You guys actually want Law over Conley

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I've been reading a lot of these posts over my cellphone while at work. I don't have a lot of time to use the computer to post, so I just follow the site on my cell.

When I see everything that is posted about Conley, and see how some of you guys compare him to current NBA PGs, I think that some of you actually may want Law instead.

Question 1: How many times have people actually seen Law play?

This is big in my opinion. I don't think a lot of you have watched Acie more than twice. Some of you keep acting like Conley is head and shoulders above Law. That's just not the case. When these guys start working out, Law ( and Critt's ) stock will rise, while Conley's will either stay the same or even drop. The same things being said about not watching Yi play, should be applied to Law. Those of you who haven't watched Law play, or haven't seen Law at his best, really don't know what kind of player he can be for the Hawks.

Why do I say that? It's because of question #2 . .

Question 2: Who has the potential to be the better all-around offensive player?

And when I say that, I'm not just talking about shooting. I'm talking about shooting and playmaking ability. When you look at both of these guys, I say to myself . . "there isn't a single thing that Conley does, that Acie Law can't. But there is definitely one thing that Law does, that Conley can't." And that is SHOOT the basketball.

Playmaking wise, Law didn't have a dominant low post option to get the ball to, nor did he have a shooter like a Ron Lewis, to toss the ball out to on the perimeter. And Law SITLL averaged 5 assists a game.

Shooting wise, this isn't even a debate.

I saw where Diesel posted Conley's FT% and 3FG% the other day. I knew Conley was a poor shooter from 3, but I didn't realize that he was a sub 70% FT shoooter. When you talk about the top 20 FT shooting PGs, ALL of them shoot over 80% FT. Even Jason Kidd, a notoriously poor shooter from the field, shot 77% FT last year.

I cite this because for the type of game that Conley is going to have to play on the NBA level to get his points, ( slashing PG who gets to the rim, and might draw some fouls ) he's going to have to be able to get his points from the FT line.

And if you think that guys can just get to the NBA, and become good shooters or even increase his FT shooting, think again. We see big guys who are perennial poor FT shooters, stay poor FT shooters. The same goes for PGs who struggle shooting over 75% FTs. The prime example is Jamal Tinsley, who is a career 71% FT shooter. Throughout his career, he's never shot over 74% FT. Couple that with his poor shooting from the field, and you have a PG that will never be more than just a decent PG.

But the thing that should concern people the most about Conley, is his 30% 3FG. That should scare the hell out of people? Why? Because the college 3 pointer is essentially a MID-RANGE shot in the NBA. That's a shot that you MUST hit 40% - 50% of the time on the pro level, especially when open.

Speedy Claxton shot 38% from 3 in his senior year at Hofstra. On the NBA level, he has virtually no three point range, and is shaky at best from the mid-level ( 18 - 21 feet ).

People bring up Conley's 50% + shooting from the field, which is definitely great on the college level. But how does that translate to the pro game, when you're not comfortable shooting a mid-range NBA jumper, and your opportunities to get to the rim will be limited?

To me, Conley shows that he can be a great playmaker at times. But if he's not making plays for people, he could actually become a HUGE liability for us.

So in essence, Conley SCREAMS to me . . Rajon Rondo.

Same EXACT type of player.

- great on the ball defender

- good to great playmaker ( keep in mind that Rondo didn't have a great center to pass the ball to )

- suspect jumpshot

- great penetrator

- not so great FT shooter

Rondo's numbers in his 1st year in the NBA?

college 48% FG . . pro 42% FG

college 57% FT . . pro 64% FT

college 27% 3FG . . pro 21% 3FG

You guys expecting Conley to just magically improve his offensive output on the pro level, may be in for a very rude awakening.

If Acie Law moves into the top 10 after his workouts, and the Hawks need a PG, they might have to consider taking Law as high as #3. If you take a PG that high, Law is the way to go, because of his upside as an offensive player.

Conley doesn't have Law's upside in that area.

10 seconds left . . Hawks ball . . down by 1. Who would you rather have running the point? Law or Conley?

Even if the ball is going to JJ, who do you want on the floor during that time?

[mrhonline]

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10 seconds left . . Hawks ball . . down by 1. Who would you rather have running the point? Law or Conley?

Even if the ball is going to JJ, who do you want on the floor during that time?

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Without a doubt, Tyronn Lue. But more directly, I would like to point out that Celtics' fans were very pleased with Rajon Rondo as their point guard last season, and Conley is considered at least as good of a perimeter shooter as Rondo.

[HAWKS1986]

I agree with your assessment. Down by 1 with seconds left, and JJ is double-teamed and who would rather have taking a last second shot-- Acie or Conley...

Being able to come through in those moments could determine if the Hawks make the playoffs or not.

I wouldn't be upset if the Hawks pick up Acie at #3.. Conley may have the quickness advantage, but the 'leadership' intangibles includes being able to make shots under pressure.. and Acie has more experience than Conley in that area..

..And I agree, your skills aren't going to get better once you get to the NBA..either you got or you don't got 'it'..

In college, you have an opportunity to develop, but once you throw your name into the draft, that player must be ready...

Boris Diaw wasn't ready. DerMarr Johnson wasn't ready. Josh Childress wasn't ready.. They got attributes, but lack leadership skills ...and if you are Top 10 pick, you must have that..

[coachx]

Law will be a young version Sam Cassell.

Conley is more of Tony Parker.

They will both be good. I am not sure the difference between them is too far apart.

Law is definatly the superior shooter but Conley is the superior defender.

If Law can man up Conley defensively in workouts he COULD leap frog Conley in mock drafts.

A JJ & Law back court would be fun to watch offensivly.

10 seconds left and the opponent has the ball. Who do you want defensively pressuring their PG, Conley or Law ?

If we pass on Coley at #3 and Law is not there at #11 we made a mistake. If we pass on Conley at #3 and Law is still there at #11 we made a good move. This isour last chance at drafting a young PG, as long as weget one of them I am fine.

[mrhonline]

Guys, I'd be perfectly happy with Law at #11, but it's a HUGE stretch to bump him to #3. He's not got the all-important "upside" that Conley has, and the "better leader" battle is a lot closer than this thread is implying.

If it weren't for Conley, the Buckeyes would have exited a lot sooner from the tourney.

[thesheedera]

Ever care to check and see what law shot from 3 point land as a freshman in college?

Looks to me like Conley already has a head start on him.

[gsuteke]

and you have to INSIST that if they want to be considered at either #3 or #11 they will work out head to head against one another.

[coachx]

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I agree with your assessment. Down by 1 with seconds left, and JJ is double-teamed and who would rather have taking a last second shot-- Acie or Conley...

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Acie Law's & Johnson's defenders would never be able to leave them to go double team other players, it would have to be a big to come out and double leaving the paint open for a cutter.

If a guard did double every one would have to scramble and rotate to pick up the open man [ this would wear the oppoents down to where they would not have much gas offensively.

This would make the oppositions guards stick with their man and force the opponent's bigs to double team our guards making life easier on Marvin, Smoove, Za Za, (Yi or Hoford), to get rebounds and buckets in the paint

Acie has his pros.......but will he get torched on the defensive end. That is what I want to see in workouts from him...his man on man defensive ability.

[coachx]

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Ever care to check and see what law shot from 3 point land as a freshman in college?

Looks to me like Conley already has a head start on him.

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The ability to improve is not a guarantee !

Perfect example Dominic James

James entered his sophmore year as the #1 PG in mock drafts. He regressed his sophmore year and is now on the 2nd round bubble.

We know Law has the ability to improve. He improved every year in college.

If Conley were to go back to OSU life would be harder on him. He would then be the focus of the defense. The focus would no longer be on Oden allowing Conley to have all those open shots.

In other words he would no what Law felt like every game where the oppositions game plan was focused on the PG rather then the center.

That is why Law seems like a "safe" pick. He has been able to excel while the opposiotions' main focus is stop him (which the opposition could never do). Conley has never expierenced this since he has had Oden as a teamate his entire career.

[thesheedera]

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The ability to improve is not a guarantee !

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Of course not, but assuming a 19 year old PG has hit his ceiling would be ridiculous.

[jerrywest]

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"there isn't a single thing that Conley does, that Acie Law can't.

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Great post. Thanks. I agree with everything except this. Law can't defend like Conley. With 5 seconds left who would you want to see defend Daren Williams in the final?

[coachx]

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The ability to improve is not a guarantee !

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Of course not, but assuming a 19 year old PG has hit his ceiling would be ridiculous.

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There is no way to tell. The Oden factor has to be accounted for though. You must at least give it thought. Ask any PG how much a easier their job is with a dominant center is there to bail you out offensivly and defensivly.

Dominic James is a small, 6'0'', PG with explosive atheltic ability at Marquett. He did great as a freshman and entered the season as the #1 PG. (Sound like Conley so far ?)He was only 19 too, he no longer took people by suprise his sophmore year. Teams game planned to stop him and give him trouble and it affected his play.

This same scenerio would happen to Conley & Crtitt their sophmore seasons. There is no way to know how they would react but the sophmore jinx is very, very, real due to these types of variables.

[BusBoyIsBack]

When I thought we weren't going to have a top 3 pick there were a whole lot of Law vs Conley threads for what we thought was going to be our only pick.

I remember saying, it's not about Law vs Conley vs JC

It's about getting one of those guys PERIOD which we desperately need.

Well now that we have the 3rd pick, it's not about Law vs Conley vs JC, it's about getting a potential franchise player ALONG with one of those guys.

And the only way we can do that is if we take the potential franchise player 3rd and the PG 11th.

There is no other way

[jerrywest]

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The ability to improve is not a guarantee !

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Of course not, but assuming a 19 year old PG has hit his ceiling would be ridiculous.

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There is no way to tell. The Oden factor has to be accounted for though. You must at least give it thought. Ask any PG how much a easier their job is with a dominant center is there to bail you out offensivly and defensivly.

Dominic James is a small, 6'0'', PG with explosive atheltic ability at Marquett. He did great as a freshman and entered the season as the #1 PG. (Sound like Conley so far ?)He was only 19 too, he no longer took people by suprise his sophmore year. Teams game planned to stop him and give him trouble and it affected his play.

This same scenerio would happen to Conley & Crtitt their sophmore seasons. There is no way to know how they would react but the sophmore jinx is very, very, real due to these types of variables.

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Another great point.

[mrhonline]

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When I thought we weren't going to have a top 3 pick there were a whole lot of Law vs Conley threads for what we thought was going to be our only pick.

I remember saying, it's not about Law vs Conley vs JC

It's about getting one of those guys PERIOD which we desperately need.

Well now that we have the 3rd pick, it's not about Law vs Conley vs JC, it's about getting a potential franchise player ALONG with one of those guys.

And the only way we can do that is if we take the potential franchise player 3rd and the PG 11th.

There is no other way

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Busboy, I have to give you credit for being consistent.

[thesheedera]

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There is no way to tell.

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Works both ways of course.

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The Oden factor has to be accounted for though. You must at least give it thought.

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And I have. I was pretty much sold on Conley while watching him run the Buckeyes against my beloved Heels early in the season. He looked like he was in complete control and he looked like a vet. Oden didn't play that game yet it was one of the most exciting regular season games I've ever watched. My friends and I were in awe at the level of talent that these two extremely young teams displayed, and at the pace Ohio State pushed.

While Lewis was completely on fire it was the first time I got to see Conley, and I was convinced that he was an elite player in his own right. Before that game I also assumed he was just a sidekick. OSU was two different teams this year, a fast paced offensive juggernaut without Oden (both when injured and when healthy but on the bench) and a half court grinder with Oden. Conley led both teams with nearly flawless efficiency.

The other times I watched him during the season the same thing kept occurring to me: Conley's his own man.

In the tournament it was obvious to anyone that watched that he was legit in his own right.

I agree that NBA 3 point range is a big question mark for Conley, and that his body needs some armor to take an NBA pounding, but I watched Felton and Paul as closely as I have ever watched college guards, and Conley looked just as good to me as those guys.

Will he be as good or better than them? I'm not claiming to know that. But I would be thrilled to see the Hawks grab him.

[mrhonline]

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I agree that NBA 3 point range is a big question mark for Conley

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It's apparently a question mark for Yi as well, FWIW.

[thesheedera]

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When I thought we weren't going to have a top 3 pick there were a whole lot of Law vs Conley threads for what we thought was going to be our only pick.

I remember saying, it's not about Law vs Conley vs JC

It's about getting one of those guys PERIOD which we desperately need.

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I admit that I was in that camp too, but I wasn't too focused on the #3 pick because our odds of not getting it were so high.

Yi-Crit is feeling good to me at the moment. But then again so is Conley-Hawes.

My biggest nightmare is still coming away from this draft without one of those three PG prospects.

[coachx]

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My biggest nightmare is still coming away from this draft without one of those three PG prospects.

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Agree 1000000000000%

For the record I would take Conley over Law. However, If #3 can be used to get a big man (my mind is even open to YI though I am not on his band wagon I would have to hear about his workouts / or Hoford) and Law can be had at #11 I am all for it.

If we go that rout and Law is not there at #11 I would be totaly bummed out.

Possibility:

BK will take Conley #3 with a trade in place for a all star big. If Law or Critt, depending on who he likes (I like Law), are there at #11 he moves the #3 for a proven veteran big.

If the other PG he likes is gone at #11 we keep Conley and get what is left at #11.

[Nicholasp27]

if we draft conley/law at #3, that will all but guarantee that the other is gone at 11