The near ideal trade for Atlanta using the 3rd pk

[Johnnybravo4]

It has already been established that Smoove functions better at the 4 than the 3. The other forwards on our team are too slow footed to play the 3. Therefore you basically resign Childress to big minutes playing 3 and hope he stays healthy.

[Packfill]

It is a lot easier to find a swing man then a center. Plus, I think Smoove can function at small forward just fine.

[Guest Walter]

You guys are just plain silly. Bynum is a stud WHO PLAYS A POSITION OF NEED. Foye can be a great playmaker next to JJ. AND THE DEAL IS PLAUSIBLE AND CAN GET DONE!

Yet, you guys hem and haw and want 6 RPG Hibbert over Bynum (are you [censored] crazy!?!) and laud the play of MW as if he's worth a top 8 pick now, even though we have three other forwards, 2 of them lottery.

But most importantly NONE OF YOU BK AND ASG FANS HAVE A SINGLE CREDIBLE IDEA OF YOUR OWN AS TO HOW TO SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVE THIS TEAM!

I potentially solve BOTH our positional needs with a great prospect in Bynum and a very good one in Foye using a redundant player in MW and a 3rd pick we would have to reach with to fill our needs, I don't cost us our 11th pick, and you guys just make asses of yourselves. What's new?

Northcyde, the new GSUteke. GSUteke, the new KB. KB, the new ?

W

[Diesel]

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Bynum is a stud WHO PLAYS A POSITION OF NEED.

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First off, we've already discussed how Foye is not going anywhere. Maybe they give up one of their other Pgs like Jaric or Hudson...

But when did Bynum become "A Stud"...

I take that to mean that he's worth #3 and #2 (2005) pick in the draft? Nah.

I would rather watch BK draft our 54th Sf than to watch us get screwed in trade like that for a guy who hasn't proven anything...

[BusBoyIsBack]

Bynum's not a stud but he's got great upside at a more important position than SF.

[gsuteke]

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Bynum's not a stud but he's got great upside at a more important position than SF.

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you say to-may-to, i say to-mah-to

[Guest Walter]

The deal involved us getting rid of not-so-speedy Claxton.

If you can't argue against the proposed deal, make up your own strawman deal to tear down.

Suddenly Speedy's contract, MW, and 3rd pick in a draft where Pfs will remain at 3 for Bynum, Foye, and Radman becomes "a #3 pick and a #2 pick for Bynum". Now isn't that clever nonsense.

W

[AtLaS]

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Again, Foye and Bynum are worth MW (don't try and sell your

most hated player

as WORTH a #2 pick) and a 3rd pick REACH (who, exactly are you proposing here...Hibbert?...he's worth a 6-9th pick in this draft IMO).

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I would definitely do that trade, but LAL wouldn't. They are in win now mode, if they trade Bynum it's going to be for a proven star to help out Kobe. They wouldn't trade him for Kidd, I doubt they do it for Marvin and a prospect for the future when they have the best player in the NBA in his prime. Plus, they don't need an SF anyway.

[Guest Walter]

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Again, Foye and Bynum are worth MW (don't try and sell your

most hated player

as WORTH a #2 pick) and a 3rd pick REACH (who, exactly are you proposing here...Hibbert?...he's worth a 6-9th pick in this draft IMO).

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I would definitely do that trade, but LAL wouldn't. They are in win now mode, if they trade Bynum it's going to be for a proven star to help out Kobe. They wouldn't trade him for Kidd, I doubt they do it for Marvin and a prospect for the future when they have the best player in the NBA in his prime. Plus, they don't need an SF anyway.

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It was a 3-way deal.

Minny sends Garnett to LA and Foye to Atl

Atl sends MW, 3rd pick, and Speedy to Minny...possibly Lue to LA

LA sends Radman, Bynum, Cook to Atl...Odom to LA

Minny ends up with Odom, MW, 3rd pick, Speedy

Lakers end up with Garnett

Hawks end up with Bynum, Foye, Radman, Cook

It's simple, done. Everybody gets not only what they want, but what they need, where they need it. Easy. Minny loses Garnett and Foye to build with but gets Odom, MW, a 3rd pick, and their own 5th? pick. If we send Lue then Minny could also get LA's 19th pick as the Lakers wouldn't need it to fill out their roster (as if LA couldn't sign plenty of FAs).

People can't comment on the deal at hand. They have to strawman it and then act like tough guy idiots. That's why you didn't know Garnett was going to LA. Sorry for your troubles.

My take when your the 4th losingest team in the league and a league embarassment? Don't worry about what other teams get, just MAKE YOUR TEAM BETTER! Last year I suggested Childress and Harrington for Bynum...people cried about giving up too much...BULL! MAKE your team better...NOW.

This deal makes our team better and better than the alternative. It gets rid of Speedy's contract, utilizes the 3rd overall pick in a draft with forwards everywhere we don't need to acquire a center, and it trades a redundant asset to fill a position. It also exchanges one (supposed) scorer (MW) for another one (Foye) as we need offense. We also retain our 11th pick to use as we see fit.

Consider this lineup:

Bynum/ZaZa

JS/SW

JC/JS

JJ

Foye/AJ/Salim

Plug in Noah at Pf, Brewer at Sf, somebody is going to fall...or even still get a Pg and set us a 3 guard rotation.

We are the 4th worst team in the league. We can't worry about other teams. We can only afford to worry about ourselves.

W

[Diesel]

You simply believe that because You say it, it can happen and then you run with it as if it's true. Like Last year when you blamed BK for turning down Al/Childress for Bynum.. The problem is that offer was never made anywhere except here on Hawksquawk in one of your posts.

Again, you're speaking as if this is a doable trade. However, as I have told you, Minny is not likely to give up KG and Foye... If you haven't figured it out, Minny is very high on KG. They are equally high on Foye.

Not to mention the fans... Read some of their comments...

Click here.

They are talking about trading Foye.. but in return they want either Kidd or JO or Marion...

Who wants a busted up Speedy (with a bad contract), a overhyped Marvin and a 3rd pick when they have Foye, Bynum, and a 7th pick??

Does that even make sense to you.

You're suggesting that Minny makes the trade of KG for Bynum and Odom...

Then they give up Bynum and Foye for Marvin, Speedy, and #3??

Why?

I don't think they're stupid enough to give up a PG and a Center for Sfs... Only BK would do that!

[AtLaS]

No way Minny does that deal. Foye is a much better prospect than Marvin, and they are essentially trading KG for the #3, Odom and Speedy's contract? Odom is completely unneeded in Minny and they don't need his contract, they don't need Speedy's contract, and a #3 and a redundant SF for that is not enough.

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Don't worry about what other teams get, just MAKE YOUR TEAM BETTER!

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It takes 2 teams to make a deal. Propose it on the RealGM trade board and you will see what Minny fans think.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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You guys are just plain silly. Bynum is a stud WHO PLAYS A POSITION OF NEED. Foye can be a great playmaker next to JJ. AND THE DEAL IS PLAUSIBLE AND CAN GET DONE!

Yet, you guys hem and haw and want 6 RPG Hibbert over Bynum (are you [censored] crazy!?!) and laud the play of MW as if he's worth a top 8 pick now, even though we have three other forwards, 2 of them lottery.

But most importantly

NONE OF YOU BK AND ASG FANS HAVE A SINGLE CREDIBLE IDEA OF YOUR OWN AS TO HOW TO SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVE THIS TEAM!

I potentially solve BOTH our positional needs with a great prospect in Bynum and a very good one in Foye using a redundant player in MW and a 3rd pick we would have to reach with to fill our needs, I don't cost us our 11th pick, and you guys just make asses of yourselves. What's new?

Northcyde, the new GSUteke. GSUteke, the new KB. KB, the new ?

W

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You obviously see what you want to see Walter. Just because I'm not 100% behind your trade idea, doesn't mean that I wouldn't be totally against it if it happened. I could see why the Hawks would do it . . even if I wouldn't personally do the move. I think I explained that pretty thoroughly in my original post.

That "stud" you talk about, can't even beat out Kwame Brown as the starter, on a team that desperately needed good play in the middle. Bynum does show flashes of greatness every once in a while. But he is a very inconsistent basketball player, especially on the defensive end. That's why a Hall of Fame coach like Phil Jackson opted to play Kwame, instead of Andrew. Now . . if you don't agree with that, write Phil an e-mail and tell him how much of an idiot HE is for not playing Andrew.

If he were such a "stud" and a gamechanger, he would've played a lot of minutes against Amare in the Phoenix series. But the fact is that as of right now, Kwame Brown is the better player on both ends of the floor, even if his upside is very limited, compared to Andrew's upside.

And when you say that Foye CAN be a great playmaker, you obviously haven't seen much of Minnesota play this year. What sets Foye apart from most guards, is that he's a pretty good defender, and can play AND defend both guard positions. Most importantly, he can score either via the open jumpshot, or by taking the ball strong to the hole ( ala Ben Gordon ). But as a playmaker? Please.

I watched a ton of Minny games this year, mainly because I wanted to see how my boy Trenton Hassell was playing this year. Foye got a lot of his assists the same way that JT used to get his assists . . by passing to jumpshooters who caught and shot the ball to give him an assist.

It wasn't like Foye was penetrating in the lane, drawing people to him, then kicking the ball out to a shooter or finding someone under the basket for an easy dunk. When Foye goes to the hole, he's a lot like Ben Gordon in the fact that he's looking to score, not create for others.

Look at the numbers Foye put up in April, by far his best month as a pro in just about every category.

15.4 ppg

3.5 rebs

3.8 assists

3.1 turnovers

53% FG

50% 3FG

In the previous 5 months, Randy shot

41% FG - 22% 3FG ( March )

41% FG - 50% 3FG ( February )

39% FG - 35% 3FG ( January )

48% FG - 30% 3FG ( December )

42% FG - 29% 3FG ( November )

That's what Randy would bring to the table, although I seriously doubt that he could shoot both 50% from both the field and from 3-point range. He'll be more around the 45% FG and 37% from 3, which is dang good for a young guard.

But up until April, he showed no indication that he could play that well at all. As people have said before, Foye is a lead guard, not a playmaking PG. But he can play both guard positions, making him a value to any team picking him up. But to try to say that he can be a "great" playmaker, is so far from the truth, it isn't even funny. What he can be, is a Mike Bibby type playmaker, with the potential to be a Baron Davis type scorer. But even that is probably another 2 - 3 years from happening, considering the state of the T-Wolves these days.

Maybe we should chalk up Foye playing so well in April, to the fact that he was playing against NBDL talent, much like some of you say about the numbers that Shelden put up in April.

As far as Hibbert goes, I think that offensively, Hibbert is a much more polished player than what Andrew is right now. The guy is pretty graceful around the basket, can hit about 70% of his free throws, can hit a mid-range jumper, and is a pretty good on the ball defender. Unlike Josh Smith, he isn't a good defender only because he can block a few shots. Hibbert is a good defender because he can block shots and play man defense.

When Oden and Hibbert went head to head against each other, Hibbert didn't back down from Oden one bit, and got his offense. And Oden didn't manhandle him either. It was a pretty good matchup against the 2 best centers in college. And we're not even going to talk about the game Hibbert had against UNC the game before.

Hibbert isn't going to be a scrub in the NBA, and he may be better than Bynum right now. We won't see that, until they go head to head though. Neither may live up to be great centers, only serviceable ones.

If the Hawks aren't going to transform themselves into a running team, give me Hibbert instead of Bynum. And for that matter, give me Law instead of Foye, because I trust Law as a playmaker and as a shooter, much more than I trust Foye.

PG - Law ( or Speedy )

G - JJ . . Salim

F - Marvin . . Chill

F - Smoove . . Shelden

C - Hibbert . . ZaZa

I'll take that squad going into next season. You can take yours. Argue all you want on which combo would be better for us next year. You can't prove a thing, because we'll never know. It'll all be just speculation.

And I know Walter. Marvin nor Shelden nor anybody else on this roster will improve next season. So in your eyes, this is a failure. To each his own.

(( tossing the ball back to you, so you can do your childish namecalling once again ))

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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The deal involved us getting rid of not-so-speedy Claxton.

If you can't argue against the proposed deal, make up your own strawman deal to tear down.

Suddenly Speedy's contract, MW, and 3rd pick in a draft where Pfs will remain at 3 for Bynum, Foye, and Radman becomes "a #3 pick and a #2 pick for Bynum". Now isn't that clever nonsense.

W

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But this is always your problem Walter. You propose deals that sound good on paper, but never really consider why the other side would even make a deal like that.

Speedy had his worst year as a pro, and was chronically injured. Now tell me who will make ANY trade for him right now? If anything, you wait and see if Speedy can get healthy, produces a little, THEN trade him when his value is higher. But as of right now, no sane GM in the league would trade for Speedy, and that contract.

It's the same reason why Minny can't get rid of guys like Hudson and Jaric, and even Mike James for that matter. Who in their right mind would trade for those guys, with the amount of money left on their contracts?

Unless Speedy improves to the level he was 2 years ago, he's going to be a Hawk for the next 4 years, whether we like it or not. That's just reality. Now we can cut him before then, but it still doesn't do us any good cap wise.

I tell you what Walter. Go to the RealGM or ESPN boards, and post your trade on the Lakers and the T-Wolves board. See what response you'll get from their fans. Don't cry to us because we disagree with your elaborate, but unrealistic schemes. Post on their boards, and see if THEY agree with you.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I should've read the entire thread, before posting my comments. Diesel and Atlas pretty much summed up everything I was thinking. I could've saved about 30 minutes of typing.

Walter needs to stop making these NBA Live type trades, in which he can make a deal and have the computer just immeadiately accept it because it fits under the cap.

[Guest Walter]

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But this is always your problem Walter. You propose deals that sound good on paper, but never really consider why the other side would even make a deal like that.

Speedy had his worst year as a pro, and was chronically injured. Now tell me who will make ANY trade for him right now? If anything, you wait and see if Speedy can get healthy, produces a little, THEN trade him when his value is higher. But as of right now, no sane GM in the league would trade for Speedy, and that contract.

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Dulneavy AND Murphy given their contracts? It happens each and every year. Somebody gets traded you wouldn't think would have.

As far as my deal AGAIN people, you included nortcyde, cannot discuss the deal itself but instead one tiny aspect of it. The REASON Minny does it is because they get a THRID OVERALL PICK N-O-W. They don't have to wait or hope for a lotter pick maybe. They get the 3rd overall pick A-N-D Marvin Williams AND Odom A-N-D possibly LA's 19th overall pick. Minny certainly has no need for Speed, but they do have a need for picks and prospects if they decide to rebuild.

Again, what's your big idea?

W

[TheNorthCydeRises]

But it was a bad deal that Indiana made though Walter. Most people said that in the beginning, even though the deal looked like it would work for Indy. I didn't see anybody saying that the Golden St. side of that deal was bad. The vast majority of "experts" loved the deal for G. State.

Like I said Walter . . go post on a RealGM board, and see if the Minny fans agree with you. If they do, post a link of the convo, saying where they would agree to the deal.

You talk about one tiny aspect of a deal, like deals aren't broken because of one tiny aspect.

You don't like my idea because anything I suggest isn't good enough for you . . because it disagrees with the Walter "grand plan" for the Hawks.

************

My idea if we got the #3 pick? Try to package Marvin + fillers ( the expiring contracts of the PGs ) and the pick to bring an established player here . . a player that another team has given up on. Not a prospect.

Give me a player that I know that can play. A Zack Randolph. A Rashard Lewis. A Jason Kidd ( if the Nets decide to blow up everything ). Heck, I'd rather have a deal in which we'd land Lamar Odom here, instead of Bynum. Put Odom at the 3 . . keep Smoove at the 4 . . and the Hawks rapidly improve, even without a decent big man. Odom could essentially play the point forward for us, and make the entire team better, especially JJ.

But I choose to be realistic, and not live in some fantasy trade world, where every deal I suggest would be feesible AND accepted by the other team. The real world isn't like that.

So this is what I would do.

At #3 . . I'd take Hibbert

At #11 . . I'd take Law

Simple as that. Now if someone wanted to make an offer for Hibbert + marvin + one of the PGs, for a good veteran player, I'd listen. If not, I'll role with Hibbert and Marvin.

PG - Speedy ( or Law )

G - JJ

F - Marvin

F - Smoove

C - Hibbert

But of course, you wouldn't like that because you don't think Marvin will improve. So be it.

It's like I've said many times before. It's more important for the core of this team to dramatically improve ( JJ, Smoove, Marvin, and possibly Chill ), than to hope that whoever we bring in here, will put us into contention.

I don't see any regression in JJ, Smoove, Marvin, or Chill. If we kept all of them, that's just fine with me.

And I'd have no problem rolling with Hibbert as our "project" center. And I have every bit of confidence that Law could easily be the PG for this team right off the bat, if need be.

Now disagree with my plan. I have no problem with it.

But you go post your ideas on the boards that you're trying to trade with, and see if they agree with you . . or laugh you off of their board.

Simple as that.

[Guest Walter]

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Like I said Walter . . go post on a RealGM board, and see if the Minny fans agree with you. If they do, post a link of the convo, saying where they would agree to the deal.

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...us winning the 3rd overall pick. No other team cares about that rare scenario?

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At #3 . . I'd take Hibbert

At #11 . . I'd take Law

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Bynum is better than Hibbert, Foye is better than Law.

W

[AtLaS]

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...us winning the 3rd overall pick. No other team cares about that rare scenario?

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They'd still answer the question. Just type somethin like "If the Hawks get the #3," just propose it on their board or something. I can almost guarantee they'll shoot it down.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Like I said Walter . . go post on a RealGM board, and see if the Minny fans agree with you. If they do, post a link of the convo, saying where they would agree to the deal.

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...us winning the 3rd overall pick. No other team cares about that rare scenario?

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At #3 . . I'd take Hibbert

At #11 . . I'd take Law

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Bynum is better than Hibbert, Foye is better than Law.

W

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How is Foye better than Law?

And no way is Bynum better than Hibbert defensively which is more important in the grand scheme of things.

Hibbert will be a top 5 pick for a reason. It's incredibly hard to find a guy his size with the ability and attitude to be committed to D.

[Guest Walter]

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How is Foye better than Law?

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He's taller, bigger, stronger, qicker with the ball...

but aside from that...

Foye is a better scorer, rebounder, defender...Law is the better shooter and passer. It's not by much still but I'd rather have Foye

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And no way is Bynum better than Hibbert defensively which is more important in the grand scheme of things.

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Are you serious? Hibbert gets 6 RPG and simply may be too slow and unatheletic to defend well in the NBA!?! For me Hibbert is almost impossible to project but I certainly wouldn't give hi mthe defensive edge much less the overall player edge (isn't THAT what we're after most?) over Bynum. He had one decent game against Oden and went from a late lottery or lower to high lottery prospect. I'm not sure I buy it. Mind you, I'd take Hibbert in a heartbeat and assume the risk, but Bynum's better.

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Hibbert will be a top 5 pick for a reason. It's incredibly hard to find a guy his size with the ability and attitude to be committed to D.

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It's even harder to find a top 5 pick with less athleticism. I'm just saying, Bynum doesn't have limits to his potential, Hibbert does and they are significant. I like what Hibbert has done within his limits but I'm not certain how well they translate to the NBA and I seriously doubt they translate better than Bynum will.

W