BK knows talent" like Bo knows knitting. He's just about horrible when it comes to the top talent because he let's his ego get in the way.

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