This is getting Ridiculous

[Vol4ever]

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I don't think we will be getting a big man with either the 3rd or 11th pick via a trade. There simply aren't many good ones in the league. When Zaza Pachulia is one of the best 10 centers in the NBA, there is an extreme lack of talent at that position.

The best centers in the NBA outside of Yao Ming and a declining Shaq are the 6'10" Dwight Howard, 6'10" Amare Stoudemire, and the 6'10" Chris Bosh.

The only centers whose names will be floated on the trading blocks this offseason will be guys you simply don't trade a lottery pick for. Guys like Brendan Haywood, Johan Petro, Nazr Mohammed......etc.

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I agree KB, you take a look at the NBA rosters and there are very few real NBA centers and teams are not going to trade them. I'm starting to think that maybe Horford should be the pick at 3 and maybe law will be there at 11.

[exodus]

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coachx/scout said we should trade marvin/#11 to move up to draft conley with horford

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LOL you can tell how much i pay attention to trade proposals. Horrible deal.

[Packfill]

I still think Conley is the best pure passer and distributor of the point guards in the draft and that is why I value him more than Law and Critt. I also believe, fairly or unfairly, that Critt is a project that will take a few years to work out the kinks ala Chancey Billups. The Hawks do not have that long to wait.

[AtLaS]

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They aren't SUPPOSED to measure skills. They measure athleticism. And one of the reasons people talked about drafting Crit was his perceived athleticism.

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Exactly, ONE of the reasons. And his athleticism isn't even that bad, he still showed a 38 inch vert. and benched 11 reps, which is great for a freshman PG. His perceived potential is also the fact that he has size for his position (not JUST his athletic ability), has great court vision and also great scoring skills. Most 6'3 and up successful PGs are not speed freaks.. The ones who are shorter need the speed much more.

To be more specific, speed doesn't really tell much anyway, quickness does. For a PG, quickness and ball handling is much more important than top end speed.

[exodus]

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speed doesn't really tell much anyway, quickness does

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And the sprint measures quickness. Any sprinter will tell you how important a quick start is. It is only a 3 second race, no a 200 yard race.

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has great court vision and also great scoring skills.

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His court vision was a little cloudy against tough competition, and his scoring took a dive as well.

[exodus]

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6'10" Dwight Howard, 6'10" Amare Stoudemire, and the 6'10" Chris Bosh.

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Howard is 6'11" and has the same standing reach as Oden.

Amare has a 9'1" standing reach, a 37" vertical and plays on a fast break team.

This past season Rasho was Toronto's starting center. The previous season Bosh was the starting center and they gave up 104 ppg and their opponents shot 49%.

[AtLaS]

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And the sprint measures quickness.

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Don't be rediculous, I'm not talking about a jumpstart on a 3/4 court sprint. I'm talking quickness, which is often one step in order to get past someone. I beat people off the dribble that are faster than me (top end) constantly, because I have a quick first step. Also, there is no deception in a 3/4 court sprint, you can often use deception to get past defenders with a quick step.

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His court vision was a little cloudy against tough competition, and his scoring took a dive as well.

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He still had 8 points, 5 rbs and 6 assists, but 4 turnovers and a bad FG%. But he also had some great games throughout the year and showed what he was capable of.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Howard is 6'11" and has the same standing reach as Oden.

Amare has a 9'1" standing reach, a 37" vertical and plays on a fast break team.

This past season Rasho was Toronto's starting center. The previous season Bosh was the starting center and they gave up 104 ppg and their opponents shot 49%.

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How is Howard 6'11 when he was a mere 6'9 w/o shoes at the combine?

Al Horford has a 35.5" vertical which is pretty dang good and he is significantly stronger than all three of those guys coming into the league.

Noah has them all beat in height and can match anyone of their verticals.

Makes no sense to pass on one of those two guys to be our future C because WE CAN'T GET ANYTHING BETTER.

If there is a C worth getting that team won't trade him.

And it's not like we could grab one next year either.

We either wait 2 years to grab a C OR by then Horford or Noah could establish themselves. I think I'll take my chances with one of the Gator boys.

[AtLaS]

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Makes no sense to pass on one of those two guys to be our future C because WE CAN'T GET ANYTHING BETTER.

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I'm pretty sure Camby can be had for the #11 + expirings and maybe Childress or Zaza. Denver is definitely looking to avoid luxury tax and he is the leading candidate to go in a trade. His contract isn't bad and I would definitely take him for the next 3 years.

[exodus]

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How is Howard 6'11 when he was a mere 6'9 w/o shoes at the combine?

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He grew an inch afterwards, just as Luol Deng did.

And if you double check his combine measurements you will see his standing reach is 9'3.5" if i remember right.

What's Noahs standing reach again?

*crickets*

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Al Horford has a 35.5" vertical which is pretty dang good and he is significantly stronger than all three of those guys coming into the league.

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Howard had a 35" vertical, Amare 37.

Try again.

[exodus]

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But he also had some great games throughout the year

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Try listing his great games against good teams.

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because I have a quick first step

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They don't have a one step test at the combine. Sorry.

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you can often use deception to get past defenders with a quick step.

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That falls under the skill dept and has no relevance to the combine.

[beav]

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I know the Center postions is not as strong as it used to be.But it's not weak enough that Zaza is in the top 10 lol

Here's about 20 guys that are better than Zaza.

((not in any kind of order))

AMARE

YAO

Shaq

Howard

Wallace

Okur

Curry

camby

Oden

Dalendert

Biendres

Morning

Big Z

Brad Miller

Mags

Kaman

Nenad Krstic

J-Oneal

Okafor

Bosh

Chandler

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Definitely agree for the most part but:

Magloire is a shadow of his former self and is only suited at being a vets minimum 2nd-3rd stringer... Mourning is close to done for all practical purposes, he is very effective for about 12-15 minutes a game defensively and that's it. Kaman stunk last year after signing that massive contract and I'm not sure that Zaza isn't just about as good even without the contract. Jermaine is not a center(regardless of his size etc), he hates playing center which is why Foster always starts.

[Catapult]

Gotta keep the flag up for small nations

Marty A is not a russian, but lithuanian.

[exodus]

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Gotta keep the flag up for small nations

Marty A is not a russian, but lithuanian.

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Were americans so you should understand you guys are all the same to us.

j/k

What is up with Marty anyway? I heard he got beat up pretty badly by one of his teamates.

[pimp]

i agree with u, except about JO.

He might not like playing C, but he played there all year long in 07.

Al harrington Started at pf, then when he was traded,

Troy Murphy was the starting pf.

[AHF]

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i agree with u, except about JO.

He might not like playing C, but he played there all year long in 07.

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What position do you think Foster was playing? He started the majority of games he wasn't injured.

Foster Starts Last Season

[atlien110]

everyone know's the draft measurements mean jack squat. based on exodus' premise, durant's stock should fall to the bottom of the 1st round considering he came out as the worst rated athlete in orlando.

critt has some weaknesses but i strongly disagree that athleticsm is one of them.

[exodus]

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critt has some weaknesses but i strongly disagree that athleticsm is one of them.

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You are missing the point.

Crit was already the 3rd rated pg in the draft. The reason he was seen as being close to law isn't because of the skills he showed during the season but because of his perceived "upside". His upside doesn't look as high now as it did before the combine. Meanwhile Law and Conley helped their cause.

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durant's stock should fall to the bottom of the 1st round considering he came out as the worst rated athlete in orlando.

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Durant stock, unlike Crits, is based not on potential but on production. And his 9'2" standing reach is higher than anyone on our roster.

[atlien110]

so after a lackluster showing in the orlando workouts, critt no longer has "upside"??? i think you're starting to confuse yourself.

durant is different because he produced? and critt did not?

what you talkin bout willis?

monta ellis had the worst workout two years ago, but golden state obviously still saw the "upside" in him.

go read a great article about the importance or lack thereof of nba pre draft workouts on draftexpress. they mean diddly. critt still has the major upside, regardless of how fast he ran some stupid 3/4 court sprint.

the question is can they play basketball. for all of conley's strengths in the workout you mentioned you conveniently left out his deficiencies such as being able to hit a 16 ft jump shot and that's with nobody in his face,

[AtLaS]

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Try listing his great games against good teams.

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I don't feel like looking it up right now, but I'll take your word if he screwed up in big games.

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They don't have a one step test at the combine. Sorry.

That falls under the skill dept and has no relevance to the combine.

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Which is why I think you're putting way too much stock into the measurements. But whatever..