Is the prejudice on YI starting to lift??

[Diesel]

What I posted to Googleman was this:

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AHF then said something to the effect that one can conclude that Yi has no upside.

I'm sure that AHF was trying to surmize that there is a way that

somebody

could come to the opionion that Yi has no upside without being prejudice. However, I still state that if that ONE has no basis or justification, it's prejudice. And it's damn near impossible to watch a 7'1" guy with Yi's skillset and speed and tell me that there's a basis for saying he has no upside.

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So there was no confusion about what you said. I still think that what you said is about as valuable to the conversation as saying the sun is not hot. You're trying to make a point about something that is fictious. YOu yourself don't believe that Yi has no upside. It would be stupid for anybody to believe that Yi has no upside... So why are we talking about it being possible for a person to conclude that yi has no upside and still not be "racist".

[Joker]

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And what 22(?) year old, skinny, forward from the CBA led their team anywhere?

That's not an argument for taking Yi, it's an argument for trading the pick. At least with Conley you're moving toward filling a need.

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You can't answer the question because there aren't any. Mike Conley is going to be the first?

Yi would easily be, at worst, the 3rd or 4th best player we have. I say draft Yi and trade him or trade Marvin. Get some scrub, won't materialize pg at #11. Then, in a few years we can bring in a real pg.

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your not using facts at all

Yi will not instantly be the 3th or 4th best player on this team.

This is about getting rid of Marvin like I assume when you guy get all hype over guys you never seen play before and don't understand the game to make a logical decision. Other then some of you seeing Conley knowing he not the answer, many of you think what the next best thing, B. Wright... nope he plays the same position as Smith, wait I got it, Yi is like Dirk and Bargs, he can play SF and we can get rid of Marvin... cool

I could understand if there was a good reason for Yi.

1. TV contract in China, which is a new market and Yi being one of the most popluar players from there.

2. The fact that he is a mystery too many.

3. He is a highlight reel and he showed that he can finish in the NBA and has the exposive to do so like he did in the CBA.

But none of those made the Hawks winner or even better just makes them have less money and maybe a TV contract to drain the pain from losing. This team isn't that close to the playoff, this reach of no injurys = playoffs is the biggest load of horses%$t I've heard in sometime.

[AHF]

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AHF said

"That said, you could still conclude that Yi doesn't have a high upside and not be racist. "

Maybe if you were'nt so busy googling pictures you could read the thread before you make dumb comments.

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If you read that in context to mean that I believe that Yi has no upside rather than as saying that a hypothetical person could conclude Yi does not have upside based on something other than race then I don't know what to tell you. I can't imagine how you find this confusing.

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I haven't read everything, but how could a reasonable person, who's picked up a basketball in his life, say Yi does not have MAJOR upside? Who could say that? No one with any credibility. From a talent standpoint, he can do more things than any other player in this draft except Durant. Maybe more than him. The worst I've heard is 4th hand stuff about Del Harris saying he was a first rounder but not a top pick. I like Del Harris, but to my knowledge he has never been involved with drafting and team building. Or winning championships.

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Go back and read the thread.

The comment was not one on whether any reasonable person would say that Yi has not upside (which I agree with you does not happen because any reasonable person acknowledges that Yi has upside).

The comment was about whether someone could be critical of Yi without being a racist. Specifically whether someone like thesheedera could make the comments he did without being prejudiced against Yi or stereotyping Yi based on his race.

[TroyMcClure]

Just to clarify, AHF... I don't think any person, hypothetical or not, who has ever played the game or knows anything about it, could say honestly that Yi has no upside.

Unless they knew of him personally, this would be garbage. The only thing that could stop Yi, is Yi. Who knows what's going on in his head? I don't. I do know he is easily the 3rd best talent available.

[AHF]

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Prejudice to me is prejudge unfavorably without basis.

In other words, the only reason I would pick Durant over Yi is because I haven't seen Yi so I automatically think that what I have seen is better. That's prejudice.

YOU AHF were the first to make prejudice into a racial prejudice... that's prejudging unfavorably on the basis of race.

I told you a long time ago, it's not race, it's exposure.

It's not nationalism. It's Exposure.

If you don't believe that you can be prejudice based on exposure, then you've never met a person who didn't like something because they've never been exposed to it.

In college, I dated a girl who didn't like grits but she had never had them. Once she had them, she wanted them everyday. Her original attitude was prejudice. She was prejudice of grits because she knew nothing about them.

I think it is the same with a lot of posters here. Their lack of exposure to Yi causes them to make statements that are not valid, causes them to judge yi as being ___________. and they have never seen him play..

My question is what is your basis? They have none...

If you ask me my basis for liking him, I will say He's fast, He's 7'1 245. He's coordinated. He's got good fundamentals. He's exhibited good footwork in the clips I have seen.

I would doubt that you can come across that kind of set in the next 3 drafts.

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Prejudice on the basis of race = racism.

Agree or disagree?

[Diesel]

Exactly...

The only way that Any Person could come to a conclusion that Yi has no upside is if they have prejudged him with no basis...

[AHF]

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Just to clarify, AHF... I don't think any person, hypothetical or not, who has ever played the game or knows anything about it, could say honestly that Yi has no upside.

Unless they knew of him personally, this would be garbage. The only thing that could stop Yi, is Yi. Who knows what's going on in his head? I don't. I do know he is easily the 3rd best talent available.

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I don't think a reasonable person could look at the big picture and conclude that Yi has no upside. However, they could do it without being prejudiced based on race.

I do think someone could conclude something like "Anyone who gets abused by Wang Zhi Zhi has no upside. I have seen Wang Zhi Zhi and he sucks. Yi let Wang Zhi Zhi ring up 20 and 10 on you over and over on him in the CBA playoffs and therefore has no upside" without resorting to prejudice or stereotyping against Yi based on race.

I would disagree without that person and tell them to look at a bigger picture but I could see some hypothetical person doing that.

[exodus]

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"That said, you could still conclude that Yi doesn't have a

high

upside and not be racist. "

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Even in AHF's completely hypothetical comment he didn't say that Yi had no upside.

Saying he doesn't have a high upside is completely different from saying he has no upside.

[Diesel]

For someone who is supposed to be "God's gift to Logic".. You're missing the boat today.

My contention is Prejudice on the basis of exposure.

NOT RACE.

[TroyMcClure]

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If you read that in context to mean that I believe that Yi has no upside rather than as saying that a hypothetical person could conclude Yi does not have upside based on something other than race then I don't know what to tell you. I can't imagine how you find this confusing.

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I'm just saying that your hypothetical person could not exist. No reasonable person, with any knowledge, could say what your hypothetical person is saying.

[thesheedera]

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Well, Yi is soft.

or

Well, Durant is a "Special player" and Yi is another Sf.

Come on man... the truth is that until they are both in the same place doing the same thing, you can't make that kind of statement and definitely can't make an absolute judgement.

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I can make the statement that Durant is a special player. I never have made any kind of absolute statement about Yi, and I don't think many others here have either.

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However, that doesn't mean that Yi is that far off of Durant.

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Of course not. There's no way to know. Even if they are completely even players, which we all seem to agree they aren't, Yi is the unknown. They may have equal value in reality, but it's such a big gamble to go for the unknown because of the possibility that Durant is the superior player.

You and I agree about Yi for the most part. But we disagree on the premise that someone who doesn't want any part of Yi is being hypocritical or prejudiced if they want Durant. Not wanting to take a risk on a huge unknown doen't make someone hypocritical when they still want a similar type of player who is touted as a better prospect. If Durant wasn't touted as highly as he is, then I would agree that some prejudice exists.

[AHF]

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For someone who is supposed to be "God's gift to Logic".. You're missing the boat today.

My contention is Prejudice on the basis of exposure.

NOT RACE.

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Where do you mention "exposure" when you say:

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In fact, I believe to bring it up is some type of stereotyping. In fact, let me say this... The only reason you compare the two is because they are both from China.

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When you talk about stereotyping against someone because they are from China it clearly implies stereotyping based on race.

If you were simply talking about lack of media exposure in the same way that you would do about a Division II player entering the NFL draft then my apologies but that could definitely use clarification.

[AHF]

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If you read that in context to mean that I believe that Yi has no upside rather than as saying that a hypothetical person could conclude Yi does not have upside based on something other than race then I don't know what to tell you. I can't imagine how you find this confusing.

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I'm just saying that your hypothetical person could not exist. No reasonable person, with any knowledge, could say what your hypothetical person is saying.

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How is it impossible that someone could read that Yi just got repeatedly abused by a scrub that couldn't last as long in the NBA as Mark Pope and then conlude that Yi lacked upside based on this? (this was originally written poorly so it has been editted)

[TroyMcClure]

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Just to clarify, AHF... I don't think any person, hypothetical or not, who has ever played the game or knows anything about it, could say honestly that Yi has no upside.

Unless they knew of him personally, this would be garbage. The only thing that could stop Yi, is Yi. Who knows what's going on in his head? I don't. I do know he is easily the 3rd best talent available.

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I don't think a reasonable person could look at the big picture and conclude that Yi has no upside. However, they could do it without being prejudiced based on race.

I do think someone could conclude something like "Anyone who gets abused by Wang Zhi Zhi has no upside. I have seen Wang Zhi Zhi and he sucks. Yi let Wang Zhi Zhi ring up 20 and 10 on you over and over on him in the CBA playoffs and therefore has no upside" without resorting to prejudice or stereotyping against Yi based on race.

I would disagree without that person and tell them to look at a bigger picture but I could see some hypothetical person doing that.

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totally off topic, but he did pretty good against Wang. Remember, Wang is older, thicker, probably a little smarter, and he plays center full time. I think it is a plus that he has experience guarding the post a little. I see him as a 4 / sometimes 3. He's not great down there but not afraid to do it. My friends shut me down more than the average guy at the park, too. They have been on the same team for years and Wang probably knows how to get him. Wang might abuse a lot of Sf's. Would they put up the numbers Yi did on Wang? I think not.

[thesheedera]

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My contention is Prejudice on the basis of exposure.

NOT RACE.

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Simply untrue. You accused me of bringing up and comparing Yi and Yao because they were both Chinese, when in fact I was only responding to the post where you brought Yao and compared him to Yi.

For some extra comedy, you then claimed that Yao's nationality had nothing to do with bringing him into this particular discussion, which we all know is monumental bullshit. He just happened to be another 7 foot + Chinese guy that came off the tip of your tongue, and could have just as easily been another underexposed player. Sure.

[Johnnybravo4]

I find it hilarious that people are trying to defend their position on Durant by merely stating that "He's more famous than Yi so he is justified to be taken 2nd."

Y'all are ignoring the real crux of the thread which is if Durant is not a PF/C and you could take him then why change now, if Yi has the exact same game. And even better he is taller, longer and maybe even more athletic.

[exodus]

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(this was originally written poorly so it has been editted)

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Sounds like he has you a little frazzled.

It must be frustrating trying to find logic in Diesels arguments. I gave that up long ago.

[TroyMcClure]

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If you read that in context to mean that I believe that Yi has no upside rather than as saying that a hypothetical person could conclude Yi does not have upside based on something other than race then I don't know what to tell you. I can't imagine how you find this confusing.

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I'm just saying that your hypothetical person could not exist. No reasonable person, with any knowledge, could say what your hypothetical person is saying.

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How is it impossible that someone could read that Yi just got repeatedly abused by a scrub that couldn't last as long in the NBA as Mark Pope and then conlude that Yi lacked upside based on this? (this was originally written poorly so it has been editted)

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It's not impossible, I just would not pay them any attention. Diesel's Stanley Roberts/Shaq analogy comes to mind. When you know someone better than most of the world, it takes those kinds of conclusions and throw them in the garbage.

[thesheedera]

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Poster: AHF

Subject: Re: WHO IS TALKING ABOUT RACE???

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For someone who is supposed to be "God's gift to Logic".. You're missing the boat today.

My contention is Prejudice on the basis of exposure.

NOT RACE.

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Where do you mention "exposure" when you say:

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In fact, I believe to bring it up is some type of stereotyping. In fact, let me say this... The only reason you compare the two is because they are both from China.

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When you talk about stereotyping against someone because they are from China it clearly implies stereotyping based on race.

If you were simply talking about lack of media exposure in the same way that you would do about a Division II player entering the NFL draft then my apologies but that could definitely use clarification.

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The above pretty much sums up this whole thread.

We might as well all just move on now. Diesel's twisted and turned more times than is healthy, and he's gonna need to rest for a while.

[thesheedera]

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"He's more famous than Yi so he is justified to be taken 2nd."

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No one's saying that!

We're saying that we feel comfortable because we've seen Durant with our own two eyes play a whole season that mattered - and he dominated.

That's material that can be used to gauge a player's value.

With Yi, all we have is second-hand knowledge.

It's not a popularity contest for crying out loud, it's the "known" verse the "unknown".

Famous??? WTF?