The Mindset of the Front Office????

[oiatlhawksfan]

This doesn't say that Conley is gonna develop like them, he might or might not, I don't believe in how other players develop, is the way a certain player is gonna develop. Everybody has a diffrent game, no one develop exactly the same.

[thesheedera]

Never said it did, just giving some perspective. His shooting numbers as a freshman were not as bad as a lot of people want to make them out to be.

[jerrywest]

Quote:

---

For a little perspective on conley's shooting "woes"...

Mike Conley Jr - Freshman - 30% from 3

Javaris, Freshman - 35%

Acie Law, Freshman - 22%

Jason Kidd, Freshman - 29%

Baron Davis, Freshman - 31%

TJ Ford, Freshman - 15%

Andre Miller, Freshman - 32%

(and 29% for his college career)

Allen Iverson, Freshman - 23%

Chauncey, Freshman - 35%

Deron Williams, Freshman - 35%

Steve Nash, Senior - 34%

Tony Parker, NBA career - 32%

Those are his competition for the #1 PG spot and the top PGs in the NBA right now. It is what it is.

---

Thanks for the post.

[frosgrim]

excellent detective work on finding the shooting numbers. My only reservation about MCJ comes from his age and not from his shooting. Shooting can develop in the NBA. Heck even Jordan had a horrible outside when he came into the league and it developed. Same with Kidd. Does anyone remember when he was called No J, for no jump shot? Point is a guy can develop a jump shot.

What is harder to develop, if can be at all, is a PG mentality.

MCJ seems to have the mentality, but a single year in college as a point has me somewhat concerned. The NBA is littered with PGs that came out early and never developed due to the problems with developing the necessary confidence needed to be a solid PG at the NBA level.

[thesheedera]

I'm primarily a college hoops fan. Following the Heels my whole life one of my favorite parts of the UNC system (and I'm sure every other system too) is the time of year when the offseason ahs just begun and the coach (first Dean, then Gut, then Doh, noy Roy) would sit down with his players to discuss their progress and what they need to work on in the summer.

It's amazing how frequently the focus of the summer is/was on improving your jumpshot for perimeter players. It's a lifelong work in progress. Some guys are gifted and just have it, period. Most have to work on it and improve it.

The common problems have always been that the form needs work, the player needs more confidence, or in the case of PGs, the young player's been forced into a high pressure role, and they have more to worry about than their jumpshot. Running a college team is no small task for a young guy brand new to a program.

Shooting percentages do improve. It's not like it's some magic formula. It requires hard work. He already has nice form. he shoots well from a spot-up position. He doesn't shoot as well off the dribble. He shoots well inside the arc, not as well outside it.

There's a difference between a guy who simply can't shoot, and a guy that's rough around the edges. I personally believe Conley's among the latter. In other words, it ain't broke, it just needs improvement and time in the gym.

[thesheedera]

Very valid concern there.

So do you gamble on the young one and give him time to adjust, or take the older on and maybe miss out on the better player in the long run?

It's a tough call.

Unfortunately Crit is in the same situation, and Law may not even be a PG.

[jerrywest]

Quote:

---

There's a difference between a guy who simply can't shoot, and a guy that's rough around the edges. I personally believe Conley's among the latter. In other words, it ain't broke, it just needs improvement and time in the gym.

---

Which players in the NBA would you say are broke?

[Wurider05]

That is probably on of the knocks against Conley. Like I said in another post I think that pg's need to be seasoned. This guy is just one year out of school. I asked had there been any pg's that came out as freshmen and did well in the league and that answers that I got were steve francis and stephon marbury, not exactly what I call pure pgs. The pg mentality comes with experience.

[thesheedera]

Speedy, Brevin and TJ Ford to stay within the bounds of the discussion.

[frosgrim]

Yes, its a real mess for the Hawks. They are in a catbird seat, yet, things aren't very clear. I guess, since both Critt and MCJ are both the same in terms of experience, I am more willing to take a bet on Critt at 11 and take Yi at 3, IF, the Yi hype turns out to be true. Its just very hard for me to think of passing on a 7' that has the athletic ability that Yi SEEMS to have at this point.

Second, if Soth's source is right, and BK is high on Yi, then I have to go with BK on this one. BK has gotten it right on the more athletic players he takes, he seems to get burned on the "skill" guys.

Another way to think about this is. If we are thinking of trading the 3rd pick, then it has to be for either Gasol, JO, or Aldridge. I can't think of anyone else that makes sense. That being the case, what if Yi grades out equally with those guys at the same age? I just have to think you stick with Yi at that point due to the injury issues with the three possible trades. Maybe we are all just over thinking this at this point in time.

[oiatlhawksfan]

LOL..why are yall drooling over this guy, when Hawks probably aren't gonna pick him.

Yi or Wright>>>Conley

[Wurider05]

I think that bot JO and Gasol are out of the picture right now. Memphis just got a new coach and I don't think that he would have signed with them if they were going to get rid of his best player and JO look to be going to LA.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

This doesn't say that Conley is gonna develop like them, he might or might not, I don't believe in how other players develop, is the way a certain player is gonna develop. Everybody has a diffrent game, no one develop exactly the same.

---

This from the guy who keeps talking about how good Wright will be if he gains 30 pounds or that Yi can play center if he gets stronger and develops a post game.

Or is that Busboy? I can't tell you two apart anymore.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

Yes, its a real mess for the Hawks. They are in a catbird seat, yet, things aren't very clear. I guess, since both Critt and MCJ are both the same in terms of experience, I am more willing to take a bet on Critt at 11 and take Yi at 3, IF, the Yi hype turns out to be true.

Its just very hard for me to think of passing on a 7' that has the athletic ability that Yi SEEMS to have at this point.

---

That's how I see it. Sometimes being forced into a change can be a good thing. We are being forced into having to unload a forward or two if we draft Yi. Frankly, we've needed to anyhow. Maybe we trade up.

Quote:

---

Another way to think about this is. If we are thinking of trading the 3rd pick, then it has to be for either Gasol, JO, or Aldridge. I can't think of anyone else that makes sense.

---

I feel Lue/Yi for Bynum/19 makes sense, but I'm not willing to pull the trigger yet. Let's see what Yi's got first.

W

[exodus]

Quote:

---

I believe that everybody and their mother knows that Conley is not worthy of the 3rd pick.

---

1. Your stance seems to put you in agreement with BK and you should know that makes you wrong. I strongly suggest a cold shower to bring you back to your senses.

2. Nobody really knows who the 3rd best prospect is. That will only become apparent in hindsight. There are several players who could be the 3rd best prospect and it seems everyone has different opinions on the matter.

A lot of people, including myself, underestimated how good Paul and Deron would be. If everyone had known for sure then they would have been the top two picks in 2005.

Nobody knows anything for certain. Yi could be the next Garnett or the next foreign bust.

3. You are making assumptions that but act like they are certainties.

Quote:

---

2a) the 2nd and 3rd Pg taken are as good as the first Pg taken

---

A lot of people, including the majority of posters here, disagree. This is not even remotely a certainty. Crit had almost twice as many turnovers per game as Conley. Bad sign.

Quote:

---

3b) a center (prospect) can be better had with the 3rd pick or a combination of trading from our numbers strength including MW, JC, and/or SW THAN the 11th pick

---

Again this is an assumption that might be incorrect. The reality is that the pool of available centers is small. The really good ones aren't going to be available for the 3rd + a random forward. Your Gasol and Bynum dreams are just that, dreams.

More than likely we are looking at 2nd tier centers who could be had for the 11th pick plus whatever. In other words including the 3rd pick instead of the 11th would be like trading Josh Smith in a deal instead of Josh Childress.

Quote:

---

The amount of talent or the potential of any center (prospect) had with the 3rd pick is significantly greater than any drop in Pging that MIGHT occur by the 11th pick.

---

If the amount of talent difference between Conley and Law/Crit is so small (according to you), and Conley is widely seen as going between 3-5, then by definition the talent gap between the 3rd and 11th picks isn't that great. If there was a big talent gap then Conley wouldn't be considered top 5.

There is certainly not much Yi love on the Celtics board

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php...082&start=0

Based on a little reading the Bucks fans seem to think Horford is the best player for them, if not the 3rd best prospect in the draft.

Memphis seems to be evenly split between Wright, Yi and Horford.

All the fans from these other teams seem to be in aggreement that we should/will take Conley. I didn't see anyone say that he would be a bad pick at 3.

As far as Crit and Law go, Crit was dismal in the tourney and averaged almost twice as many turnovers as Conley. Law had a breakout year this year but he still has awkward form on his jumper and his athleticism is still a question mark.

Conley is widely seen as the best pg in the draft. We need a pg and a center. There are no highly rated centers so i say take the best pg available at 3 and then look to trade the 11th in a deal for a center.

I am not interested in any of the forwards UNLESS the Hawks trade one (or more) of them before the draft.

[frosgrim]

I think we're on the same page Walt. You and I both have wanted Gasol for a while, but Yi looks (right now) as at least as good and maybe better; therefore, it just doesn't make sense to trade for him right now.

As for Bynum, I am not sure yet what he will develop into. Maybe I am little too skeptical on him, but young centers and young pgs are a crap shoot. I would rather have college juniors or seniors than the young guys. There are plenty of college guys that cap out as sophomores, and never do much. This is what I am afraid of with Conely, Bynum. For some reason Critt seems like a better prospect down the road, maybe because I see a little Doc Rivers in him than anything else.

I also agree that we have to trade a forward, but I have always thought that the collection of forwards were done in order to do a trade down the road. We are now at the end of that road. BK has a lot of ammunition now its time to see if he can shoot straight

[Diesel]

Yeah and Brevin Knight had about 2.8 more assists per game. The point is weight wise, Brevin got 3 lbs on him. Small guards who live by drive and dish and don't have good shooting percentages otherwise, don't fair so well...

Brevin wasn't even a Bad 3 pt and FT shooter like MCJ.. but his lack of size... made it difficult for him to live off the drive and dish.

[Diesel]

Shooting 69% from the line.. if he drives, nobody will be afraid of sending him to the line. He's fragile and he will get fouled.

Just look over the 170lbers who drive and dish and their injury history..

Brevin Knight.

Chris Paul.

TJ Ford.

Even Allen Iverson.

Speedy.

Conley doesn't shoot as well as any of these guys. (maybe Ford). He will get fouled.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

Brevin Knight.

Chris Paul.

TJ Ford.

Even Allen Iverson.

Speedy.

---

I could make a list of players in that weight class that counterproves this, this list proves nothing.

[Diesel]

IF anybody else had the third pick... Would Conley Jr. be talked about?... Not long. There's nobody saying that if we had the third pick, Conley is a lock!

If Seattle bought into Yi and took him 2nd... Do we still say MCJ is worthy of the third pick or do our thinking begin to change on that?

That's the catch. MCJ is the convenient, safe pick because we need a PG and he's available at 3. BUT being Convenient and Safe doesn't mean he's the best pick for us... Especially not when there are comparable PGs that will be available when we pick again.

We have a chance to get what could be a franchise changing player... and a PG and you want to pass it up for the safe, convenient pick and some player to be named later???