Luol Deng and Hawksquawk...

[Hoosier]

Yea that's right. In Bk's mind he was the sure talent. Paul was short, Deron was out of shape, Felton was not your classic PG variety. Marvin did everything above average or exceptional, especially for someone his age and size.

If Childress played somewhere else, in a real system, who knows what his numbers would look like. I think it is amazing any of these guys put up decent numbers under Woody. Then you all would be salivating over him instead of Deng it. He has all the tools.

[Guest Walter]

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BK is what he is, does not take chances, and goes for the odds-on sure thing.

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Marvin, Smoove, Diaw were sure things??? What about dealing Shareef and change for the rights to Gasol when he was at Memphis.

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I haven't seen that inspiration from BK in ATlanta . Only incompetence.

W

[AtLaS]

Even when he's not with the Hawks he finds ways to screw us..

[exodus]

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Yea that's right. In Bk's mind he was the sure talent. Paul was short, Deron was out of shape, Felton was not your classic PG variety. Marvin did everything above average or exceptional, especially for someone his age and size.

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That is lying at worst, revisionist history at best.

Paul measured taller than expected, 5'11 3/4" w/o shoes and also had a 38" vertical.

Deron was in great shape for the draft and tested extremely well at the combine. He actually timed faster than Paul in the lane agility test and had a 35" vertical (same as Marvin). He also lost weight before the draft and weighed in at 202.

Marvin was widely reported as being out of shape for his workouts. He showed no offensive game in college other than making catch and shoot jumpers and getting to the foul line.

[Hoosier]

Paul is still listed at 6'0" in the players guide, why not 6'2"? He sure looks 6'0" to me. A player that is out of shape after the tournament, and then gets in shape for draft day could throw up some red flags? Some GMs just do not like taking PGs that high anyway, because they are more of a crap shoot than other positions, and good ones have been found out of the first round.

Again, the sure thing was someone with MWs size and skill level. There is nothing revisionary about, the NBA scouting community was almost unanimous about that. It truely would have been rolling the dice to pass on MW and take Paul or Deron. The only thing revisionary, is everyone jumping on the bandwagon, after the careers Paul and D.Williams have had.

This is through BKs eyes, not necessarily mine, even though I did want MW. You and everyone else can play fantasy basketball, but this team that he has assembled can compete with anyone. They just can't finish close games yet because they do not have a Coach/PG.

[exodus]

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Again, the sure thing was someone with MWs size and skill level. There is nothing revisionary about, the NBA scouting community was almost unanimous about that.

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Again that is revisionist history. NOBODY was arguing that Marvin had better skills than Paul or Deron. They were arguing that he had more potential, more "upside".

The only real skill Marvin showed in college was the form on his jumper.

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A player that is out of shape after the tournament, and then gets in shape for draft day could throw up some red flags?

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That is just dumb. Deron played big minutes for a championship team. If he was out of shape it would have shown up during the season.

What happened is that Deron knew the scouts had concerns about his weight and conditioning so he greatly improved both. Meanwhile Marvin let his conditioning go to pot after the season ended and didn't bother to stay in shape for the most important workouts of his life.

[TexasPete]

This team plays in a lousy conference and still sucks so "competing" isn't exactly what they do best. Imagine if we had taken Deron Williams and Deng. That is a team that could compete.

Chill as a safe pick? Your kidding right? Over Deng? ANYONE who looks at that UGLY ASS shot knows this guy is limited as to how good he will ever become. When a guy has a shot that slow and a release point down around his belt, that is a major issue. Shawn Marion has a quicker flick, Childress has to be wide open.

For all the crap Marvin takes, look at the numbers between he and Childress. Not much difference especially when Chill is 3 years older.

Deng was obvious when he fell to us but Billy Knucklehead has a strange body type he likes and Childress fits it. Just give me the damn guy that can play.

[GST]

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Chill as a safe pick? Your kidding right? Over Deng? ANYONE who looks at that UGLY ASS shot knows this guy is limited as to how good he will ever become. When a guy has a shot that slow and a release point down around his belt, that is a major issue. Shawn Marion has a quicker flick, Childress has to be wide open.

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I have usually been positive on BK, but I have to admit that the above comment is dead on. Chill wasn't on my radar before the '94 draft, and when I saw him put up that ugly shot, I was like "What have we done?" To this day, he cannot get that shot off under defensive pressure. That ugly shot, and Chill's lower than average quickness measurements at the scouting combine, should have put him below both Deng and Iggy. It is inexplicable why BK took him.

[Guest Walter]

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Yea that's right. In Bk's mind he was the sure talent. Paul was short, Deron was out of shape, Felton was not your classic PG variety. Marvin did everything above average or exceptional, especially for someone his age and size.

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That is lying at worst, revisionist history at best.

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Not to mention that Marvin was the most out of shape of any of the above. He did everything above average but win in HS, be the man in college, prepare AT ALL for the NBA draft, or even watch the sport. Now that's a guy you want to draft 2nd. Of course, he's going to get the "he's young" excuse.

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Marvin was widely reported as being out of shape for his workouts. He showed no offensive game in college other than making catch and shoot jumpers and getting to the foul line.

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Exactly. I'll NEVER unstand the hype then or now.

W

[TexasPete]

It's also completely inexplicable why he took Shelden Williams when he already had THREE other forwards. He already had one lottery pick coming off the bench because of his drafting of Marvin and then he goes and takes ANOTHER damn forward? If Shelden was going to the 4 then that puts Smith at the 3 and the number 2 pick in the draft off the bench, just like his number 6 pick from the previous year. If the thinking was that Smoove and Marvin would both start then why draft SW? We can't afford to keep using high lottery picks on guys coming off the bench. Teams that suck for 8 years usually need to focus on drafting definite STARTERS with high picks. Not BK. We have GLARING holes on this starting unit and this asswipe keeps drafting backups?

Lawsuit or not, if the ASG retains Woodson and Knight they are truly incompetant and hopeless. BK has just mangled the entire process from his lousy drafting to his free agent signings...to his acquiring backup PG's late in the year for a team headed nowhere. This GM is just horribly incompetant in his job which matches his coach who was just given an F grade in the local paper. Seems like everybody gets this deal but the ASG.

[Buzzard]

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Yep anyone even thinks Childress is in same class as IGGy or Deng are being foolish homers. BK has some made horrible picks thats why we are so bad right and people want this guy to get a top 3 lottery pick what the hell for. This guy has a top lottery pick the past 3 seasons and everyone of the picks could have been better. You dont give an idiot with this kind of track record another lottery pick he is a clueless GM. Deng/IGGy, Paul/Deron, Roy/Foye/Rondo enough said this guy is a joke and we are still one of the laughing stocks of the league...

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I agree with almost all of this. If we get the 1st or 2nd pick this year, I do not think even BK can screw that up.

[Dejay]

If BK had drafted Deng and Paul/Williams, we'd be talking about which sections we had our playoff tickets in, how we could play and/or beat anyone in the East (except Detroit), and where all of us should meet at CNN Center before Game 2 tonight because we would've won the SE division and had homecourt in the first round (you're telling me a PG who gets 17/9 and a small forward getting 18/8 wouldn't make a staggering difference, along with a healthy JJ who wouldn't have to carry the squad?). We'd clog up the ESPN blogs killing Bill Simmons, Chad Ford, and the rest for attempting to bandwagon our team. We'd be laughing our collective ASSES off at Phoenix for getting fleeced in the JJ deal and talking about how our starting lineup (Paul, JJ, Deng, Smith, Zaza/whatever) will soon be the dominant force in the NBA that others will try to emulate and copy. We would be joining KB as being total BK and Woodson homers for their 'vision' and stand in unison cheering as we watch them collect their 2nd executive and coach of the year trophies (with these guys, the team likely would've competed for a playoff spot LAST YEAR).

And Steve Belkin would see the success, the sellouts, and settle quietly because he know that he would never, EVER be welcome in this town again.

Oh well, what the hell would we know???

[mudderfudder77]

Needless to say I am very happy that the Bulls took Deng at 7.

Edit: I like Childress, I really do - he seems like a good guy. But Deng was severely under-rated by almost everyone not in a scouting position. He didn't have the flash of other players, and he was from Duke. I'm glad that we got him, and I'm glad that he had a chance to shine in the playoffs (he missed the first playoffs with a wrist injury and played awful in last years series).

[mudderfudder77]

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Childress is not quite the offensive player of a Deng or Iggy,

but he has more skills than either one individually

. Childress is a better playmaker/ballhandler/defender than Deng.

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Others have addressed this, but that is just flat out wrong.

Deng has more points, assists, rebounds, steals, and shoots a better percentage (albeit in a minute and a half more a game)

Oh, and Deng is two years younger...

[AtLaS]

The assists and steals are essentially even, Luol doesn't really have much of an advantage there. He's a slightly better rebounder, and a much better scorer. His FG% is slightly higher because Childress takes more threes.

However, I'm not disputing that Deng is a MUCH better player..

My question is, how do you post here (and have been registered since 02) if you aren't even a Hawks fan? I'm not bashing you, just wondering..

[mudderfudder77]

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The assists and steals are essentially even, Luol doesn't really have much of an advantage there. He's a slightly better rebounder, and a much better scorer. His FG% is

slightly

higher because Childress takes more threes.

However, I'm not disputing that Deng is a MUCH better player..

My question is, how do you post here (and have been registered since 02) if you aren't even a Hawks fan? I'm not bashing you, just wondering..

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I originally started coming here to read the Insider articles. I like the Hawks (I'm actually typing this from Atlanta - I work quite a bit out of an Atlanta office) but I am originally from Chicago, so the Bulls are my team. I've explained this a few times (no offense to you please).

And the post wasn't meant to show that Dengs numbers are so much better than Childress (because they are not). But I don't understand how Childress could have so much more individual talent and yet Deng has better numbers in nearly every category.

[AtLaS]

Yeah that post was way off base. I wanted Iggy, but Deng would have worked just as well. Either way, just another BK draft blunder.

[Guest Walter]

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If BK had drafted Deng and Paul/Williams, we'd be talking about which sections we had our playoff tickets in, how we could play and/or beat anyone in the East (except Detroit), and where all of us should meet at CNN Center before Game 2 tonight because we would've won the SE division and had homecourt in the first round (you're telling me a PG who gets 17/9 and a small forward getting 18/8 wouldn't make a staggering difference, along with a healthy JJ who wouldn't have to carry the squad?). We'd clog up the ESPN blogs killing Bill Simmons, Chad Ford, and the rest for attempting to bandwagon our team. We'd be laughing our collective ASSES off at Phoenix for getting fleeced in the JJ deal and talking about how our starting lineup (Paul, JJ, Deng, Smith, Zaza/whatever) will soon be the dominant force in the NBA that others will try to emulate and copy. We would be joining KB as being total BK and Woodson homers for their 'vision' and stand in unison cheering as we watch them collect their 2nd executive and coach of the year trophies (with these guys, the team likely would've competed for a playoff spot LAST YEAR).

And Steve Belkin would see the success, the sellouts, and settle quietly because he know that he would never, EVER be welcome in this town again.

Oh well, what the hell would we know???

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Not only does BK NOT "know talent" (roll eyes) his incompetence has denied us a great bit more than people here are willing to admit. This franchise wouldn't need a double and a triple (at the Pg and C positions) now but rather a single (at the center position) had we gotten Deng and Paul/Deron. Why ANYONE would defend such incompetence is beyond a sane man's reasoning.

W

[TexasPete]

Childress numbers look suspiciously like Marvin Williams numbers. The Marvin that takes total crap from 95% of the board. Marvin is THREE YEARS YOUNGER for crying out loud!!!

The fact that Childress gets a pass from many is ridiculous...if your going to bash Marvin feel free to give the three year older Chill more crap. At least Marvin can get a shot with somebody in his zip code.

BK's picks, except Smith, are a disgrace.

[exodus]

This comparison between Deng and Childress is a joke.