It's (almost) unanimous how much BK sucks

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

If we do get it fixed, and sign a big defensive body what's to stop us from winning 40 or more games next year?

---

"I-F" and "40 wins" don't mean [censored]! No single player at 11 is going to come in and win us 10 more games next year. The next year or so we lose JC or MW...We still MIGHT win 40 wins two or three years from now, but by then the rebuilding is DOA. You can't be limping at this stage of a rebuild! You have to be sprinting. We are gut shot and limping.

Quote:

---

JJ has proven he is one of the top SG's in the league, Smoove is a rising star that LOOKS like he's going to average around 17/10/3 blk's next year (maybe even better #'s), Marvin is still developing but is playing pretty damn well for a 20 year old if you ask me, and Zaza is certainly an above average offensive Center ( we need a defensive big), Shelden doesn't look like the right pick right now, but he really came on at the end of the year, and hopefully he'll continue to learn.

---

You've now admitted (painfully, I might add) that MW and SW were the wrong picks. How can you admit both and laud BK?

Quote:

---

TALENT IS NOT OUR PROBLEM

...We have amassed some pretty good players here with whole hell of a lot of potential...It's WOODSON'S job to develop that talent.

---

Talent IS our problem. I statistically demonstrated how our top two players' average and our 5th starter is statistically less than each and every top 10 team. Statistically d@mning evidence we don't have the necessary talent. We don't have the talent no matter how much you bold your opinion. Nor do we have the talent distributed well.

W

[Seano]

Quote:

---

Your company relies upon you to pick the best widget out of 3 on 3 occasions. This is your most important within the company and could make or break the company for the next 10 years. In EACH of the 3 decisions you select the most costly, most likely to breakdown, most difficult to acquire widget out of the 3. Your company gets passed by most all other competitors directly due to your decisions. Should you keep your job?

---

No, you should resign your job immediately and go to work for the Department of Defense. That kind of skill is exactly what they're looking for!

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

OF COURSE IT PISSES ME OFF TO SEE HOW WELL THEY ARE PLAYING NOW!!!

---

Then put your off pissing where it belongs, on BK's shoulders. Woody can't coach, but he didn't draft the worst possible lottery option 3 consecutive years. Can't blame him for that unparalleled incompetence.

W

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I don't agree with him, but I am going to cheer my butt off for Marvin to prove ME wrong.

---

So you don't agree with him, and you admit he's a horrible drafter.. yet you continue to support him? I don't get it.

---

BK hired Woody just like he hired Lowe. If you don't like Woody, hold the person who hired him.

Essentially, jdu, doesn't agree with BK, hates his decisions to draft MW and SW, and hates his coaching hire in Woody, but still supports him 100%.

jdu...you are perfect for the job. I'll here your words defending incompetence in every qote they make.

W

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

But, instead of the picks BK had to work with, what if he had had the 2004 5th & 16th picks, 2005 1st, and 2006 4th picks? Choosing: Harris/Snyder/Bogut/Thomas. How would we all feel about that?

---

But in that hypothetical...

I wouldn't have drafted Harris regardless, nor Snyder with "hometown phenom" JS available, I would have drafted Bogut (but we'd still be better off than we are with MW), and I would have drafted Aldridge (and not traded him) or Roy still given our "needs" wouldn't have stressed the interior so much.

So, while in this scenario we'd still be lacking a Pg, we'd have at least...

C - Bogut

Pf - Aldridge/JS

Sf - Deng/JS

SG - JJ

I'd MUCH rather have that.

W

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

But, instead of the picks BK had to work with, what if he had had the 2004 5th & 16th picks, 2005 1st, and 2006 4th picks? Choosing: Harris/Snyder/Bogut/Thomas. How would we all feel about that?

---

But in that hypothetical...

I wouldn't have drafted Harris regardless, nor Snyder with "hometown phenom" JS available, I would have drafted Bogut (but we'd still be better off than we are with MW), and I would have drafted Aldridge (and not traded him) or Roy still given our "needs" wouldn't have stressed the interior so much.

So, while in this scenario we'd still be lacking a Pg, we'd have at least...

C - Bogut

Pf - Aldridge/JS

Sf - Deng/JS

SG - JJ

I'd MUCH rather have that.

W

---

I just read that quote and it astounded me. It's funny how he supports BK, but ASSUMES that BK would have made the WORST pick had we been given those picks. He's admitting that BK is horrible and would have made those bad picks, and still defending him, hilarious..

[DavidSomerset]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I don't agree with him, but I am going to cheer my butt off for Marvin to prove ME wrong.

---

So you don't agree with him, and you admit he's a horrible drafter.. yet you continue to support him? I don't get it.

---

BK hired Woody just like he hired Lowe. If you don't like Woody, hold the person who hired him.

Essentially, jdu, doesn't agree with BK, hates his decisions to draft MW and SW, and hates his coaching hire in Woody, but still supports him 100%.

jdu...you are perfect for the job. I'll here your words defending incompetence in every qote they make.

W

---

I NEVER said I support him 100%, all I've EVER said is that I thought BK was less to blame than Woody and that I feel BK has brought enough talent here to be competitive.

I never said he was the best GM in the league, and I never said I don't ever want him to get fired.

[DavidSomerset]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Where did I ever say I was content with it at the moment?

---

Here's your words..

"It's hard for me to say that BK hasn't done a good job amassing talent on this team...He has made a few questionable calls in the past few drafts (trust me, I was the BIGGEST supporter of drafting Chris Paul out there), but I am content with the talent on this team and where we look to be heading."

You say that BK made a horrible mistake taking Paul, yet you are "content" with Marvin. It's funny how you HATED it at the time, but NOW you are content with it, especially since Paul/Deron have both proved to be much better prospects, at MUCH needed positions..

Quote:

---

RIGHT NOW, Paul and Deron obviously look like better picks, but that doesn't mean that they will be better players in 5 years...

---

5 years?!? When we drafted Marvin, it was supposed to be 3 years, now it's FIVE MORE years?? So we drafted Marvin to be successful 7 years after we selected him?

Quote:

---

I DID hate the pick at the time because I KNEW that we needed a PG and that Paul (I wasn't sure about Deron) was going to be a great player...

OF COURSE IT PISSES ME OFF TO SEE HOW WELL THEY ARE PLAYING NOW!!!

.

---

And you continue to support BK why??

Quote:

---

However, what's done is done and we chose Marvin, not Paul.

---

This is not a rational basis to support BK. You're supporting his inadequate decisions, yet admitting they were the wrong ones, and then say he's put us in a position to have talent. ALL THREE of BK's picks suggest he's not adequate for this job!

Quote:

---

I don't agree with him, but I am going to cheer my butt off for Marvin to prove ME wrong.

---

So you don't agree with him, and you admit he's a horrible drafter.. yet you continue to support him? I don't get it.

---

I am content with the talent on the TEAM as a whole, not content that we picked Marvin over Chris Paul and Deron...Please stop putting words in my mouth.

I honestly would not care if BK was fired...We would probably be better off.

All I am REALLY saying is that, IMO, the level of talent on this team is NOT our problem (even though it could obviously be better given our past circumstances)...IT IS COACHING.

[Hoosier]

This is not about you Walter, everyone knows how well you would have drafted. This is about what other "genius" GMs did in other cities, get it?

Let me ask you this, do you consider Dumars a good/great GM? We all know what he did, in 2003 he looked over Anthony, Bosh, Wade, Hinrich ...for what? Detroit could sure have used one of those guys. Where do you think Denver would be right now with Stoudemire vs. Tskitishvili?

These examples are far worse mistakes than what BK has made yet, and yet those GMs were/are highly regarded. It is very hard to project talent from HS/College/Overseas onto an NBA floor. I thought Devin Harris was can't miss, but he has turned out to be very limited in the NBA. I think this is why BK is so stifling conservative with his picks, he just wants to make sure he adds talent at this point, which he has done.

[TexasPete]

Please Hoosier, not another one of your lame arguments. I emailed Levenson a week before every draft with who I wanted the Hawks to draft. THis is not like nucleur physics.

I wanted Deng, Deron Williams, and Roy. Although because we never worked out Roy I knew he wasn't on our radar so I was pushing Foye hard.

I am hardly NBA GM material but Deron, Deng, and Foye would be Hawks if I were drafting. Let me clue you in because you don't get it...the best GM's in every sport possess a tremendous FORESIGHT. Everyone misses at times. But, you want your GM to get it right a high percentage of the time. Yes, anyone can look back and get it right but a good GM needs to be able to accurately project most of the time and Knight has failed miserably in the high lottery.

EXAMPLE: He couldn't see that Childress would have trouble scoring with that shot? Come on, just a little foresight.

[exodus]

He averaged 26/9 shooting 58% vs Miami.

[TexasPete]

Yeah, but Deng isn't a glue guy like Chill.

[Yeti]

Quote:

---

TALENT IS NOT OUR PROBLEM

...We have amassed some pretty good players here with whole hell of a lot of potential...It's WOODSON'S job to develop that talent.

---

I'm not convinced we have the talent yet. If you think of this team compared to championship teams - I am hoping that is our goal, then

PG - no starter, a couple backups and some that should go

SG - OK here we have JJ, with Salim and JC as weak backups

SF - no-one ready yet. Maybe Marvin or JS in the future.

PF - no-one ready yet. Maybe JS in the future. Shelden and Solomon may develop into a decent backup.

C - Zaza? If we were strong everywhere else zaza might do - but he seems more of a good backup - needs to work more on his defense.

So I don't think we are close yet in talent. We have ONE position filled. MAYBE we can solidify the forward positions with what we have but I'm not that confident. I think we need to be solid in the PG and at least three of the other positions to do serious damage in the playoffs.

Billy has drafted a good bench so far. But could he really have done much worse with the picks he's had? We've argued about every one of his picks (except JS). And he even picks some international players - but has no intention of really using them (Anderson, Batista, the turkish guard, and Diaw?). I think anyone on this board could have done as well - especially when you get all the scouting reports.

His trades have taken too long to get done and usually end up with another bench player - he either gets crap or pays too much. He has given away our cap space for cripples and has-beens. (BK also deserves PART of the blame for the ownership problem - by insisting on JJ at any cost. And of course there is the famous picture of him insulting Belkin by not shaking hands - humiliating Belkin publicly probably didn't help either.)

Our best hope right now is to get LUCKY in the draft, rather than rely on that brilliant basketball mind.

I would love to see his position description, because I would guess that part of his job is media relations and building a fan base. In that area he has failed miserably.

I do agree that it is Woody's job to develop that talent. But does Woody really have experience in doing that? Wasn't Detroit a fairly vetern group of players? Does Woody really know how to use a bunch of young kids? Does he know how to use international players? Does he know how to coach a running team?

Oh well. So how do both these guys get to keep their jobs? I don't understand. But I guess it is like those draft picks, we just have to accept reality and move on - hoping to get lucky or giving up on the Hawks completely.

[thesheedera]

I would have to argue that Smith is a bona fide starter right now for just about any team in the league. At least 75% of the teams would make room for him at SF or PF, maybe even more would be my guess not having every roster in front of me.

I think we have two very legit pieces in JJ and Smith, a couple of decent-probability-will-be-legit pieces (Marvin, Shelden), two legit 6th man type guys that could start on teams with stars at the other positions (Chil, Zaza - and to me, Marvin and Shelden's worst case scenario is ending up in this category, which isn't awful, but isn't great), one longshot but huge upside cheap guy (Solomon), one young backup guy with value as a specialist worth keeping around (Salim), and lots of completely replaceable backups that we should actively be trying to package in deals for legit starters(AJ, Lue, Speedy, Wright, Ivey, Batista).

I don't think anyone's untradeable by any means, but the order I put these guys in is the order I would think they are a priority to be kept.

If Shelden and Marvin realize their potential as true starting SF and PF in the league (like a Jamison and a Boozer for example), and we get franchise PG and Centers, I think we have championship talent.

Conley (or Crit or Law) - two of our backup PGs for depth

JJ - Salim - Chil (backups with opposite skills for matchup purposes

Marvin - Smith - Chill (Great depth and skill at SF)

Smith - Shelden (two starters in rotation depending on matchups, many games I would think Marvin and Smith would rotate at SF)

Oden - Zaza - Solomon

The franchise PG, JJ and Oden would be the cemented starters while Marvin, Smith and Shelden would probably share time as starters and 6th men. On a championship level team that ain't no slap in the face (Stackhouse, Jamison, Ginobli all are guys that have done it and still produce at a high level).

Obviously this scenario is the best case scenario and requires a tremendous amount of luck and player development, but it's a possibility, and it would validate the way the team's been built so far.

Chances of it happening are less than 5%.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

I NEVER said I support him 100%, all I've EVER said is that I thought BK was less to blame than Woody and that I feel BK has brought enough talent here to be competitive.

I never said he was the best GM in the league, and I never said I don't ever want him to get fired.

---

What kind of nonsense is that.

A ham sandwich could "bring in talent" with the capital we've had. The fact that BK brought in the LEAST AMOUNT CONCEIVABLE with the 3 lottery picks should indicate "ever" is now.

W

[Yeti]

Quote:

---

I would have to argue that Smith is a bona fide starter right now for just about any team in the league. At least 75% of the teams would make room for him at SF or PF, maybe even more would be my guess not having every roster in front of me.

---

I think you are right that most teams would like JS. But I was thinking ahead to actually being a serious playoff team. If you look at the teams left right now and look at our roster, the only player I could see STARTING for the Suns, Mavericks, Detroit, etc. is JJ. I think Josh will get there (after he grows up a little), I am less sure of Marvin, and wouldn't bet money on Shelden at all.

[DavidSomerset]

This team would probably be better with a different GM.

My only point this entire time has been that Woody and bad luck are more to blame than BK for the failings of this team.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

This team would probably be better with a different GM.

My only point this entire time has been that Woody and bad luck are more to blame than BK for the failings of this team.

---

Maybe Isaiah Thomas makes it worse, but there isn't a GM out there other than him that I could see doing worse than he has, certainly with the most important aspect...lottery picks.

I believe it to be 99.9% impossible for anyone to do worse at lottery selections than BK has been with us.

[Traceman]

see it. The chances of us landing Oden and Conley (or law or Crittendon) are not very good BUT if it does happen, I don't think this team would be very far away from being a contender.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

I emailed Levenson a week before every draft with who I wanted the Hawks to draft. THis is not like nucleur physics.

I wanted Deng, Deron Williams, and Roy. Although because we never worked out Roy I knew he wasn't on our radar so I was pushing Foye hard.

---

Damn TP..

I wish you would go off and get a NBA GM's job already. YOu can have that on your resume. It would be nice if you can add the acutal emails as supplements.

Then hopefully, you'll have so little time (because of your GMs job) that you can't fill every post with the "I emailed Levenson" blurb.