Crittenton in draft

[Guest Walter]

It's a little sad to be saying this, but true.

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We may differ on which of the three is best, but we should all agree that this draft gives us an incredible opportunity to get a franchise PG. It's a 3 horse race, and honestly they're close enough that none of us should feel the need to tear apart any of them unfairly (and inaccurately) to make arguments for the guy we want more. Let's not resort to hyperbole with this discussion, let's try and keep the pro and con discussion on a respectable level.

Personally, I like Conley the best, probably put Crit second, and Law 3rd. I just haven't seen enough of Law and my perception of him as a combo guard doesn't excite me as much as my perception of the other guys as true PGs (I think Crit is a true PG).

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Well said.

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But I'm not gonna start bashing Law, calling him a slow Salim Stoudamire, or claiming he's a loser or something. These guys are the creme of the crop, we should be able to discuss them without getting ridiculous and imaginative with our negativity on the guys we don't prefer.

I just hope that Hawksquawk as a whole can discuss the pros and cons of these players without resorting to

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After the workouts I may change my mind with any of these three. I like 1a) Crittenton over 1b) Conley with 2) Law. I want a player that could potentially dominate at his position, not just adequately man it. But again, with BK's track record we're fools to want more than the lesser of many 6'8" players.

W

[mrhonline]

I'm bothered that many of the people who criticize Knight for taking a chance on a raw, unproven freshman who many "experts" considered the player with the *most* upside in his draft...

...are now advocating the selection of a raw, unproven freshman who some "experts" now consider to have the *most* upside at his position.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that Javaris won't contribute consistently at the PG position for at least 2-3 seasons. What will some of you do if Conley and/or Law are much more successful early in their careers? Wouldn't that be Marvin-Paul/Deron all over again?

Are you sure you really want Knight to take Javaris?

[Guest Walter]

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I'm bothered that many of the people who criticize Knight for taking a chance on a raw, unproven freshman who

many

"experts" considered the player with the *most* upside

in his draft

...

...are now advocating the selection of a raw, unproven freshman who

some

"experts" now consider to have the *most* upside

at his position

.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that Javaris won't contribute consistently at the PG position for at least 2-3 seasons.

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When MW was selected we had several lotterys to look forward to and hope to pick up a superstar so there wasn't desperation (Mind you, I GD-well knew MW was as far from "superstar" as a hyped UNC player can get.). 2ndly, last I looked both Paul/Deron and Crittenton (STILL) play a harder to fill position of NEED! 3rdly, this is the 11th not the 2nd pick.

Our rebuild is more desperate for talent now that it's ever been and the positional need remais just as strong if not stronger.

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[AtLaS]

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...are now advocating the selection of a raw, unproven freshman who

some

"experts" now consider to have the *most* upside

at his position

.

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If you think Javaris is raw and unproven, then you think Conley is also. Javaris DEFINITELY proved he had the ability to take over games last year, and did so numerous times, ESPECIALLY at the end of games. He's already bigger, a much better shooter, much better FT shooter, better rebounder, and averages as many assists (0.3 less) as Conley. Sure he has turned it over more, but in the NBA he won't be expected to do as much and handle the full load as he is on GT.

Conley isn't going to be ready right away either, so I don't know why you keep mentioning that. Conley is skinny and can't shoot, he only averaged 11 and 6, is that really that much to get all hyped about? What makes him SO much better a prospect than Crittenton? If anything SCREAMS "average NBA PG" it's Conley.

[mrhonline]

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If you think Javaris is raw and unproven, then you think Conley is also.

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Not really comparable IMO. Conley had Ohio State ranked in the top 5 even without Oden. He also helped keep OSU in the tournament when Oden was in foul trouble.

Javaris failed miserably vs. UNLV, and had more than 4 turnovers in eleven games. He didn't prove he could run an offense consistently, although he is a good passer. Heck, he hasn't even proven he can play well without dominating the ball.

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Javaris DEFINITELY proved he had the ability to take over games last year, and did so numerous times, ESPECIALLY at the end of games.

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So did Law and Conley, but unlike Javaris, they take much better care of the ball.

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He's already bigger, a much better shooter, much better FT shooter, better rebounder, and averages as many assists (0.3 less) as Conley.

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Javaris is going to be the better shooter for the next 20 years - I don't deny that. What's being argued is that he's not going to be the more successful NBA PG in the near future.

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Sure he has turned it over more, but in the NBA he won't be expected to do as much and handle the full load as he is on GT.

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Then why would the Hawks want him? Isn't what JJ wants is someone to take over the PG duties so that he can look more aggressively to score?

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Conley isn't going to be ready right away either, so I don't know why you keep mentioning that.

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I think most people agree that Conley is far more NBA ready than any other PG in the draft besides Law. Most people expect him to have an immediate impact, but, yes, I'm also skeptical of him, too.

I believe Law would be the safest pick, and Conley the best fit. Crittenton, IMO, is a major reach at #11.

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Conley is skinny and can't shoot, he only averaged 11 and 6, is that really that much to get all hyped about?

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I'll let others answer that. Generally, PG's are measured by two stats: A/TO ratio and team offensive officiency (on vs. off court). The latter is very difficult to quantify.

[exodus]

We got a pick from Indy that was top 10 protected. Early in the year it looked like it would be in the 20s, then it looked like we wouldn't get it this year. Turns out it is the 11th pick, the best possible scenario.

Now that Conley and Javaris have declared we know that one of them or Law will be there at 11, filling a gaping hole we have been griping about for years. Regardless of which one is better i think all 3 will do well in the NBA, hopefully well enough that people wont keep bringing up the Marvin draft pick.

Instead of being thankful for our good fortune now it seems everyone wants to find fault in 3 players who are very good pro prospects at a position we need badly.

[AtLaS]

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Not really comparable IMO. Conley had Ohio State ranked in the top 5 even without Oden. He also helped keep OSU in the tournament when Oden was in foul trouble.

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And Ohio St. was 10x better than GT even without Oden.

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Heck, he hasn't even proven he can play well without dominating the ball.

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This isn't true. One of his "weaknesses" in his draft profile speaks of him being TOO unselfish at times..

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So did Law and Conley, but unlike Javaris, they take much better care of the ball.

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Which is the ONLY thing they have a distinct advantage over Crittenton in.

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Javaris is going to be the better shooter for the next 20 years - I don't deny that. What's being argued is that he's not going to be the more successful NBA PG in the near future.

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I guess we'll have to see on that. I think he'll actually be BETTER from the get-go (if he gets enough PT), Crittenton is just more built for the NBA game.. He just has SO much talent.

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Then why would the Hawks want him? Isn't what JJ wants is someone to take over the PG duties so that he can look more aggressively to score?

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You missed my point. For GT, he is forced to score, pass, handle the ball constantly, takeover at the end of games, EVERYTHING. He won't be asked to completely OWN the game in every aspect as he will have help on this team.

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I think most people agree that Conley is far more NBA ready than any other PG in the draft besides Law. Most people expect him to have an immediate impact, but, yes, I'm also skeptical of him, too.

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I seriously would like to know, what makes Conley better than a healthy Speedy Claxton? Speedy averaged 7.2 assists in college, and scored over 15 ppg his freshman year..

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I'll let others answer that. Generally, PG's are measured by two stats: A/TO ratio and team offensive officiency (on vs. off court). The latter is very difficult to quantify.

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Exactly, but like I say, JC was asked to do a lot more than Conley (even WITHOUT Oden).

[AHF]

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We got a pick from Indy that was top 10 protected. Early in the year it looked like it would be in the 20s, then it looked like we wouldn't get it this year. Turns out it is the 11th pick, the best possible scenario.

Now that Conley and Javaris have declared we know that one of them or Law will be there at 11, filling a gaping hole we have been griping about for years. Regardless of which one is better i think all 3 will do well in the NBA, hopefully well enough that people wont keep bringing up the Marvin draft pick.

Instead of being thankful for our good fortune now it seems everyone wants to find fault in 3 players who are very good pro prospects at a position we need badly.

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I am with you. I have my preferences with the PGs as of now but will only be truly dissappointed if the Hawks don't draft any of them.

[Sothron]

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We got a pick from Indy that was top 10 protected. Early in the year it looked like it would be in the 20s, then it looked like we wouldn't get it this year. Turns out it is the 11th pick, the best possible scenario.

Now that Conley and Javaris have declared we know that one of them or Law will be there at 11, filling a gaping hole we have been griping about for years. Regardless of which one is better i think all 3 will do well in the NBA, hopefully well enough that people wont keep bringing up the Marvin draft pick.

Instead of being thankful for our good fortune now it seems everyone wants to find fault in 3 players who are very good pro prospects at a position we need badly.

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I am with you. I have my preferences with the PGs as of now but will only be truly dissappointed if the Hawks don't draft any of them.

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That is how I feel. I'll take any of the usual suspects at PG. It HAS TO BE better than the parade of backups we've had since Mookie left town.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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...are now advocating the selection of a raw, unproven freshman who

some

"experts" now consider to have the *most* upside

at his position

.

---

If you think Javaris is raw and unproven, then you think Conley is also. Javaris DEFINITELY proved he had the ability to take over games last year, and did so numerous times, ESPECIALLY at the end of games. He's already bigger, a much better shooter, much better FT shooter, better rebounder, and averages as many assists (0.3 less) as Conley. Sure he has turned it over more, but in the NBA he won't be expected to do as much and handle the full load as he is on GT.

Conley isn't going to be ready right away either, so I don't know why you keep mentioning that. Conley is skinny and can't shoot, he only averaged 11 and 6, is that really that much to get all hyped about? What makes him SO much better a prospect than Crittenton? If anything SCREAMS "average NBA PG" it's Conley.

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The Hawks should stay away from JC like he has the Bird Flu. He needs to stay in school at least one more year . . maybe even two more years, to see if he really can handle being a PG, or if he's just a SG with playmaking abilities.

He makes wayyyyy to many questionable decisions at PG, to be considered a good prospect at this time. Compare him to the other 2 PGs in question.

JC had 11 games in which he committed 5 or more turnovers . . . 11. Law did it in 5 games. Conley did it in 1 game.

JC scored 20 points or more in 7 games. Law did it in 18 games. Conley did it in 3 games.

JC had 7 or more assists in 9 games. Law did it in 9 games. Conley did it in 14 games.

It's obvious to see which guys are strong or weak in a certain area. If the Hawks want a playmaker that doesn't turn the ball over, you take Conley. If the Hawks want a complete PG that can do some of everything pretty well, they better hope that Law falls to them at #11. And if it comes down to Law or JC, you choose Law without even thinking twice about it.

People are trying to downplay JC's turnovers, like it's not a big deal. The PG is usually referred to as the "QB of the basketball team". Well . . you wouldn't draft a QB with "potential" very high in the draft, if he had a lot of raw potential, but tend to make horrific decisions with the football.

As much as we all love Josh Smith, he tends to make horiffic decisions with the basketball that leads to turnovers. That's one of his biggest drawbacks as a player right now. Adding JC to the Hawks roster right now, would give us another player that does the exact same thing.

Message to BK:

"BK . . I got a letter from the CDC, and it says that JC has Bird Flu, and might infect the rest of the team. So stay away from him . . even if the other 2 PGs are already off the board."

[Popeye]

Hey Northcyde can you please change that color it hurts my eyes.

Thank you!

[mrhonline]

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That is how I feel. I'll take any of the usual suspects at PG. It HAS TO BE better than the parade of backups we've had since Mookie left town.

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While I understand the frustration, I don't think that Javaris would be significantly better than either Lue or AJ next year. For that matter, neither would Conley. (Law should be able to contribute from game 1, but even he would only be mildly better in his rookie season).

And that's the inherent problem with drafting a PG at this stage. Like I've said before, it's a lot cheaper to draft a decent center than it is to grab one via FA or trade.

Do not be surprised to see the Hawks take a center with their pick. They're expecting Claxton to make a major improvement in his health, and they've already got a good backup in either AJ or Lue.

My gut tells me the Hawks will draft a center and trade for a pass-first PG like Ridnour to pair with Speedy.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I started to write in red, but that was definitely annoying to look at. Blue is a nice color. Maybe bolding the blue would be the best option.

I could go UT orange if you like.

[mrhonline]

I think I'll write in white.

[AHF]

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I started to write in red, but that was definitely annoying to look at.

Blue is a nice color. Maybe bolding the blue would be the best option.

I could go UT orange if you like.

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I would just stick with black!

[AHF]

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I think I'll write in white.

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Nicely done. Even better in bold, though!

[Diesel]

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The Hawks should stay away from JC like he has the Bird Flu. He needs to stay in school at least one more year . . maybe even two more years, to see if he really can handle being a PG, or if he's just a SG with playmaking abilities.

He makes wayyyyy to many questionable decisions at PG, to be considered a good prospect at this time. Compare him to the other 2 PGs in question.

JC had 11 games in which he committed 5 or more turnovers . . . 11. Law did it in 5 games. Conley did it in 1 game.

JC scored 20 points or more in 7 games. Law did it in 18 games. Conley did it in 3 games.

JC had 7 or more assists in 9 games. Law did it in 9 games. Conley did it in 14 games.

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Don't take this the wrong way, but the easy thing to see is the blue color in your post.

Again, I have to say that Conley's stats are somewhat skewed... When you have Oden on the other end of your passes, why won't have you more than 7 assists?

Whereas Law and JC had nobody really. Well Thaddeus.

I do agree with you though... JC needs to stay another year. But if he comes out and gets an agent and if Law is gone, JC is the obvious choice. at least, he's the guy I know BK will take. BK supposedly likes Big PGs... even though JWill, AJ, and Speedy all fail to meet that qualification.

[Sothron]

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That is how I feel. I'll take any of the usual suspects at PG. It HAS TO BE better than the parade of backups we've had since Mookie left town.

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While I understand the frustration, I don't think that Javaris would be significantly better than either Lue or AJ next year. For that matter, neither would Conley. (Law should be able to contribute from game 1, but even he would only be mildly better in his rookie season).

And that's the inherent problem with drafting a PG at this stage. Like I've said before, it's a lot cheaper to draft a decent center than it is to grab one via FA or trade.

Do not be surprised to see the Hawks take a center with their pick. They're expecting Claxton to make a major improvement in his health, and they've already got a good backup in either AJ or Lue.

My gut tells me the Hawks will draft a center and trade for a pass-first PG like Ridnour to pair with Speedy.

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I'm fine with as well. We have glaring, gaping holes at PG and center. We desperately need to improve both.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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That is how I feel. I'll take any of the usual suspects at PG. It HAS TO BE better than the parade of backups we've had since Mookie left town.

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While I understand the frustration, I don't think that Javaris would be significantly better than either Lue or AJ next year. For that matter, neither would Conley. (Law should be able to contribute from game 1, but even he would only be mildly better in his rookie season).

And that's the inherent problem with drafting a PG at this stage. Like I've said before, it's a lot cheaper to draft a decent center than it is to grab one via FA or trade.

Do not be surprised to see the Hawks take a center with their pick. They're expecting Claxton to make a major improvement in his health, and they've already got a good backup in either AJ or Lue.

My gut tells me the Hawks will draft a center and trade for a pass-first PG like Ridnour to pair with Speedy.

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Good post MrH. Although I would love to have Law here, I could definitely see the Hawks going the center route. Contrary to popular belief on this board, we don't lose games because of the lack of a PG. We lose games because too many people score in the paint against us. We have played "perfect" offensive games, and still lost this year. But when we play well on defense, we tend to win.

And as much as I despise Luke, I can deal with paring him up with a PG like Speedy ( although that's a lot of money to be spending on 2 PGs like that ).

It would give us a different dimension at the PG position to bring in off the bench. But Speedy would be the starter, and the guy that I'd want in the game at the end for defense. Luke would never see more than 25 minutes a game, unless he's playing real well.

A Luke - Lue combo would be disasterous, because teams with decent PGs would attack us at will.

Luke being the starter would be disasterous, because he's proven not to be a leader-type PG.

Speedy - Luke might work, because of the contrasts in styles and would give us a variety of looks to go with.

Speedy - Law . . now there's a combo I can deal with. Law gives you all of the shooting ability of a Ty Lue, plus he can create his own shot and get to the hole. And he's a decent enough playmaker to get others involved. And we wouldn't lose much on defense at the position, once Speedy came out of the game.

The Speedy - Law combo could pay immeadiate dividends for the Hawks. Plus, Law's shooting ability will allow him to play the 2 at times.

You could even go with Law - Salim in the backcourt, and still have a lot of offensive firepower on the floor.

LOL . . but since Woody is the coach, he'll stick with the Speedy - Lue combo, until it fizzles out.

Damn . . maybe the Hawks are going to have to trade up for Law, if they really want him. If they don't, they'll probably go for the best big man available at #11.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The blue is in protest of some of the crybaby fans on this board. I might change back to black sometime next week.