Law or Conley, who'd you rather have

[TexasPete]

Busboy, you just don't understand the basics. Players who dominate in college do not necessarily dominate in the NBA. In fact, most do not. This crap about Shelden being the 2-time DPOY as evidence of his NBA future is stupidity. The same goes for Law. Now, Law may go on and be a good solid NBA PG. But, he will probably not be a game changer in the NBA. Its different worlds and the fact is this dude took all 4 years in college to reach his status.

On the other hand, Conley and JC were studs as freshman. If they were to spend 3 more years on campus they would both be SICK. They were close to better than Law this year.

We will see which order these 3 go: I say:

1. Conley

2. JC

3. Law

Somebody needs to sit down and explain to you the differences in a boys league and a grown mans league. Now, go back and clean off my table.

[DJlaysitup]

I hope Con goes first and we can't get him. I'd take Law and/or Crit.

I realize that they might not be thought of as pure PGs...but I would take that chance.

[Diesel]

Yeah BI will tell you that National DPOY means nothing until he sees that Greg Oden, Marcus Camby, Alonzo Mourning, Emeka Okafor, Tim Duncan, & Grant Hill have all won the award?

But it doesn't mean nothing.. is what he will tell you.

Look some awards don't have any pro implications however, there are some awards that do. The fact that Shelden won this award twice, puts him in good company. Not to mention some of his other hardware.

I agree with BI that awards are not an accurate predictor of what a player will do, but they are not meaningless either.

BI's argument is weak.

[TexasPete]

Just on Duke alone, Steve Wojochowski (Wojo) and Tommy Amaker won the Defensive Player of the Year.

LOL...WOJO won it!!! Like I said, stick that award on the shelf. It is a COLLEGE award.

Diesel, I repeat my offer...$1,000 if you can beat me in a game to 21 by one. I'm 46 today. We will get a clear view of who the [censored] is...YOU. Are you ready to rumble big boy?

$1,000 cash. Put up or shut up. We each bring a grand, loser goes home empty. Are you man enough?

[DJlaysitup]

this isn't a betting website TP.

settle down.

[Diesel]

Once Again...

Alonzo, Duncan, Camby, Hill, Battier, etc have all won the DPOY...

Like I said, Awards are not a good predictor of what a guy will do in the pros, but It's not meaningless either.

BI, I thought that Old men had good sense. I see now that age has nothing to do with good sense.

[DJlaysitup]

You need to slow it down too.

[coachx]

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Everyone thinks the Hawks have this team that should be out running people. I don't see it.

JJ is actually kind of slow for a SG, heck he is 6'8'' 225 lbs. Marvin and Chills are slow for a SF. Za Za is average at center. Smoove is the only guy with a quickness advantage at his position on a nightly basis. Now if we got a Corey Brewer type SG/SF we could then be a transition team. (Hence #3 and #11 pick fall to us)

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I have to disagree here coachx. First off, Chillz is a very good runner. He fills lanes very well. 2ndly, everybody knows that to be a running team, the only thing you need is speedy on the wing, PF, and PG. Usually (in most running schemes that I'm acquainted with) the C trails and the SG sets up outside. For an example.. go back to Phoenix when they had "Slow JJ". Did JJ ever slow Phoenix' run down?? Heck no. JJ was the guy who would help handle the ball and would set up for three.

I think Up-tempo is our answer. That is until we can get as many team assists and PPG as Utah.

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Didn't Joe play SF for Phoniex and the shorter Q. Richardson play SG ? Any way both set up for 3's just like you said since they had Marion and Stoudamire as finishers. Too bad Za ZA is not a finisher with us. Marvin and Chills are neither 3 point snipers or finshers from my view point. They both have decent all round games. Chills can hit a 3 if totally open but that release doesn't allow him to shoot in traffic, that makes it hard for me to call him a shooter. Marvin can hit from mid range but not enough range to spread a defense (no 3 range). Niether are quick enough to blow by opposing SFs.

If a PG, speed on the wing, and an atheletic PF is all that is needed to run an up tempo offense the Hawks only had one of the those 3 pieces last year. That is my point we did not have the pieces to be a fast break team last year. Smoove is the only guy on the current squad that can out run his man. (Speedy was supposed to help this). JJ can play that style with a Nash at PG. We saw him shoot close to 50% from 3pt range with Nash setting him up and Marion and Stoudamire finishing in the paint for great fast break balance. We could do this with some roster tweaks. A Wilcox type at center would help us run this uptempo style. I don't think Chills or Marvin are ideal for this. Chills could be adequate if Nash was running the show but not a Speedy Claxton. To me Marvin is a good 1/2 court pick and pop guy to depend on but not a slasher or 3point shooter.

Nash, Marion, and Stoudamire out run and scare help defenders on fast breaks into the piant on defense allowing old timers like Jim Jackson, Bell, Penny or even a Joe Johnson type player to just stop at the 3 point line and wait for an uncontested 3.

The Suns once played:

Nash

Richardson

Joe Johnson

Marion

Stoudamire

JJ off the bench as a outside sniper.

Chills does fill a lane well if its uncontested but if he has an athelete guarding him Chills does not have the athleticism to be beat them down court. I thought Chills had the slowest sprint times of any wing player coming out of his draft class. If not, he looks slow and flat footed for a guy who may weigh just 200 lbs soak and wet.

I would love to see us get more easy fast break buckets. That will come with better perimeter defense in the flow of the game.

I think Law would help our sagging, predictable, half court offense the most of the 3. If you thought Lue was good in a pick and roll wait till you see Law run a pick and roll. He makes better and quicker decisions then Lue while shooting just as good if not better and finishing 10x better. Conley could run it too he just can't shoot.

Crittendon um.....I saw him botch enough plays GT last year.....can't even think about him yet. He could be great but I don't want taste the apple pie when its only 1/2 way done cooking. Leave him in the oven another year I hate to pull the pie out too early and mess up the dough.

[TexasPete]

So, you don't have the coconuts to play a little ball. I figured as much.

[AHF]

(1) I have to disagree on the Hawks' personnel for running. Even though Chills and Marvin aren't the league's fasted SFs, both would be excellent on the break, IMO. If you are reasonably fast (both are), reasonably athletic (both are) and have a decent basketball IQ (both seem to be adequate for this) - you can run. Smoove would clearly be devastating in a fast break. JJ is excellent in a fast break offense - especially spotting up from outside and making good decisions handling the ball on the break as opposed to necessarily being the first one down the floor. We aren't ideally suited to run a fast break offense but consider whether we are better suited to trying to run or in implementing what can only be described as a half-court offense. Very few of our players excel in a half-court game at this point in their career.

(2) On the Critt/Applie Pie analogy, remember that it isn't a choice between pie now or pie after you finish baking. Someone is taking Critt in this draft unless he pulls out. Maybe you still don't want someone that raw, but it may well be now or never.

[Diesel]

First, I doubt you want to think about giving me your money.

I'm not going to say I will win, because who knows... You might be a player.

I mean, I could walk on to the Hawks team right now and probably take the starting Center job... but who knows, you might be one of those 5'9" 46 year old guys who runs all over the place and I get tired of chasing you out past the halfcourt line and you may have a three point shot.

I'll admit that outta playing shape, but I know so much about playing the low post and I seriously doubt you can get a point there. You said to 21 by 1, So I'm assuming you're like 5'11 and you run everyday, maybe you have a 3 pt shot or something.... Or Maybe You think that making such a bet would put you in some position of getting credit over Diesel. That's funny.

Let me let you in on a secret, I didn't get this nickname by being some internet geek. The internet is my hobby. You challenged my manhood. Very well.. Now what? I'm not afraid nor do I think you're serious. But let me tell you, if I were to take you seriously, I could start a "Diesel's here" Bus tour to play everybody that think that they can shut me up and I'm pretty sure that I would make a whole lot more than I lose.

There's a difference between talking basketball and playing it. I just thought being older would give you the good sense not to make bets with somebody you've never seen before. But like I said, who knows. You could be Thunder Dan Marley or Danny Manning. Being Texas Pete, you could be Pete Chillcut or Pete Myers... But if you are, you might as well cut the check!

[TexasPete]

Were about ready to find out if your an Internet geek or not. Troy says he has a gym and we can meet there and play a little ball. Playing for some big stakes will see how well you handle pressure. I don't know a thing about you...I'm willing to take my chances. Go ahead and post me up...if you can.

I haven't even taken a shot in 2 months. Let's do it. Somebody here will hold the cash and give it to the winner. Yes, I am challenging your manhood, so lets get it on the schedule. If you win I won't do a thing but tip my cap.

You ready? Troy, can you get us a gym? Diesel, don't forget to bring the cash.

[exodus]

If this goes down someone needs to get it on video.

[AtLaS]

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If this goes down someone needs to get the fight on video.

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Fixed..

[Guest Walter]

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Everyone thinks the Hawks have this team that should be out running people. I don't see it.

JJ is actually kind of slow for a SG, heck he is 6'8'' 225 lbs. Marvin and Chills are slow for a SF. Za Za is average at center. Smoove is the only guy with a quickness advantage at his position on a nightly basis. Now if we got a Corey Brewer type SG/SF we could then be a transition team. (Hence #3 and #11 pick fall to us)

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I have to disagree here coachx. First off, Chillz is a very good runner. He fills lanes very well. 2ndly, everybody knows that to be a running team, the only thing you need is speedy on the wing, PF, and PG. Usually (in most running schemes that I'm acquainted with) the C trails and the SG sets up outside. For an example.. go back to Phoenix when they had "Slow JJ". Did JJ ever slow Phoenix' run down?? Heck no. JJ was the guy who would help handle the ball and would set up for three.

About Conley...

I don't like the look of him. He's too small. He could probably lead a fast break, but he has no Chris Paul about him... I doubt that he's so durable. Law on the other hand is big. Well, he's on the Slightly big side of normal for a PG. It scary to think of a backcourt with Law and JJ.

We are current lineup, Running is what we could do best. As you know, running hides flaws. The main one being Size. Running also highlights strengths.. The main one being team turnover differiential and blocked shots.

Let's face it, playing this slow game has highlighted all of our flaws.

We are the worst scoring team in the NBA. We are the worst 3 pt shooting team in the NBA. We are the worst fast breaking team in the NBA. We are almost team assists team in the NBA...

Our scoring screams the need for a PG. Our scoring also screams the need for an offensive identity. Giving the ball to JJ and standing back won't get the job done. He's a secondary Option type player which means that after our first option is exhausted, giving him the ball will make for very easy scores.

I think Up-tempo is our answer. That is until we can get as many team assists and PPG as Utah.

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Diesel, if up-tempo is our answer, why choose Law? He played in a slow offense for 4 years. Both Crittenton and Conley played in faster offenses as frosh than Law ever has. There is just a HUGE disconnect between "we need to run" and "so let's go with Law (who has NEVER run)". Even the argumebnt for why Law would be a good "running Pg"..."because he is big" is simply weird. You need to go back to common sense school as your arguments are somehow getting worse.

W

[Swatguy]

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(2) On the Critt/Applie Pie analogy, remember that it isn't a choice between pie now or pie after you finish baking. Someone is taking Critt in this draft unless he pulls out. Maybe you still don't want someone that raw, but it may well be now or never.

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I keep getting this vision. Our only hope for Javaris is; If we get pick 11, BK then makes the promise and Javaris closes done his workouts.

Otherwise the league will see what many already see and he gets selected in the top ten. With strong workouts I can see him as the first PG selected.

[Diesel]

We pick Law becuase aside from needing to run, we also need to improve our shooting.

We were dead last in Scoring.

We were dead last in 3 pt FG%.

We were dead last in efficiency.

The fact of the matter is this, if we pick up Brevin Knight we're going to lose a lot of games because JJ is our only 3 pt threat... We need a PG who can be a threat also and keep teams honest without dribbling the paint off the ball.

The other thing is that you've never watched Law play. Texas A&M played halfcourt set basketball by design, but that doesn't mean that he can't run. A lot of great PGs played in slow it down offensive systems in college. Andre Miller for one. Law just plays in one of those systems that doesn't break so much. However, if you watched him, you would know that he can do it all.

[Guest Walter]

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We pick Law becuase aside from needing to run, we also need to improve our shooting.

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"he's big" (though not nearly as big as Crittenton), HE'S NEVER RUN, and he's never run as much as both Conley and Crittenton did,...

...AND because that argument doesn't work for you we pick Law because we need to improve shooting?!?!

You make absolutely no sense. You do realize this, don't you?

I thought we needed to run. Now we need to improve shooting. While I don't deny either. WHICH ONE IS IT FOR YOUR EVER CHANGING ARGUMENT?!?! I'd pick Crittenton for both reasons because hes' bigger, can run better, and can also shoot. We also need to hit a triple or home run with this pick and not a single. Crittenton has extra bases written all over him.

W

[BusBoyIsBack]

We're all making this about Law vs Conley Vs JC

Honestly what we should be about is ANY of them vs Spencer Hawes, Corey Brewer, Jeff, Green, etc.

Instead of worrying about which one of these guys we get, we need to worry about getting a PG period.

We cannot screw this up.

We passed on Chris Paul and we passed on Brandon Roy. At least for those two picks we have an excuse. In the case of Paul, we were a 13 win team in desperate need of star power.

In the case of Roy, we desperately needed interior defense so we took the best interior defender available.

Right now there is no reason why we should pass on a PG at 11.

There is no big worthy of that selection and taking another forward would be incredibly stupid.

[Seano]

I don't have much time to watch college basketball (other than the NCAA Tournament), but I do pay extra attention to the Big 10 and try to watch the games as often as possible, only cause it's 'my' league (University of Minnesota graduate).

So I will preface this by saying that I've never seen Law or Crittendon play a single game....but I would be absolutely ecstatic if we were to somehow end up with Mike Conley Jr. He shows an almost uncanny degree of calmness, poise, and leadership for a player so young. You will never see the kid get ruffled, all you do is see him making positive plays all over the place. IMO he's a rare breed, someone I would consider a 'true' point guard, the classic kind- the kind who sets the offense and whom the offense runs through. I believe his future is almost limitless.

There is no possibility I would pass him up at 11, but it's really hard to imagine him even being there at that point. It'll be interesting to see how the workouts go.