The Atlanta Hawks vs. The Utah Jazz...

[Diesel]

It's interesting how ones fortune can turn out...

It was 2004.

Malone and Stockton had finally left.

Utah was sitting in the midst of their broken pieces of what was a championship quality team...

Atlanta had started it's comeback by trading for Al Harrington.

Let us examine some of the moves made since that point and look at the results.

First, let me plug this one Diesel Classic... 2005... PG is more important than C.

Blast of the past.

Well, Utah had:

Harpring and AK 47.

They made two interesting moves that recieved bad press. First it was picking up Carlos Boozer. Then it was picking up Mehmet Okur.

These two moves were unliked. IN Detroit, Okur seemingly had grown fat and wasn't playing very hard. He was considered a perimeter Center.

In the draft, Utah picked up: Kris Humpries and Karl Snyder. Neither really turned out.

Atlanta

Made no significant trades, but they did trade for Antoine Walker. They also drafted Chillz and Smoove along with Ivey and a guy named Sanikidze. Chillz and Smoove had a good year.

2005 Utah

Missing the first playoff in a long time, Utah again regrouped. They made a trade to get up in the draft. They picked up a guy name Deron Williams. A PG out of Ill. who seemed to be an oldschool throwback similar to Stockton.

2005 Atlanta

With the 2nd pick overall, Atlanta passed on Deron Williams, they also passed on Chris Paul and they took the 3 year project Marvin Williams. Why does it take three years to develop a Sf?? Somebody please explain that...

They also made a great move by picking up Joe Johnson!!! They also picked up a cheap workman like C named Zaza.

Johnson, Zaza, and Harrington had strong seasons. The young guns continued to progress.. The need for a PG was evident.

Utah 2006-2007

No major moves, In the draft Utah came away with Ronnie Brewer, Paul Milsap, and Dee Brown.

Utah also picked up Derrick Fisher from GS.. Another move that was questioned...

The strange mix of players have elevated Utah to the WCF..

Hawks 2006-2007

Hawks picked up Lo Wright and Speedy Claxton to cover up some of their holes... They also drafted Shelden Williams and Solomon Jones as their Pf platoon.

The Hawks were hampered by injuries but the need for a real PG is still the key visual detail. PGs matter.

epilogue.

Now... we sit. We have redundancy at the forward positions. We've been to the well several times. It's strange that Utah has only been in the lottery 1 time.

So here are the questions:

1. Is Boozer a better acquisition than JJ?

2. Is Mehmet a better acquistion than Zaza?

The real key in my mind is Atlanta made it's biggest mistake taking Marvin Williams over Deron Williams. Until Marvin Williams step up to all-star status, then that move will haunt this franchise.

Is it just the PG though?

NO. It's also the fact that Jerry Sloan is coach of the year every year he coaches unless Nellie wants it and Mike Woodson is not!

SO now, Atlanta waits no a PG like a man on life support waits on a new heart. we're dying to see what will happen on May 22.

[ncthompson11]

"So here are the questions:

1. Is Boozer a better acquisition than JJ?

2. Is Mehmet a better acquistion than Zaza?"

i do not think Boozer was a better move than us getting joe. boozer is a great player but JJ had his best year of his career and led us to a lot of wins this year. And i think okur is better than zaza. zaza is a decent scoring center but the outside shooting of okur really puts him over the top. Obviously the biggest difference is deron williams.

[GST]

Two things:

1. Sloan is head and shoulders above Woodson as a coach.

2. Utah has given proper consideration of their needs while acquiring talent, resulting in a balanced roster with good chemistry. We, for whatever reason, have not gotten a balanced roster, we have just acquired talent. The result is a team with holes in it you could drive a truck through.

The more I think about it, the more I believe BK and Woody are incompatible.

[DJlaysitup]

LETS GO

[DJlaysitup]

your

[DJlaysitup]

Not close

[Diesel]

Had we picked Deron instead of Marvin would we have gone to the playoffs...

I would have to say Yes... and who knows, we might still be in it...

[GST]

I don't think so. Sloan runs a discipled offense that maximizes Deron's talents. As far as I can tell, Woody has no offensive system. If we had gotten Deron, I think we would still be wondering why we suck.

[Buzzard]

Quote:

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1. Sloan is head and shoulders above Woodson as a coach.

2. Utah has given proper consideration of their needs while acquiring talent, resulting in a balanced roster with good chemistry. We, for whatever reason, have not gotten a balanced roster, we have just acquired talent. The result is a team with holes in it you could drive a truck through.

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Jackpot! Your post is the true story in a nutshell. It is not all about the point. Seriously our team is JJ and a whole lot of potential. Who do we have that even comes close to the all-star big men performance AK47 and Boozer displayed in last nights game.

Last games line:

Boozer 25pts and 21 boards, AK47 21 pts and 14 boards, Deron had a horrible last game, 2pts, 7 asst to go with 5 turnovers; but due to Utah's other two great free agent signings; they got 20pts out of Fischer and 14 pts and 10 boards out of Okur.

Diesles Question

Quote:

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The real key in my mind is Atlanta made it's biggest mistake taking Marvin Williams over Deron Williams. Until Marvin Williams step up to all-star status, then that move will haunt this franchise.

Is it just the PG though?

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Diesel, the answer to your question is a hell no! See the real answer below:

Utah has a Great Triumvirate in Deron, AK47, Boozer. All we have is JJ and a lot of potential. And Okur is not a bad 3rd option down low. Hell, Okur is their 3rd option down low and he is better than our 1st option down low.

I want a PG as bad as anyone; but the bottom line is BK has not come close to building a whole team such as Utah. Maybe Smoove and/or MWill turns into our AK47, maybe Shelden turns into our Boozer; but right now, they aint it. And Deron and Okur are head and shoulders above Speedy and ZaZa.

[Buzzard]

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Had we picked Deron instead of Marvin would we have gone to the playoffs...

I would have to say Yes... and who knows, we might still be in it...

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You trying to compare us to Utah just because of Deron is a hoot.

Lineups:

PG Deron vs Speedy

SG Fischer vs JJ

SF AK47 vs MWill

PF Boozer vs Smoove

C Okur vs ZaZa

We only beat Utah at the SG position. If we drafted Deron we would beat them at PG and SG.

This ain't college, guards do not win championships; front lines do.

Their frontline is one of the best, if not the best, overall in the NBA while ours is one of the worse; quite possibly the worse.

We would be a better overall team right now if we had Deron; but to compare our talent to Utah's is similar to comparing the Bird, McHale, Parish frontline to the Celtics current frontline. There really is no comparison.

I said it in a earlier post and I will say it again, Okur is a better option down low than any option we currently have. And he is their 3rd best post player. That is a ridiculous statement to have to make; but it is the truth...

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Had we picked Deron instead of Marvin would we have gone to the playoffs...

I would have to say Yes... and who knows, we might still be in it...

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You trying to compare us to Utah just because of Deron is a hoot.

Lineups:

PG Deron vs Speedy

SG Fischer vs JJ

SF AK47 vs MWill

PF Boozer vs Smoove

C Okur vs ZaZa

We only beat Utah at the SG position. If we drafted Deron we would beat them at PG and SG.

This ain't college, guards do not win championships; front lines do.

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Guard play AND front court play wins championships. Not one without the other.

Teams with elite PG without top notch frontline play don't win.

But teams with elite front line play without top notch PG play doesn't win either.

Look at all the elite big men out of the playoffs.

What's holding us back is we don't have either.

If we get the best available PG in this year's draft and a Solomon Jones/ Shelden Williams develops down low, we'd only be 2 years away from seriously contending.

Not bad considering how young we are.

[Popeye]

I agree with you Buzzard and i think that Deron Williams in Woody's system would be no more than 10 and 5 guy.

[Buzzard]

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What's holding us back is we don't have either

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Exactly! We suck. You just say it in a more politically correct manner. My aurgument was that to say all we needed to do was pick Deron over MWill and we would compare to Utah is stretching things. To put my aurgument in a better context think about this...

Take away their best guard, Deron (The best young PG of all PG's) and Utah still makes the playoffs. Take away our best guard in JJ and we would be lucky to win 10 games.

[Diesel]

Between you and Buzzard, you're saying that there's no hope for the Hawks! WHat's the using of going out and getting a PG if you believe had we had one of the best PGs in the league, we'd still suck. That's ridiculous.

Being Injured all season long and having our best player miss 25 games didn't equate to us being the worst team in the game. Our team obviously needs a PG because as of right now, we have no one that's comparable to a good PG.

I agree that Sloan is head and shoulders better than Woody, but I don't think that's the whole problem... I think we could overcome Woody's failings with a good PG.

[DrReality]

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I don't think so. Sloan runs a discipled offense that maximizes Deron's talents. As far as I can tell, Woody has no offensive system. If we had gotten Deron, I think we would still be wondering why we suck.

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Sloan also gets his guys to play with attitude. They are tough and any one of his guys can take over a game. Tough inside to own the paint. That hasn't happened here since Deke left.

[Buzzard]

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Between you and Buzzard, you're saying that there's no hope for the Hawks!

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Here is what I said concerning our hope:

We would be a better overall team right now if we had Deron; but to compare our talent to Utah's is similar to comparing the Bird, McHale, Parish frontline to the Celtics current frontline. There really is no comparison.

You are a trip with this outlandish comparison of a Western Conference finalist to our Hawks.

Compare us to Toronto with their one all-star (Bosh) or Orlando with their one all-star (Howard) and I will buy it. Why, because at this point and time we our young like they are and also have only one all-star.

But comparing us to Boozer, AK47, Okur, and Deron. Gimme a break...

[Diesel]

If you take Deron out of the equation.

There's nobody on Utah's team as good as JJ. JJ is better than Boozer.

AK47 cannot Shoot worth a damn.

Smoove is better than AK47.

Love them or hate them, but we have Marvin, Chillz, Zaza, and Shelden... vs Milsap, Okur, Gircek, and Brewer. I think that Okur is better than Zaza, but that's about it. Our guys are better otherwise.

So where's this overwhelming greatness on Utah's position?

The truth is that Utah has much better coaching and chemistry and a great part of that chemistry is the right PG.

But if we were to trade rosters with Utah (aside from Deron), we'd be worse than we were.

[macdaddy]

That Blast from the Past makes cris_cross look like a genius. I don't know why he was banned. That was before JJ. A lineup of CP/JJ/Smoove/Al(or even shelden)/Curry would be nice.

Utah picked a different and more expensive route. Sloan is obviously the biggest difference but they have a roster of mostly veterans outside of Deron and Milsap. Some have been on championship teams and they know how to play nba ball. Everyone underestimates the difference experience makes. Is huge on an individual level but even bigger on a team level. Our minutes are overwhelmingly taken by guys with 3 years or less nba experience.

[Packfill]

Quote:

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"So here are the questions:

1. Is Boozer a better acquisition than JJ?

2. Is Mehmet a better acquistion than Zaza?"

i do not think Boozer was a better move than us getting joe. boozer is a great player but JJ had his best year of his career and led us to a lot of wins this year. And i think okur is better than zaza. zaza is a decent scoring center but the outside shooting of okur really puts him over the top. Obviously the biggest difference is deron williams.

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Were you watching the same team that I was? How did JJ lead the Hawks to alot of wins this year? The Hawks had the 4th worse record in the league.

Plus, a strong argument can be made that Boozer was by far the "better" acquisition because the Jazz did not give up anything to get him, whereas the Hawks gave up quite a bit to get JJ.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

ATL vs UTAH ( head to head this year )

Game 1 in Atlanta 12/20: ( Utah 112 - Hawks 106 )

Head to head matchups:

Deron vs Speedy

- Deron: 13 points ( 5 - 11 FG ) . . 9 assists . . 6 turnovers . . 0 steals

- Speedy: 12 points ( 5 - 9 FG ) . . 8 assists . . 2 turnovers . . 6 steals

JJ vs Fisher

- Fisher: 18 points ( 6 - 8 FG ) . . 1 assist . . 2 rebounds . . 1 steal

- JJ: 27 points ( 9 - 18 FG ) . . 5 assists . . 4 rebounds . . 2 steals

AK 47 vs Marvin

- AK: 12 points ( 4 - 7 FG ) . . 5 rebs . . 5 assists . . 2 steals

- Marvin: 9 points ( 2 - 11 FG ) . . 1 rebound . . 2 assists . . 3 steals

Boozer vs Smoove

- Boozer: 13 points ( 5 - 10 FG ) . . 5 rebs . . 4 assists . . 1 steal . . 0 blocks

- Smoove: 23 points ( 9 - 16 FG ) . . 12 rebs . . 4 assists . . 3 steals . . 4 blocks

Okur vs ZaZa

- Okur: 30 points ( 11 - 17 FG ) . . 10 rebs . . 3 assists . . 3 steals

- ZaZa: 9 points ( 1 - 3 FG . . 7 - 8 FT ) . . 5 rebs . . 3 assists .. 1 steal

Milsap vs Shelden

- Milsap: 2 points ( 1 - 3 FG ) . . 2 rebs . . 2 steals . . 17 minutes played

- Shelden: 14 points ( 4 - 7 FG ) . . 6 rebs . . 1 steal . . 25 minutes played

High/Lowlights

- Utah outscores Atlanta 40 - 13 in the 4th quarter to pull out a miraculous win, after Atlanta had played a brilliant 3rd quarter, outscoring Utah 39 - 19.

- No Ty Lue, Salim Stoudamire or Josh Childress this game

- Utah shoots 56% . . Hawks shoot 47%

- Hawks have 23 assists on the night ( 2 total assists in the final 15 minutes ) . . Utah has 28 assists ( 8 assists in the 4th quarter alone )

******************

Game 2 in Utah 2/12: Utah 102 - Hawks 76

Head to head matchups:

Deron vs Ivey

- Deron: 7 points . . 9 assists . . 6 rebounds

- Ivey: 6 points . . 1 rebound . . 1 assist

Fisher vs JJ

- Fisher: 14 points ( 4 - 8 FG ) . . 3 rebounds . . 4 assists

- JJ: 14 points ( 5 - 14 FG ) . . 1 rebound . . 3 assists

AK vs Marvin

- AK: 11 points . . 4 rebounds . . 4 assists . . 2 steals . . 4 blocks

- Marvin: 15 points ( 6 - 12 FG ) . . 1 rebound . . 2 assists . . 1 block

Okur vs Smoove

- Okur: 19 points ( 4 - 9 FG . . 9 - 10 FT ) . . 6 rebounds

- Smoove: 10 points ( 3 - 12 FG ) . . 6 rebounds . . 3 assists . . 4 blocks

Jarron Collins vs Lo Wright

- Collins: 3 points . . 5 rebounds

- Lo Wright: 0 points . . 2 rebounds

Bench numbers

Shelden vs Milsap

- Milsap: 13 points . . 9 rebounds . . 17 minutes

- Shelden: 8 points . . 9 rebounds . . 25 minutes

- Speedy ( off the bench ): 2 points . . 2 rebounds . . 0 assists

- ZaZa ( off the bench ): 10 points . . 3 rebounds

High/Lowlights

- No Boozer for Utah this game.

- No Lue for ATL this game

- Hawks down 50 - 32 at Halftime

- Hawks shoot 37% and had 10 total assists in the game

Just tossing out some numbers in their head to head matchups this year.