What is the Hawks most pressing need?

[Diesel]

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While I can understand why everyone would want a Pg and a Center, given that we were the 4th worst team in the league and the fact that our two top players are aggregate statistically weaker than all the top 10 team's and half the middle ten team's top 2 players, I don't see how a superstar talent cannot be our first and foremost need.

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Mainly because we have gone that route of taking superstar talent over need with Marvin. Nobody wants to get an undeveloped superstar. If they did, everybody on the board would be clamouring about getting Wright. Now, Wright may be superstar or not but he definitely has the potential. Critt too. BUt you know what I say about potential... It means absolutely nothing until it's realized.

Therefore, smart money says: Go after Gasol or GO after Yi. They are more developed.

[sturt]

Do younger players tend to progress from year to year?

If one can be so bullish on Andrew Bynum's future, how is it that one can be so bearish on Marvin Williams' future?

Must a player have relatively instant success, regardless of his age entering the NBA in order for fans to perceive value? Why is that?

And why is it so easy to justify being bearish on the April Rookie of the Month?

In fact, why is it so easy to justify being bearish on the entire roster of what has constituted the NBA's youngest team for the last two years?

Do younger players not tend to develop? And if the problem is the rate at which they develop, how does one measure that, if not through wins and losses?

Pardon me... just asking.

[Diesel]

What befuddles me is that we say our most pressing need is PG, yet there are some who voted that PG was the position we can hold off on the longest?

[sturt]

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........Therefore, smart money says: Go after Gasol or GO after Yi. They are more developed.

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While I get what you're saying about MWill, need I remind you that one year ago BK drafted the consensus "most NBA ready player" (read: "developed," ie, "smart money")???

Now, I recognize that I'm standing quite alone here b/c I seem to be in the minority who believe that the value of a given draft pick can't truly be evaluated, at least ordinarily, until a player reaches his mid-20s.

But I think history bears that out.

Look, there's no magic to either philosophy... (and in fact, there's probably more luck than any one of us would like to admit...)

Taking the safe player has been rewarding at times and taking the high-ceiling player has been rewarding at times... and there's little solid rationale that explains when which of the two is more rewarding.

[Buzzard]

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Do younger players tend to progress from year to year?

If one can be so bullish on Andrew Bynum's future, how is it that one can be so bearish on Marvin Williams' future?

Must a player have relatively instant success, regardless of his age entering the NBA in order for fans to perceive value? Why is that?

And why is it so easy to justify being bearish on the April Rookie of the Month?

In fact, why is it so easy to justify being bearish on the entire roster of what has constituted the NBA's youngest team for the last two years?

Do younger players not tend to develop? And if the problem is the rate at which they develop, how does one measure that, if not through wins and losses?

Pardon me... just asking.

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Perfect post on the MWill vs Smoove debate. I think the issue on MWill boils down to two reasons. 1st off, a lot of fans viewed MWill as a threat to Smoove if either one did not work out as a power forward. Secondly, most of us are getting tired of BK drafting forwards. Which also explains the animosity on the Shelden pick.

How else can you explain people seeing Bynum as the next solid center and MWill as a bust; while MWill's production has been better than Bynum's. It is just not logical to assume Bynum's ceiling is higher than MWill's; yet a lot of squawkers see it that way. I think Shelden and Bynum's production are pretty even; but did we really need to draft another forward last year?

I do think our most pressing need is a PG. But that does not mean reach for one at 3 if a better center prospect is there. I personally think that the PG position is more talented now than the Center position. Take the point at 3 if a decent trade is not available.

[Guest Walter]

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Do younger players tend to progress from year to year?

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The statistics indicating our top 2 players were less productive than the top 2 players of each and every one of the top 10 and half the middle 10 teams were per48. While young players can progress, MW's per48 statistical average WENT DOWN in his second year relative to his 1st and is very, VERY LOW. Don't let meager stats in a vastly increased amount of MPG fool you, MW is NOT improving in per minute production and he certainly is not doing so at a pace that will EVER make him better than JS or JJ.

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If one can be so bullish on Andrew Bynum's future, how is it that one can be so bearish on Marvin Williams' future?

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Bynum's TENDEX per48 was 11.82 his rookie season (MW 16.66) and 23.52 in his sophomore season (MW 16.42). That indicates a steep, but fast learning curve and one that has passed MW who is already stagnant in terms of production. Remember that Bynum doesn't have a year of major college and plays the position latest to develop. There is NO DOUBT he is a better prospect. Moreover, he plays a position hard to fill and of need for us.

Sturt, you are excused for hoping rather than being reasonable. You can HOPE for "improvement" making the difference, but you MUST NOT rely on it given these facts. Doing so based upon your FEELINGS and based upon the mere possibility that players who haven't improved and who would have to improve in such a way as to shock the world is not reasonable and certainly if followed by a franchise would be FAR more often franchise d@mning than not. Be reasonable, be pragmatic. MW developing into a star > JS or JJ is NOT whom you want to hinge our franchise future on.

[Diesel]

While I understand your statement, I also look at the facts of the matter...

NO Rookie will be 100% ready for the NBA. I think Shelden showed that he was pretty good to start, got injured, tried to play through the injury, got healthy and finished up strong. In the midst of that, his coach didn't play him, couldn't see eye to eye with him. If Shelden were getting that 35 mpg all season that Marvin sees, I think Shelden would have been in the running for ROY. Of course, that's speculation, but I can guarantee you that the wait time for Shelden to be productive will be much shorter than that for Marvin (if given significant playing time).

[BusBoyIsBack]

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What befuddles me is that we say our most pressing need is PG, yet there are some who voted that PG was the position we can hold off on the longest?

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IN THE DRAFT.

We can afford to wait till the 11th pick to address it.

Post player? Not so much.

[AtLaS]

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Go after Gasol or GO after Yi. They are more developed.

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Why would you want to go after Yi, wouldn't he be drafted to further bench your prized possession Shelden?

[Guest Walter]

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How else can you explain people seeing Bynum as the next solid center and MWill as a bust; while MWill's production has been better than Bynum's.

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If you compare them on even fields of play Bynum CRUSHES MW despite having a year less (major college) experience and playing center, where players are the last to develop, instead of Sf, where they develop first.

It's an out-right LIE to say MW was more productive. Per48 TENDEX has Bynum at 23.5 and MW at 16.4. THAT IS A MONSTROUS DIFFERENCE IN FAVOR OF BYNUM being more productive.

Moreover, Bynum IMPROVED whereas MW went from 16.6 to 16.4 in terms of TENDEX per48 his rookie to his sophomore year. All MW did is play more.

Bynum has improved more, is statistically more productive, with less experience, at a position where players develop later, at a position that is harder to fill, at a position of need. What else is there to say, but stop lieing and recognize.

W

[Nicholasp27]

we HAVE superstar talent; smoove is on his way and JJ is already an allstar...and marvin may still develop yet

we HAVE a pf...smoove

what we DON'T have is a decent long-term pg solution...a healthy speedy would be great for the next few years, but speedy/lue/aj are not gonna be here 5 years from now when jj/smoove/marvin/zaza/shelden/chill/solo/slim are in their prime

we need a pg FIRST and FOREMOST...we have a BAD coach; best way to counteract that is to get an on-the-floor coach in a GREAT pg

we are all set there with #11 pick since it looks like conley/crit/law are all legit prospects

so if there is a legit starting center prospect in the draft, then draft that at 3...doesn't seem like it's there, so either trade #3 for a center or draft yi/wright/bpa

at least then we continue to compile talent and may get a superstar candidate out of it

[Gray Mule]

Hawks players aren't all great, all star type players.

But Stu is right, they aren't as bad as some picture

them to be. Most are VERY young and had injuries last

season - - Don't kick them until you see them play

injury free.

[Diesel]

NO. I believe we can exist with a three forward set. I don't care what you call what, if we play a zone, positions don't matter too much.

[AtLaS]

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NO. I believe we can exist with a three forward set. I don't care what you call what, if we play a zone, positions don't matter too much.

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So you're in the "Yi is a center" camp?

[Diesel]

I'm in the Yi for 7 footer camp...

after

I get off the trade for Gasol platform.

You don't have to have a true Wilt Chamberlain Center to be successful in today's NBA. Look at the teams that are left in it: Cavs = Ilguaska. Utah = Okur. Detroit = Webber. San Anton = Duncan. 3/4s of those "centers" were once considered PFs. Position really don't matter if you come up with a working defensive scheme.

Moreover, you should want the versatility to be able to match these Speed teams. Shall we ask Shaq about it?

[AtLaS]

We don't have the shooters that those teams have, and we don't have a Lebron James. The Pistons are such a great all around team that they can get away with having an average center.

Yi is a forward and he would further bench Shelden, or Yi would become the 4th/5th forward on our team to get minutes, meaning he or Shelden won't play.

[TroyMcClure]

Have you heard of this thing they call "trading"? They let you trade players and picks and all that. Seriously, we are way off from being a good team. We need talent and I'm with Diesel, 7ft talent is nice, forward or not. We can still get a project guard like Critt at #11.

[Diesel]

Weather Shelden would play off the bench is not an issue. Yi is my backup plan because he has superstar potential. 7 foot tall, runs like a gazzelle, and he has a knowledge of the game.

You say Diesel, how do you know.

There's something out called Yi's 18 moves. They are just fundamental moves that basketball players should know. Aside from the rebounding, Yi is very impressive. That plus the clips I have seen of his game play which highlights his basketball awareness tells me that even if he's not a big impact player first year, he will be one.

If we can get a good PG like Law or Critt at 11, Yi is a chance we can take now.

Moreover, ALL of our players are tradable... So there's no need in saving a spot for them in a glass box. That's what it seems like you have done. I want you to know that I don't do that. If it can make the Hawks better without hurting them in the future, I'm all for it.

The Bottom line is this: We don't want to be the guys who missed out on Deron,Paul, Roy, and Yi... Yi has definite skills... He's deserving of a good look!

[AtLaS]

That's fine, I'm just glad y'all don't think he can play center. If you think his talent is so great that you absolutely HAVE to take him over Conley (a desperate need), then you have an argument. Not an argument that I agree with, but at least it's not wishful thinking such as playing him at center. It's just hard to believe that after all the bashing everyone on this site has given BK for taking so many forwards, y'all are now wanting another PROJECT one.

All I know is, JJ has already came out and said we really need help at PG, and Josh Smith is an rFA next season. Taking more project players at unneeded positions is asking Smith to leave and JJ to ask for a trade.

[AtLaS]

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We don't want to be the guys who missed out on Deron,Paul, Roy, and Yi...

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Sub Conley with Yi and I agree with you.