Hawks fans just want something new.

[Diesel]

Have you guys listened to yourselves?? I mean really have you listened to yourselves?

"Every post is about how great ___________ is coming out of college and how he's much better than _______________ that plays for the Hawks. I believe _______________ would make us a playoff contender."

I have to ask the question, do you guys even watch college basketball or do you wait for the NCAA tourney and just watch a guy blow up there? A lot of the guys who you guys talk so highly of would not make it off our bench for more than 10 mpg. There is only 2 in this draft who would: Oden and Durant.

I told you before, this draft is not so good after the first 2. I hate to tell you this also but after the first two, #3 should be Noah.

But that's another subject... back to the hawks fans needing something called new!!

Some of you are so stuck on the thought of new that you wouldn't dare agree about trading the pick for an established player..

Let's look at the laundry list:

Conley Jr: Flavor of the week. He really hasn't proved anything and 1 month ago, he was trying to urge Oden to stay at OSU. Ask Marvin why you are supposed to leave when the good players leave. Now let's get technical... Conley Jr's biggest compliment is that he looked so poised in the tourney. Hello Mateen Cleaves. The truth is Conley Jr. is undersized, underweight, not a great shooter and not really what you would call a "pure" PG. He's like Speedy Claxton all over again!

Corey Brewer: If we were talking about a defensive player to compliment Smoove, this is the second guy you want. However, I've been reading about how great Brewer is and how he's guaranteed Allstar. To be an allstar you have to be able to score. Brewer's problem is this, he's not a ball handler, he's not so strong, he hasn't completely developed a move. He can post up pretty good but how many 6'7" guys do you think will be able to post up the Sf position? Plus, he lacks the strength to be able to be a post up Sf. I would love to say he's the next Vince Carter or the Next Paul Pierce, but I don't see it. I think he will be a very good defender (with time) but offensively his game needs lots of development.

Jeff Green: This is the first guy you want if you're going after a defensive player to compliment Smoove. I love Green's game and if he were taller, I would call him Scottie Pippen like. BUT Green can't shoot from 3 and he doesn't score off the dribble so well. He's going to be a great pickup but he's not a Durant or a game changer. He will be a great player to put in a system with veterans (like Detroit). He may end up being better than Deng... but the question is will any of the GTown boys come out?

Roy Hibbert I think I was the first to talk about Hibbert. I still like a lot of what I see in Hibbert and think he will definitely be a good pro. However, he doesn't rebound well nor does he seem to have rebounding footwork down pact. He blocks shots, but I think that's because he's 7'2" in college. In the pros, I don't think his timing is that great. I would love for him to spend a summer with Deke and then both of them come to Atlanta next season, but he won't be a game changer neither. Not right away. Puls, Will he come out?

Al Horford I like some parts of Horford game but there's a lot of work to be done. He has some potential but when did he become 6'10... or even 6'9? I really want to see when Measurements come out. I'm guessing 6'8 1/4. That's not that big of a deal though, it's always about how you play. I think he's more athletic than Shelden but at the same time, Shelden is years ahead of him in terms of development. Shelden has a post move and he has a midrange shot and he has good footwork on offense and defense. Horford lacks in all three areas. Horford works hard though but in this business as in all businesses you work smarter not harder.

Yi JianLian I like this guy because of his name. JianLian. I know nothing about him (that I have seen). I doubt that any of you do either so let's not act like experts. I may have watched him in the world games but i wasn't really paying that much attention. I think being 7 foot is a good thing everyday. Plus I read that he's pretty mobile. That's it though. Honestly, I would rather take a shot at Darko. But I would love to try to come up with a nickname for the newest Hawks: JL...J-Li... YiJiLi. ..YJL! GEELEE.... General Li!! General Yi!!!

[Swatguy]

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Have you guys listened to yourselves?? I mean really have you listened to yourselves?

"Every post is about how great ___________ is coming out of college and how he's much better than _______________ that plays for the Hawks. I believe _______________ would make us a playoff contender."

I have to ask the question, do you guys even watch college basketball or do you wait for the NCAA tourney and just watch a guy blow up there? A lot of the guys who you guys talk so highly of would not make it off our bench for more than 10 mpg. There is only 2 in this draft who would: Oden and Durant.

I told you before, this draft is not so good after the first 2. I hate to tell you this also but after the first two, #3 should be Noah.

But that's another subject... back to the hawks fans needing something called new!!

Some of you are so stuck on the thought of new that you wouldn't dare agree about trading the pick for an established player..

Let's look at the laundry list:

Conley Jr:

Flavor of the week. He really hasn't proved anything and 1 month ago, he was trying to urge Oden to stay at OSU. Ask Marvin why you are supposed to leave when the good players leave. Now let's get technical... Conley Jr's biggest compliment is that he looked so poised in the tourney. Hello Mateen Cleaves. The truth is Conley Jr. is undersized, underweight, not a great shooter and not really what you would call a "pure" PG. He's like Speedy Claxton all over again!

Corey Brewer:

If we were talking about a defensive player to compliment Smoove, this is the second guy you want. However, I've been reading about how great Brewer is and how he's guaranteed Allstar. To be an allstar you have to be able to score. Brewer's problem is this, he's not a ball handler, he's not so strong, he hasn't completely developed a move. He can post up pretty good but how many 6'7" guys do you think will be able to post up the Sf position? Plus, he lacks the strength to be able to be a post up Sf. I would love to say he's the next Vince Carter or the Next Paul Pierce, but I don't see it. I think he will be a very good defender (with time) but offensively his game needs lots of development.

Jeff Green:

This is the first guy you want if you're going after a defensive player to compliment Smoove. I love Green's game and if he were taller, I would call him Scottie Pippen like. BUT Green can't shoot from 3 and he doesn't score off the dribble so well. He's going to be a great pickup but he's not a Durant or a game changer. He will be a great player to put in a system with veterans (like Detroit). He may end up being better than Deng... but the question is will any of the GTown boys come out?

Roy Hibbert

I think I was the first to talk about Hibbert. I still like a lot of what I see in Hibbert and think he will definitely be a good pro. However, he doesn't rebound well nor does he seem to have rebounding footwork down pact. He blocks shots, but I think that's because he's 7'2" in college. In the pros, I don't think his timing is that great. I would love for him to spend a summer with Deke and then both of them come to Atlanta next season, but he won't be a game changer neither. Not right away. Puls, Will he come out?

Al Horford

I like some parts of Horford game but there's a lot of work to be done. He has some potential but when did he become 6'10... or even 6'9? I really want to see when Measurements come out. I'm guessing 6'8 1/4. That's not that big of a deal though, it's always about how you play. I think he's more athletic than Shelden but at the same time, Shelden is years ahead of him in terms of development. Shelden has a post move and he has a midrange shot and he has good footwork on offense and defense. Horford lacks in all three areas. Horford works hard though but in this business as in all businesses you work smarter not harder.

Yi JianLian

I like this guy because of his name. JianLian. I know nothing about him (that I have seen). I doubt that any of you do either so let's not act like experts. I may have watched him in the world games but i wasn't really paying that much attention. I think being 7 foot is a good thing everyday. Plus I read that he's pretty mobile. That's it though. Honestly, I would rather take a shot at Darko. But I would love to try to come up with a nickname for the newest Hawks: JL...J-Li... YiJiLi. ..YJL! GEELEE.... General Li!! General Yi!!!

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I don't know boss, but I believe Cory Brewer is much closer to 6'9" than 6'7". The guy has range on hids jumper and can put the ball on the floor to the paint. I closely watched him several times the last two years and was always impressed.

[thesheedera]

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do you guys even watch college basketball

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yes - it's an addiction

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A lot of the guys who you guys talk so highly of would not make it off our bench for more than 10 mpg. There is only 2 in this draft who would: Oden and Durant.

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That's simply false.

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not really what you would call a "pure" PG

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untrue again

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I think I was the first to talk about Hibbert.

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HA!

[AHF]

Just for the record, here are the reports on Conley:

draft express

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Rankings:

Round: 1 Pick: 10 in 2007 Mock Draft

Rank 9 in NCAA Freshman

Rank 1 in Top-20 '07 PGs

Comparisons:

Best Case: Chris Paul

Worst Case: Aaron Miles

NCAA Tournament: NBA Draft Stock Watch (Nat'l Championship Game)

April 3, 2007

Mike Conley Jr closed out his freshman season with another excellent all-around performance, but unfortunately it wasn’t enough to prevent the Florida Gators from repeating as National Champions. The talented point guard played well beyond his years, as he has been doing all season long, and put together yet another stellar stat-line for the Buckeyes.

Less than a minute into the first half, Conley made his presence felt by stripping Taurean Green of the basketball and sprinting the other way for a breakaway layup. Just a couple of minutes later he took the ball coast-to-coast for another layup, weaving his way through Gator defenders. That would be it for a while for Conley who didn’t score very much in the first half, as he was hampered for the most part by foul trouble. Despite this, he still kept Ohio State in the game thanks to his stellar point guard play. Relying on his unbelievable control with the ball, quickness, and craftiness, Conley was able to drive and kick several times in that first half, including one particularly impressive drive and dish along the baseline that set up teammate Ivan Harris for an open three.

In the second half, Conley would step up his scoring efforts, finishing with 20 points in the game. A mediocre shooter from the outside during the year, he couldn’t manage to get his jumper going, hitting just a floater in the lane and a meaningless three in the game’s waning seconds. What he lacked from the outside though, he more than made up for going to the basket. Twice, Conley fooled defenders along the baseline with a crossover move, and twice he went strong to the basket taking a reverse layup. He converted on the first attempt in spectacular fashion, and missed the second amidst heavy pressure from the Florida interior. Later in the game he showed his elusiveness again, this time fooling Joakim Noah with a quick spin move in the lane that ended in another easy layup.

On defense, Conley had another solid game, playing pesky on the ball. He got caught napping a couple times and was burned off the dribble by Taurean Green, but in general Conley looked very sharp. He has great hands, and it showed in this game as he deflected several passes, and a couple of them wound up as steals, either for him or a teammate. More so than his hands though, it’s his instincts and knowledge of where to position himself when his man doesn’t have the ball that makes him dangerous. A couple of Conley’s steals came from his anticipation and playing the angles correctly on defense, cutting off passing lanes. These are little nuances that most freshmen haven’t added to their game yet defensively.

Despite disappearing for a stretch in the first half due to foul trouble, this was still a great performance from Conley. When he wasn’t hitting shots, he was setting up teammates or drawing fouls by being persistent. When he wasn’t on the ball defensively, he was forcing his man to work anyway. This was one of the most impressive seasons by any freshman in the country, and the future is clearly very bright for Conley.

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ESPN:

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Positives: One of the steadiest point guards in the country. A pure point who always thinks team first. Doesn't turn the ball over very often. Excellent at handling pressure. Has the ability to slash to the basket. NBA body. Very good athlete. Good lateral quickness and quick hands make him an excellent on-the-ball defender.

Negatives: Inconsistent jump shot with little to no NBA 3-point range. Can be too unselfish at times.

Summary: Conley quickly asserted himself as the best young college point guard in the country. His leadership for Ohio State in the NCAA tournament took him out of the shadow of Greg Oden and created some serious draft buzz. He's become the darling of NBA scouts looking for steady, pure point guards who can control a team. Look for him to be the first point guard off the board.

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[Diesel]

I simply ask that you hang around while History decides who was right and who was wrong.

Don't be like KB and the rest of the Marvin Williams = the next MJ group who even now refuses to admit that we made a mistake picking the Hype Machine's favorite child...

Like I have said before, there are many guys who get HYPED from the so-called experts because the so-called experts work on information they recieve from Agents. If an Agent sends a highlight package of their guy doing well, wouldn't you think that the writer would have nice things to say?? That's how the hyp machine works.

[AtLaS]

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Don't be like KB and the rest of the Marvin Williams = the next MJ group who even now refuses to admit that we made a mistake picking the Hype Machine's favorite child..

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If that's the case, then you should also fold over your condolences for Shelden.. Now I'm with you that Shelden would be a lot more effective with more PT, but the fact is that he won't get PT on this roster (because of the Hawks commitment to Marvin) so he was a bad pick..

You will say that Marvin doesn't need to play, but in BK's mind he was going to play, so why draft Shelden? You have to admit it was a bad pick also, at LEAST from BK's perspective..

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I almost completely agree with you Diesel. This is definitely a top 2 heavy draft, not a deep draft in which most of the 1st round players will be sure fire starters in a year or two.

And I wouldn't be against trading the pick for an established player at all. The history of the league pretty much shows that when a team acquires a good player that is experienced AND talented, the team is much better off than acquiring a player who is talented, but inexperienced on the NBA level.

The pre-draft camps will tell a lot about this group. Some will rise, some will fall. Most will fall from grace and let some names that are off the main radar right now, jump above them.

But if you're looking for a guy outside of Durant and Oden, the guy to look out for, is Acie Law. I think some of the Squawkers need to go watch some YouTube highlights of this guy. Or better yet, watch the Texas @ Texas A&M game, in which Law dropped 21 points and added a school record 15 assists . . with only 1 turnover.

If you're talking about a PG, that's the type of player we need on this team. A guy who can do BOTH things . . pass and score . . not just one thing very well.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that Law isn't going to be available after the top 5, let alone at #11 where we are.

[AtLaS]

I've always been a huge fan of Law. I'm sort of split between him and Crittenton right now though, just because Crit has SO much potential, and he's already performed considerably well. However, the hype machine is cranked up on Conley's 11 and 6 right now (isn't that what Marvin averaged), so everyone is going for Conley, JUST because mocks have him rated ahead. I would MUCH rather go for Law..

[exodus]

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The more I think about it, the more I believe that Law isn't going to be available after the top 5, let alone at #11 where we are.

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Law will be there for a simple reason. He is a 4 year college player who is probably seen as fully developed and doesn't have the "upside" of other player. It seems upside > skills on draft day.

I am fine with taking Law at 11. I watched him a lot and this combo guard rep he has is nonsense.

[coachx]

First let me say I watch 100 X more college games then NBA games. Mainly due to there being more college on TV then NBA on TV.

Ditto,

That Texas vs. Texas A&m game was master piece. I posted a quick summary of it the day after the game back in February or Jabuary(or whenever it was) in the Draft Forum.

If you watch that game you will see the most clutch performance of the year watching Law take over that game. It was a thing of beauty when he tricked the full court press and beat them with a full court outlet home run play for a layup. That same play almost worked in the tourney, that dang layup just rimmed out and them cost a spot in the Great 8.

He did this against a weak defender in Augustine but hey, Augustine would be 1st round quality too if he came out.

So many roads to take but we can only choose one.

To diss Brewer's scoring is a mistake. Brewer is the best scorer for the two time defending champs. He would have no problem scoring 10 to 24 a game if he played for Ga Tech or UGA or any team without all that talent. His handles are great for a kid 6'9'', his passing is good too, not to mention his freakish atheletic skills.

If Coach Harrick at UGA would not have got the team on probation Brewer would have been the 2nd coming of Nique at UGA. Once we were put on probation losing all our scholarships the players who had committed to UGA without sitting out a year. Coach Harrick and UGA are directly responsible for FLorida haviong Brewer and winning 2 championships. Brewer was the X-Factor, a 6'9'' matchup headache.

By the war, how do you think Green is a Scottie Pippen. Pippen was know for having the quicks to guard PGS and the handles to bring the ball up. Green is much slower than Brewer. Green is more of a SF/PF combo while Brewer is more of a SG/SF combo. Brewer gave Conley fits with full court pressure much like Pippen used to do with Stockton. I don't see Green being able to do this. Oh, and Green choked in the Final 4 when it mattered and all but dissapeared. Mean while Brewer rose to the occasion and was the MVP of the Fianl Four. There is a reason Florida turn to him for offense in the clutch and a reason he alwayse guards the teams best offensive weapon other then a center.

We are high on Brewer for good reason.

[Diesel]

No.

I think that Shelden was not a bad pick. He was a badly needed pick. The bad pick was Marvin. Bad because at the time, he was not needed. Our problem right now as it seems is coaching followed by lack of a PG.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

(( going with Mr. H's "funeral gray" on this post ))

Coach, I agree with what you say about Brewer. The Hawks probably won't touch him though, seeing that it'll bring even more criticizm to the organization for not taking a big man or a point. But Brewer is definitely a good player offensively, and his defense is outstanding. That's usually a recipe for success in the NBA.

But if Brewer is available at #11, and Law is gone, Brewer will be the best player available at that position.

As far as impact goes, the draft could be looked at like this in 3 years.

- Durant

- Oden

- Law

- Brewer

- Noah ( depending on which team he goes to )

Noah is a hustle player that plays all out. And that hustle makes up a little for his shortcomings. Those types of players are usually successful on the NBA level, even if they don't turn into star players.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Shelden was in the same position as Marvin was last year. He was a high pick that didn't have a guaranteed starting spot. Usually, high picks like that start right away. Marvin didn't, nor did Shelden. Because of that, their numbers will always be lower and their impact on the team will be less than what they would've been, had they played "starter's minutes" the entire year.

[ncthompson11]

Brewer has a really good offensive game and is one of his strenghts. Most think he is just a slasher but is a great 3 point shooter.

[Diesel]

Actually Shelden was getting Starters minutes to begin the season. What happened was we started to see more Marvin 40 minute games and more Shelden 5 minute games. Woody is just a bad coach when it comes to managing time.

Shelden was the top rookie rebounder to begin the year. We were winning games with Shelden in the lineup. Shelden's defense was OK... Why did he all the sudden get benched? I say it's more political than anything that Shelden did.

[mrhonline]

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Actually Shelden was getting Starters minutes to begin the season. What happened was we started to see more Marvin 40 minute games and more Shelden 5 minute games.

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This has been disproven. Time to move on.

[Diesel]

No, I think Atlas did a very good job of STATISTICALLY proving that assertion (Through our injury log).

You don't prove with feelings.

[mrhonline]

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No, I think Atlas did a very good job of STATISTICALLY proving that assertion (Through our injury log).

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No, if you'll read again, he mistakenly assumed that Childress was injured in January.

Marvin and Shelden played heavy minutes *together.* They play separate positions.

[AtLaS]

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No, I think Atlas did a very good job of STATISTICALLY proving that assertion (Through our injury log).

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No, if you'll read again, he mistakenly assumed that Childress was injured in January.

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Childress came back in January, only to have Smith go out until January 12th, so Shelden still got his minutes.. Speedy/Lue were also out forcing Childress/JJ to play a lot of PG, in which case more minutes were collected for Shelden. Once we became completely healthy, Shelden's minutes DOVE.. What's the difference? At the beginning of the year (17 games) when we were completely healthy (except Marvin), Shelden got his minutes. When we were COMPLETELY healthy (and Marvin WAS healthy) Shelden sat on the bench and collected dust.

[mrhonline]

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When we were COMPLETELY healthy (and Marvin WAS healthy) Shelden sat on the bench and collected dust.

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We've been over this a million times. You could easily have taken two minutes each from Jones, Pachulia, Wright, Marvin, JJ, Smith, and Childress, and add those to the 5 or 6 per game that Shelden got after his "benching" and you get 20 minutes.

It's more than possible. Look at the overtime win vs. the Nets on Feb. 4th as proof. Woodson simply chose not to play Shelden.

Now, do I think there's a long-term logjam between the young forwards? Yes. Is that Marvin's fault alone? No.

Would I trade Marvin to make more minutes for Shelden? No, because his time at the 4 will always be blocked somewhat by Josh Smith (who clearly proved he's more valuable as a PF).