A great RISKY AS plan...

[Diesel]

If I were one of the AS, this is what I would propose. I would propose selling out to Belkin. Making Belkin paying for the Hawks.(100 million).

The Hawks have an ironclad agreement with the Philips arena so you don't have to worry about him moving to Vegas or St. Louis just yet.

However, think about it... After Belkin gets the Hawks, Stern will then automatically make Belkin refile his petition for ownership. Based on news out of Boston, all of Belkins money is caught up in the "Trans National" towers. Without a partner, Belkin will fail Stern's requirement for ownership. The AS (Atlanta group) can swoop back in hopefully with Turner as a member of the group (Seydel, Gearon Sr & JR, Bruce, and Turner) and they can buy the Hawks.

They would have gotten Belkin 2 times.

The risk is this: Belkin may find a parter to go in with him. However, how many people will partner with Belkin after this fiasco?

[AHF]

This would be too risky for me.

The other factor is that Stern might not let the ASG buy back in if they allowed Belkin to buy them out.

I think the odds of Belkin coming up with financial backing that is agreeable to the NBA is too high to risk.

Worst case scenario is that the NBA approves Belkin without additional backing just to get this resolved and then he runs the team on the cheap because he can't afford to run a team that is coming into a period where payroll is going to increase substantially.

[gsuteke]

IMO Belkin is taking a calculated risk by trying to get more money out of a settlement from the AS. I don't believe his intention is to take sole possession of the franchise at all.

if my gut feeling is correct, applying your logic to this situation could bring about a faster resolution.

AHF: did Belkin not reject both the AS appraiser and his own appointed appraiser's value of the franchises?

[coachx]

How could a judge award ownership to Belkin without prior approval of Belkin, as sole owner, from Stern and the league ?

It makes no sense for a court to award ownership to Belkin if the league will not allow him to take over sole ownership.

No one runs the risk of owning a team in their personal name. Too much to lose.

He will have to create a new artificail entity with enough equity and credit to own both the Hawks and Thrashers. I just don't see this happening.

There seems to be holes all in Belkin's case the more you look at it.

Bottom line the league must get involved some how befor the judge can issue a ruling b/c only the ASG has been improved as owners (not the new seperate entity Blkin must create if he wins in court.)

I don't see a jusge allowing Belkin to win in court only to have the leagues (NBA & NHL) say Belkin does not have the assets to own the teams. This should be a major arguement presented by the ASG's lawyers.

What a snake ! Any one who supports Belkins must have some ethical issues of their own.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

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How could a judge award ownership to Belkin without prior approval of Belkin, as sole owner, from Stern and the league ?

It makes no sense for a court to award ownership to Belkin if the league will not allow him to take over sole ownership.

No one runs the risk of owning a team in their personal name. Too much to lose.

He will have to create a new artificail entity with enough equity and credit to own both the Hawks and Thrashers. I just don't see this happening.

There seems to be holes all in Belkin's case the more you look at it.

Bottom line the league must get involved some how befor the judge can issue a ruling b/c only the ASG has been improved as owners (not the new seperate entity Blkin must create if he wins in court.)

I don't see a jusge allowing Belkin to win in court only to have the leagues (NBA & NHL) say Belkin does not have the assets to own the teams. This should be a major arguement presented by the ASG's lawyers.

What a snake ! Any one who supports Belkins must have some ethical issues of their own.

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as I understand the situation the original buyout agreement was approved by the NBA. subsequently that agreement had the clause that Belkin is taking advantage of that put a time limit on the transaction. if that time limit expired the AS was required to sell to Belkin at cost.

in essence Belkin is a pre approved home buyer.

[Diesel]

Yeah, the risk scares me too.

I don't think Stern would let any owner in without them being financially apt to own. That's part of why I said this is a great plan. As long as a lot of Belkin's money is tied up in the towers, I don't think he can get a bank to finance him for the Hawks.

I think of a guy like David McDavid. He had at least 200 Million for the Hawks but Stern wanted him to show the ability to have double that.

I suspect that Stern would require about 300 million... then it would have to go to a vote before the other owners.. Even if the money is right, allegations of Belkin trying to run the team on the cheap and the whole fight MIGHT lead the other owners to question Belkin... BUT, I don't think Stern trusts that... There are no owner conduct rules in basketball.

I think it's a risky plan, but it could work...

It's just scary..

You make a good point about Stern not allowing those guys to buy in, but Billioniare Ted may be a different story!!

[Diesel]

Required to sell the teams or to sell the AS LLC entity??

I don't know if you can backdoor ownership like that.

I don't think it's like buying a car... where you could go in as a group and then dissolve the group and one person take on the car... the financing company, usually don't care who pays.

However, the NBA is not a financing company. It's a league. I assume that they will always be interested in the ability of the owners to keep a quality team in the league.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

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Required to sell the teams or to sell the AS LLC entity??

I don't know if you can backdoor ownership like that.

I don't think it's like buying a car... where you could go in as a group and then dissolve the group and one person take on the car... the financing company, usually don't care who pays.

However, the NBA is not a financing company. It's a league. I assume that they will always be interested in the ability of the owners to keep a quality team in the league.

---

that's a good point, i didn't think about the AS deal involving franchises in seperate sports leagues.

some how, some way the NBA had to approve the buyout deal after the meltdown following the Joe trade. In fact at one point the Joe trade was in limbo for about a week as Stern was presiding over what was in essence an arbitration.

[Packfill]

Quote:

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How could a judge award ownership to Belkin without prior approval of Belkin, as sole owner, from Stern and the league ?

It makes no sense for a court to award ownership to Belkin if the league will not allow him to take over sole ownership.

No one runs the risk of owning a team in their personal name. Too much to lose.

He will have to create a new artificail entity with enough equity and credit to own both the Hawks and Thrashers. I just don't see this happening.

There seems to be holes all in Belkin's case the more you look at it.

Bottom line the league must get involved some how befor the judge can issue a ruling b/c only the ASG has been improved as owners (not the new seperate entity Blkin must create if he wins in court.)

I don't see a jusge allowing Belkin to win in court only to have the leagues (NBA & NHL) say Belkin does not have the assets to own the teams. This should be a major arguement presented by the ASG's lawyers.

What a snake ! Any one who supports Belkins must have some ethical issues of their own.

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The Spirit group doesn't have enough money to buy out Belkin, so by that logic, none of the above should be owner and the team should be auctioned to the highest bidder.

[coachx]

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Required to sell the teams or to sell the AS LLC entity??

I don't know if you can backdoor ownership like that.

I don't think it's like buying a car... where you could go in as a group and then dissolve the group and one person take on the car... the financing company, usually don't care who pays.

However, the NBA is not a financing company. It's a league. I assume that they will always be interested in the ability of the owners to keep a quality team in the league.

---

I'd be interested to know the answer on that one.

[AHF]

Quote:

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IMO Belkin is taking a calculated risk by trying to get more money out of a settlement from the AS. I don't believe his intention is to take sole possession of the franchise at all.

if my gut feeling is correct, applying your logic to this situation could bring about a faster resolution.

AHF: did Belkin not reject both the AS appraiser and his own appointed appraiser's value of the franchises?

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The buyout agreement allowed Belkin to select the first appraiser.

It allowed either party to challenge that appraisal and for that party to get a second appraisal.

If the second was not acceptable to the other party, the party who did not get the second appraisal could ask the NBA to get a third appraisal.

The entire process had to be completed by a certain date or Belkin got the right to buy out the ASG at cost (why, oh, why did they agree to this????)

Belkin got the first appraisal.

Belkin objected moments after it was released (without even reading it).

The ASG objected minutes later - also within the time period to object.

Belkin went ahead and had a second appraisal done while the matter went to court.

Belkin did not disagree with the second appraisal (which was for much more than the first).

The time period ran for the process to be completed while the matter was in court.

That is where we are.

[AHF]

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Required to sell the teams or to sell the AS LLC entity??

I don't know if you can backdoor ownership like that.

I don't think it's like buying a car... where you could go in as a group and then dissolve the group and one person take on the car... the financing company, usually don't care who pays.

However, the NBA is not a financing company. It's a league. I assume that they will always be interested in the ability of the owners to keep a quality team in the league.

---

I'd be interested to know the answer on that one.

---

I think the NBA would have a perogative to evaluate the financial capabilities of any owner or ownership group in the league and to approve or disapprove of a sale for that reason. This is more complicated than the usual situation, though, and the league would be more likely to try to work out a compromise since everyone is an owner of the team.

The only reservation I have, is that I don't know if the NBA somehow approved the buyout agreement which contained the Belkin buyout clause and might not seek to step in because it previously gave approval. I hope that would not be the case.

[coachx]

The spirit have the money to buy Belkin out. They just don't want to be taken advantage of and pay the inflated value Belkin's people estimated the franchise is now worth. There is no way the franchise has appreciated as quickly as Belkin thinks.

The Spirit really got themselves into this. Had they acted in a timely manner they could have bought Belkin out at cost. Right ?

Big partnerships = big trouble in the business world, that will never change.

[AHF]

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The Spirit really got themselves into this. Had they acted in a timely manner they could have bought Belkin out at cost. Right ?

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No.

The never had the option to buy out Belkin at cost. Had that been the deal, they never would have been late.

The buyout was always supposed to compensate Belkin for appreciation in the franchise. The breakdown during the appraisal process occurred as I described above.

[gsuteke]

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The Spirit really got themselves into this. Had they acted in a timely manner they could have bought Belkin out at cost. Right ?

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No.

The never had the option to buy out Belkin at cost. Had that been the deal, they never would have been late.

The buyout was always supposed to compensate Belkin for appreciation in the franchise. The breakdown during the appraisal process occurred as I described above.

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have the papers filed by Belkin's camp ever been worded in a manner that requested immediate transfer of the franchise to Belkin?

does he really want the team or is he stalling for more money?

[AHF]

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The Spirit really got themselves into this. Had they acted in a timely manner they could have bought Belkin out at cost. Right ?

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No.

The never had the option to buy out Belkin at cost. Had that been the deal, they never would have been late.

The buyout was always supposed to compensate Belkin for appreciation in the franchise. The breakdown during the appraisal process occurred as I described above.

---

have the papers filed by Belkin's camp ever been worded in a manner that requested immediate transfer of the franchise to Belkin?

does he really want the team or is he stalling for more money?

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He has asked for immedate transfer of the franchise but it is unclear whether he is doing that for leverage in a buyout or really wants the team. I am sure he feels that if he gets the team at cost the worst case scenario is selling it on the free market. He would probably prefer that to an ASG buyout unless the buyout is pretty sweet. Of course, money in hand may be worth more than waiting for this process to drag out to a conclusion.

[Packfill]

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The spirit have the money to buy Belkin out. They just don't want to be taken advantage of and pay the inflated value Belkin's people estimated the franchise is now worth. There is no way the franchise has appreciated as quickly as Belkin thinks.

The Spirit really got themselves into this. Had they acted in a timely manner they could have bought Belkin out at cost. Right ?

Big partnerships = big trouble in the business world, that will never change.

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I have read that the Spirit group will be bringing in another partner if they get control - they need more money to buy out Belkin.

And there are legions of examples of successful partnerships in the business world, hundreds of these such partnerships/joint ventures are entered into each day, many involving substantially larger sums of money. Most people never hear about them unless something goes wrong.

[DJlaysitup]

As far as the other owners approving Belkin as sole owner of the Hawks:

Let's say I'm the owner of another Eastern Conference NBA team. Why would I vote against Belkin?...because he would run the Hawks "on the cheap"? That would be fine with me. Let him run an NBDL-level team out there in Hawks uniforms for all I would care...give Woody a lifetime contract...just less competition for my team and a better shot at the playoffs.

[Diesel]

It doesn't work that way...

Owners see the game much differently than that. When they have good teams, everybody wins. When they have bad teams, everybody loses. When Jordan and the Bulls were winning championship after Championship do you think the other owners were bitching? Heck no. They were applauding. The Bulls brought the game back to the public. Pretty soon a good Bulls team comes to town, that's another sellout...even for a struggling franchise.

If my team is struggling and your team is struggling, nobody is gong to pay to watch them play. I lose money... The TV contracts will disappear... That's the thing about a league.. When you're in a league, there's profit sharing. So of course you want somebody who will make the team the most profitable.

NOW

Where other owners will object is this:

No owner wants their freedom taken away. If I'm the brothers who owns Sacramento, I don't want Stern commiting a credit check on my team when I'm dealing to build another casino. I'd rather have the freedom to do business and own the team without the other owners always judging. So, I think that the owners will not vote Belkin out because they don't want to set a standard that can later be used against them!

[DJlaysitup]

That makes sense.