The Mindset of the Front Office????

[Diesel]

170 to 180 lbs that are drive and dish PGs..

Because you know we can go down throughout history over and over again...

Kevin Johnson.

Micheal Adams.

Tyus Edney

Rod Strickland..

Sleepy Floyd.

These players did play and these players did miss a wealth of games with injuries...

When you finish... All you will have is Tony Parker and John Stockton.. then I will ask, What dominating post player did these guys play with???

It's easy for a drive and dish PG to stay healthy when he has the best Post player in the game playing with him!! He gets fouled less.

But I look forward to your attempt!

[Guest Walter]

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1. Your stance seems to put you in agreement with BK and you should know that makes you wrong. I strongly suggest a cold shower to bring you back to your senses.

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Whatever.

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2. Nobody really knows who the 3rd best prospect is. That will only become apparent in hindsight.

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What kind of nonsense is this. You pick who you believe with all certainty is the best player. There is no absolute certainty here, but you d@mn sure don't pick the palyer you believe with all certainty is LESS talented just because you can't prove it until later.

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A lot of people, including myself, underestimated how good Paul and Deron would be. If everyone had known for sure then they would have been the top two picks in 2005.

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And it reads like your hell bent on making up for it by making an entirely new mistake. I'm sorry you blew it then, but why blow it now because you don't like the memory?

Consider if you KNEW you could get Deron O-R Paul with Indy's 11th pick in that draft. EVERBODY would have drafted MW for potential including me because I would have KNOWN we would also get an equal Pg prospect. No difference here. We KNOW we'll et Critt or Law if we pick for talent 1st.

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Nobody knows anything for certain. Yi could be the next Garnett or the next foreign bust.

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Certainly there are questions to be answered about Yi, Conley, Critt, Law, everyone, but you d@mn well know Conley is not the 3rd most talented player in the draft.

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3. You are making assumptions that but act like they are certainties.

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The primary assumption I make is that Conley is not the 3rd most talented player. Are you willing to say he is?

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2a) the 2nd and 3rd Pg taken are as good as the first Pg taken

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A lot of people, including the majority of posters here, disagree. This is not even remotely a certainty. Crit had almost twice as many turnovers per game as Conley. Bad sign.

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Crit was better in many areas himself and to have watched him on GT and Conley on OSU you saw why Critt had more TOs. It's called a 7'1" #1 overall draft pick that gets you assists like crazy (though no more than Crit) and Critt having to do it all for his young team, score, distribute, run the team.

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3b) a center (prospect) can be better had with the 3rd pick or a combination of trading from our numbers strength including MW, JC, and/or SW THAN the 11th pick

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Again this is an assumption that might be incorrect. The reality is that the pool of available centers is small. The really good ones aren't going to be available for the 3rd + a random forward. Your Gasol and Bynum dreams are just that, dreams.

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[Guest Walter]

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We have a chance to get what could be a franchise changing player... and a PG and you want to pass it up for the safe, convenient pick

and some player to be named later

???

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"We'll just get the BPA at 11" is an admission by the "pro-Conley at 3" crowd that we aren't getting the BPA at 3.

Again, if we had the 11th pick in 2005 and were ASSSURED of getting Paul or Deron like we are assured of getting Law or Crittenton, EVERY SINGLE HAWK FAN, even his biggest detractors, would have wanted MW with the 2nd pick.

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I suspect that everyone that is pining for Conley at 3 feels bad about their wanting MW like exodus said:

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A lot of people, including myself, underestimated how good Paul and Deron would be.

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Poor guy. I almost feel sorry for him. They don't want to make the same mistake, just an entirely new one revolving around a lesser Pg prospect (than Paul or Deron) and a better (than MW) forward prospect. Seems perfectly logical if the guilt over wanting MW is melting your brain.

W

[TexasPete]

Here's 3 more within 5 seconds off the top of my head:

Tiny Archibald

Norm Van Lier

Chris Paul

[Diesel]

Scott skiles wasn't drive and dish

Mark price proves my point.. He never played an 82 game seasons.

I'm not going to say Archibald missed a lot of games, but he had some very short seasons. He was no Stockton.

[Diesel]

Did you check Paul's Injury History??

142 out of 164 games.

Let's compare that to Deron Williams... 6'3 210...

160 out of 164 games.

[exodus]

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It's called a 7'1" #1 overall draft pick that gets you assists like crazy

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Conley played 300 more minutes this year than Oden, and even when Oden was playing he was one handed most of the time. He didn't get healthy until the end of the season. Before that he was much more of an impact player on defense than on offense. Oden had only 5 twenty point games all year.

The reason Conley's stock went up is because of how he played when oden was out.

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The likelihood of getting a legit star or better center prospect with the 3rd pick is significantly greater than with the 11th pick. It's PROBABILITY.

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No it isn't. We aren't getting a star center even with the 3rd pick. You say yourself that we lack talent. Therefore in the unlikely event that a star center gets traded he will undoubtedly get traded to a team that has more talent to offer than we do.

You can't buy a $1 million house if you make $50,000/yr with minimal assets. Star centers are out of our price range.

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You pick who you believe with all certainty is the best player. There is no absolute certainty here

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And if there is no certainty you take the player who fills a need instead of taking the 25th tweener forward.

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It's called tourney hype. Look up "Marvin Williams" to see the meaning of it.

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Did Marvin average 18 ppg shooting 50% during the last 4 games of the tournament?

*crickets*

[thesheedera]

So you wouldn't want Chris Paul, AI or Mark Price at #3 because of their size?

What's your point here?

For some small guys injuries are a problem. For some big guys injuries are a problem too!!!!

We could make a similar list of 7'0" players who have missed time, what would that prove?

[Packfill]

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IF anybody else had the third pick... Would Conley Jr. be talked about?... Not long. There's nobody saying that if we had the third pick, Conley is a lock!

If Seattle bought into Yi and took him 2nd... Do we still say MCJ is worthy of the third pick or do our thinking begin to change on that?

That's the catch. MCJ is the convenient, safe pick because we need a PG and he's available at 3. BUT being Convenient and Safe doesn't mean he's the best pick for us... Especially not when there are comparable PGs that will be available when we pick again.

We have a chance to get what could be a franchise changing player... and a PG and you want to pass it up for the safe, convenient pick and some player to be named later???

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Wow have we come full circle.

This is the same argument people used when suggesting Marvin Williams was a better draft pick then Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

[Diesel]

First off, Conley Jr. is in no way in the same class as Paul or Williams. The only similarity is that they are all PGs... That's the end of the comparison.

2nd. When we picked Marvin we didn't have a 2nd pick in the lottery whereby we could have gotten Paul or Deron.

3rd. The argument for Picking Marvin at the time was "IN --- Years, he's going to be the next..." Marvin couldn't live up to his hype the same way that Conley Jr. can't live up to his hype. Conley Jr.'s hype is based on nothing more than we need a PG. Period. He's not that good. He shoots 69% from the line and 30% from three... and we're the worst shooting scoring team in the game. He's not the right guy for us. We're a talent starved team and we have a chance to get real talent. And you guys are pushing for safe, convenient.

[thesheedera]

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First off, Conley Jr. is in no way in the same class as Paul or Williams. The only similarity is that they are all PGs... That's the end of the comparison.

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And that's where the pro and anti Conley camps do not and will not ever agree on this thing. I think that up to this point in his career Conley is absolutely in the same class as those guys, and I see no reason why he has no chance of continuing to develop into a player of their caliber.

He was among the best coming into college, and he showed as a freshman that he was the best PG in the country.

[Diesel]

Neither Paul nor Williams played with a dominant Big man. Both Paul and Williams were leaders for their teams. Without Paul and Williams, their respective teams were nothing.

Conley does not fit in these ranks. Moreover, Conley is not a good shooter. Nobody wants to compare Conley's 30% from 3 as a freshman with Paul's 46.5% from three as a freshman... Wonder why?

Deron is 6'3" 210. Conley Jr. is 6'1" 170. Do you know why nobody is comparing these two?? It's because Deron can take the beating and get up and come back. Deron was known as a Physical defender in college. He played legendary defense. He shut down Francis Garcia and Salim Stoudamire and Chris Paul with his tenacious defense. Who has Conley Jr. Shut down? With a 7'0 defensive shot blocking machine, Conley Jr. should have been able to play loose and shut down a whole lot of people. Did he? No.

I doubt that he does, But I'm hoping that Conley Jr. does some workouts with these other prospects. I know he won't do it because I know and his camp knows that all he can do is fall.

[thesheedera]

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Without Paul and Williams, their respective teams were nothing.

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Easy now, Deron's entire starting 5 all went on to the NBA, that team was extremely talented. They were top 5 going into the season.

Wake didn't win jack squat and were also a very talented college team with less NBA talent, but a ton of college talent, ranked 2nd going into the season.

Gray, Williams, Downey, Levy, Visser, that Danielius dude, Strickland...they were loaded and deep.

You can make that argument for Law, but not for Deron or Paul. Deron's team went the distance, Paul's team underachieved badly, and part of that was due to Paul's LACK of leadership.

The schism created by his relationship with Prosser (accused of showing favortism to Paul on team related matters), Paul's NBA aspirations affecting his team play, and the crotch shot to Hodge unravelled what was supposed to be a championship level team. They came into the season ranked #2, were strong all year, and then crumbled down the stretch thanks to Paul's strong leadership.

But you love revising history to meet your objectives, don't ya?

You can't discredit a player for playing on extremely talented teams. Dominant big man or not, all of these guys played on championship level teams with championship level talent.

Deron and Conley got their teams to the last game of the season. Paul's team sputtered out like an old truck.

[mrhonline]

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But you love revising history to meet your objectives, don't ya?

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[Packfill]

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First off, Conley Jr. is in no way in the same class as Paul or Williams. The only similarity is that they are all PGs... That's the end of the comparison.

2nd. When we picked Marvin we didn't have a 2nd pick in the lottery whereby we could have gotten Paul or Deron.

3rd. The argument for Picking Marvin at the time was "IN --- Years, he's going to be the next..." Marvin couldn't live up to his hype the same way that Conley Jr. can't live up to his hype. Conley Jr.'s hype is based on nothing more than we need a PG. Period. He's not that good. He shoots 69% from the line and 30% from three... and we're the worst shooting scoring team in the game. He's not the right guy for us. We're a talent starved team and we have a chance to get real talent. And you guys are pushing for safe, convenient.

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So Conley is the wrong choice because he won't live up to the "hype" but Yi or Wright are the right choice because they will live up to the "hype"?

Neither Yi nor Wright (a) are centers or (b) have developed back-to-the-basket games so it is not like they add anything to what the Hawks are missing (i.e., a center and a point guard).

The only way the Hawks will ever find out if Smoove, Marvin, Chill and Sheldon are any good is if they get a decent coach and a point guard to get them the ball.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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So Conley is the wrong choice because he won't live up to the "hype" but Yi or Wright are the right choice because they will live up to the "hype"?

Neither Yi nor Wright (a) are centers or (b) have developed back-to-the-basket games so it is not like they add anything to what the Hawks are missing (i.e., a center and a point guard).

The only way the Hawks will ever find out if Smoove, Marvin, Chill and Sheldon are any good is if they get a decent coach and a point guard to get them the ball.

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That's not how I look at it.

Although Conley doesn't have nearly as much upside as Chris Paul, Deron Williams, or the top PGs in next year's draft, or arguably even Javaris Crittenton, that's not why I don't want to take him at 3.

It's nothing against Conley, it's about who we don't want to be left with at #11.

Spencer Hawes is a waste of a draft pick because he won't be better than Pachulia.

And any other SF we get is a waste because we have too many.

That's why we have to take a PG later.

You may think Yi and Wright are repetitive but if we have to be repetitive I'd rather take another POWER FORWARD (with all-star potential mind you) than to take another SMALL FORWARD or take another Zaza Pachulia.

[Diesel]

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So Conley is the wrong choice because he won't live up to the "hype" but Yi or Wright are the right choice because they will live up to the "hype"?

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Nope. I didn't say that. Conley is the wrong choice because we can get comparable PG later in the draft with our second pick. PERIOD.

But of Wright or Yi or a trade for Gasol or a trade for Aldrich Jack or just about anything else we decide to do with the 3rd pick, we cannot get the same at 11.

[AtLaS]

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It's easy for a drive and dish PG to stay healthy when he has the best Post player in the game playing with him!! He gets fouled less.

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LMAO. That's possibly the biggest load of bull I've ever seen someone post. I guess the same argument could be made for Speedy when he was on SA?

And you've already killed your own argument by mentioning Kevin Johnson, who played with Barkley.

[Diesel]

I say that Both Speedy and KJ ran into less bigs trying to foul them playing with those dominate bigs than they would have if they didn't play with dominate bigs. Why don't you watch a basketball game. See how often Duncan's man leave Duncan when Parker or Ginobilli is on the drive.

[TexasPete]

All I know is that we have passed on good guards in two of the last 3 drafts and we have had the crap kicked out of us. In both cases the consensus best guards in the draft all went on and had huge impacts while our guys are projects yet to fulfill anything.

And we want to repeat the process by passing on the best guard again?

For the record, Conley is the best guard in this draft and PTL wants him and the Grizzlies will take him at 4 if we let him go. If Law is so much better why will the Grizzlies not take him?

The team that picks a PG right behind us always gets the best player. But, because of highlights on youtube some want to repeat the misery of the past.

The Boston fans know basketball and they don't want Yi. They are afraid of Yi because they haven't seen anything but clips...they get it. Thats why ATL sports fans take so much crap, there is a naivete here that is really pathetic.

At least wait on the workouts before you decide anything.