More thoughts on Yi

[Frenzy]

heres the box score of the china vs usa game last summer

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interesting

[Frenzy]

the other usa vs. china game

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[exodus]

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A-N-D whether that difference I-F it is deemed "for" Conley is greater than the difference in talent between the 3rd pick and the 11th pick.

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No. If you are making that assumption then you are completely disregarding positions. YOu got the first part right but your second part is wrong.

It is a given that the pg is a position of need and it is the only one we can fill through the draft. So no matter what the talent gap between the 3 and 11th pick is it doesn't really matter if the guy picked at 3 isn't significantly better than what we have now.

If we draft a forward at 3 who turns out to be a bench role player because he couldn't beat out Smith or Marvin and we pass up on a guy who is significantly better than Law or Crit then we lose out in the end even if the guy we pick at 11 is a complete bust.

In the NBA it isn't about quantity it is about quality. Good role players aren't hard to get. YOu are thinking in terms of a math equation instead of reality.

Your don't understand the importance of the gap in talent between Conley and Law/Crit. The gap between them is MORE IMPORTANT than the gap between the non-pgs between 3 and 11 because the non-pgs won't have the impact on the roster that the pgs will. Reasons being is that our forwards are much better than our pgs and that pg is the more important position.

I will assign random numbers to make it easier for you with numbers between 1 and 10, 10 being higher. Lets say the gap between Conley and Law/Crit is a 3. Lets say the talent gap between the non-pgs avaiable at 3 and 11 is a 5. The gap between the pgs is still more important because the pgs we have are garbage and it is a more important position.

I am still not sure what to make of Yi. it is clear that he won't be an interior presence for awhile so the question is how well can he do at the 3. It is hard to tell because he doesn't play there. Maybe after watching some more games i will have a better feel but i have yet to see him get the ball on the perimeter and score by driving to the basket or creating a jumper off the dribble. And some of his open jumpers have missed by a mile. That could be because his shot isn't that great or it could be just that he doesn't take them often enough to get into a groove.

And of course there is no way for me to know whether he can guard the 3 spot. I BELIEVE he can but that is just an educated guess.

I have been trying to evaluate his game honestly without regard to whether or not we should pick him. I was biased against him from the start but like i said i wanted to be open minded in my evaluation of him. obviously i have a more favorable view about him now and would certainly take him over Horford/Wright. But that doesn't mean i am sold that he should be the pick.

Basically they are only two ways you can justify picking Yi.

1) you think he will be a big upgrade over what we have now, which is certainly a possibility

2) you think the gap between Conley and Crit/Law is marginal

Of course it was inevitable that you would come into the thread and immediately try to start an argument about it rather than actually discussing a player. Now that you have found something else to obsess on i am sure we will hear about it a million times between now and the draft.

[Guest Walter]

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the other usa vs. china game

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30/9. The other game pretty close to as impressive statistically. This is a kid doing this against our best. WHO on earth at 3 could be remotely as talented? Is this even a race or is Yi so far ahead he can coast? Does the draft now really start at 4?

W

[exodus]

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the other usa vs. china game

link

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30/9. The other game pretty close to as impressive statistically. This is a kid doing this against our best. WHO on earth at 3 could be remotely as talented? Is this even a race or is Yi so far ahead he can coast? Does the draft now really start at 4?

W

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The 30 was how many minutes he played. Go to bed. We can argue tomorrow.

[Guest Walter]

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If we draft a forward at 3 who turns out to be a bench role player because he couldn't beat out Smith or Marvin

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What draft ARE you talking about here? If we draft the most talented player here (Yi) he will EASILY be more talented than MW and IMO likely more talented than JS as well.

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and we pass up on a guy who is significantly better than Law or Crit

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Again, what draft are you talking about? Conley is NOT significantly better than Law or Critt. He's a hyped player who is falling (even according to you) because he cannot live up to the hype.

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then we lose out in the end even if the guy we pick at 11 is a complete bust.

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You are correct, if Yi turns out to be a "role player" and Conley a superstar significantly better than Crittenton AND Law...we lose out. WHO THE [censored] SEES THIS HAPPENING?!?

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[Seano]

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The 30 was how many minutes he played. Go to bed. We can argue tomorrow.

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Hahaha. I would say Walterdamus just got served.

[Guest Walter]

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The 30 was how many minutes he played. Go to bed. We can argue tomorrow.

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Hahaha. I would say Walterdamus just got served.

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Another argument against Yi rebuffed. If he can play 30 mins against our top competition, he's got to be tough. Exodus, what else did you think I meant by "30/9"?

W

[exodus]

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If we draft the most talented player here (Yi) he will EASILY be more talented than MW and IMO likely more talented than JS as well.

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That is an assumption, not a fact. You seem to be confusing the two. Funny how you can make that assumption without even watching a game. You talk about hyped players and yet you are doing nothing but hyping Yi.

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Conley is NOT significantly better than Law or Critt.

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Again an assumption not a fact.

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He's a hyped player who is falling (even according to you) because he cannot live up to the hype.

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Again another assumption.

He was the 4th best athlete at the combine. I am sure that really hurt his draft stock.

From what i have read from Bucks fans their wish list is Horford, Conley in that order. I didn't see anyone mention Law or Crit. Their only pgs are Bell and Boykins and Boykins says he won't come back.

From what i have read from Memphis fans they seem to think Horford is a lock if we don't take him.

Therefore it is looking like Conley probably won't last past 6.

If we pass on Law/Crit the earliest either would most likely go would be the Clipps at 14.

[gsuteke]

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the other usa vs. china game

link

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30/9. The other game pretty close to as impressive statistically. This is a kid doing this against our best. WHO on earth at 3 could be remotely as talented? Is this even a race or is Yi so far ahead he can coast? Does the draft now really start at 4?

W

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The 30 was how many minutes he played. Go to bed. We can argue tomorrow.

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you are funny.

what position is Yi playing offensively and defensively in his club games? I am assuming Yao Ming plays the C spot for team China.

[TroyMcClure]

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However i am starting to believe that Yi is the 3rd best prospect in the draft.

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Ex, it took me about 90 seconds to realize he was at least the third best prospect. If the rules had been different, he may have been the #1 this year.

This is high praise, buddy!

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When i watch Parker getting to the basket and finishing i see Conley doing the same thing. I also think Conley will do a better job setting other people up than Parker does.

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Jeff Van Gundy said he was the best finishing little man since Nate Archibald. You really see the same thing? Parker finishes at the rim like MJ! He like, never misses. Parker is absolutely amazing. I haven't seen a whole lot of Conley but he doesn't give me that feeling. I trust he will be good but, Tony Parker good? The things you say would make him a better offensive player than Parker and that just seems insane,imo.

He would have to be near that level to justify taking him over Yi.

[exodus]

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the other usa vs. china game

link

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30/9. The other game pretty close to as impressive statistically. This is a kid doing this against our best. WHO on earth at 3 could be remotely as talented? Is this even a race or is Yi so far ahead he can coast? Does the draft now really start at 4?

W

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The 30 was how many minutes he played. Go to bed. We can argue tomorrow.

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you are funny.

what position is Yi playing offensively and defensively in his club games? I am assuming Yao Ming plays the C spot for team China.

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It isn't the national Chinese team we are watching. It is the Chinese league. Yao doesn't play in the Chinese league which runs at the same time as the NBA.

Again i am not going to repost everything. It isn't that tough for you to page back and read.

[GoDawgs21]

This is what I found more exciting then the stats. Look at that second box score when he got 30 min. Notice Yao and Wang got DNP. So Yi started at F and was the biggest starter. I would guess he was guarding the post players in Bosh etc. So for the theory he would foul out in 12 min vs NBA level post players is now comical.

[Guest Walter]

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If we draft the most talented player here (Yi) he will EASILY be more talented than MW and IMO likely more talented than JS as well.

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That is an assumption, not a fact.

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Like Oden and Durant being better than the rest is an "assumption". Some "assumptions" are well-founded and in the age of no certainty are more certain than waking up in the morning.

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You seem to be confusing the two.

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Nope.

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Funny how you can make that assumption without even watching a game. You talk about hyped players and yet you are doing nothing but hyping Yi.

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I have watched part of one of the games posted and I trust my player assessment judgement. I don't let the mere possibility that one player may be better than another cloud the probability or likelihood that they are not.

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Conley is NOT significantly better than Law or Critt.

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Again an assumption not a fact.

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[exodus]

Since you don't understand the difference let me explain it to you.

Assumption "There is a good chance it will rain tomorrow."

Assumption stated as a fact "it will rain tomorrow."

That is they key difference which you don't have the mental capacity to understand.

Your Roy/Shelden comparison doesn't work because we had a lot more info on Roy than we do on Yi. Roy played 4 years in college. We were able to watch him play live against top college competition. it is much easier to make an accurate assumption when you have a lot of information available.

Our information about Yi is very incomplete because he is playing in a weak league and he isn't playing the position he would be playing over here.

When you say Conley is NOT significantly better than Law or Crit you are stating an assumption as a fact. You are saying all of the NBA scouts who have Conley rated as clearly the top pg are wrong. And the fan consensus has pretty much fallen in line with what scouts are saying.

And using the lane agility test is lame considering the way you pussed out when i challenged the validity of the test earlier.

But since you brought it up again....

Are Sean May and Waynes Simien faster than Chris Paul?

Is Marty A faster than Jeff Green?

*crickets*

And you still haven't addressed the main issue here, which is the value of the pg position vs the forward position and our relative strength at those positions. Any gap in talent between the pgs is much more important than any similar gap in talent among forwards.

But of course you can't accept this because your are unable to use logic instead of hyperbole. Yi is automatically way more talented than our forwards and Conley isn't much better than Law/Crit because you say so.

[mrhonline]

Quotes from U.S.A. players about Yi:

Dwight Howard:

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China has a lot of good players, the player I liked the most was Yi (Yi Jianlian), the young guy, I think he could be the next Yao Ming. He's very talented.

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Elton Brand:

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The young guy (Yi Jianlian), he?s a pretty solid player. I don?t know what team he is on here or what league he is in, but he?s going to be a very good player.

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Lebron James:

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I like Yi's game. Yi is very impressive. I met him last year when I came here. I think he is very good. He has a chance to be in the NBA some day if he keeps working hard on his game. I think Yi was the most impressive guy.

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You can hardly do better for endorsements if you ask me.

[exodus]

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Quotes from U.S.A. players about Yi:

Dwight Howard:

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China has a lot of good players, the player I liked the most was Yi (Yi Jianlian), the young guy, I think he could be the next Yao Ming. He's very talented.

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Elton Brand:

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The young guy (Yi Jianlian), he?s a pretty solid player. I don?t know what team he is on here or what league he is in, but he?s going to be a very good player.

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Lebron James:

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I like Yi's game. Yi is very impressive. I met him last year when I came here. I think he is very good. He has a chance to be in the NBA some day if he keeps working hard on his game. I think Yi was the most impressive guy.

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You can hardly do better for endorsements if you ask me.

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I wish we could get a tape of those games because i think we would get a better idea of what Yi would do here. Watching his league games i don't think will give an accurate picture of what he can do.

[exodus]

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It's absolutely killing you to change your mind and assume my and other's position on the draft, I understand, but quit being a complete ass about it and quit making sophomoric arguments

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This just shows how childish you really are.

I absolutely refused to judge Yi based on highlight clips just on general principle. Anyone can look good in clips. Nobody ever misses a shot in clips.

When i got the chance to watch the games i stated exactly what i saw and thought without regard to any comments i made previously and without regard to whether or not we should draft him.

If it "killed me" so much to change my opinion would i have said, in my very first post after watching him, that he is very fast and probably had the speed of a typical 3 in the NBA? Would i have said that he is quicker and moves laterally better than Josh Smith?

Of course not. If i would have been like you and had my opionions colored by an agenda i wouldn't have mentioned his speed at all. I would have focused instead on how weak he is and how he can get pushed around so easily.

That is the difference between me and you. I can be objective and you can't. whenever you talk about Conley it is always about his shot problem. And your desparate clinging to the lane agility test just shows how unobjective you are. Conley blew both away in the sprint, jumped higher and even outbenched the bigger guys yet all you can focus on is the lane agility test. But when i point out the inconsistencies of the test you stick your tail between your legs.

When Seano finally asked me if watching Yi had changed my opinion about drafting him i said yes. I said specifically that i was against it before but that i would be fine with it now. Would i have said that if it "killed me"?

Get a grip clown.

Right now, if it was up to me, the third pick would be solely between Yi and Conley. There is still more information to gather before making a call. Since you aren't aware of this most intelligent people try to gather as much information as possible before making a decision.

As an example Conley and Law haven't worked out for us yet. If Conley punks Law or vice versa then that would have an influence on my decision.

As another example if i watch more coverage of Yi and he shows me that he can consistently shoot jumpers off the dribble, which i haven't seen him do once, then that would influence my decision.

[Lascar78]

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This is what I found more exciting then the stats. Look at that second box score when he got 30 min. Notice Yao and Wang got DNP. So Yi started at F and was the biggest starter. I would guess he was guarding the post players in Bosh etc. So for the theory he would foul out in 12 min vs NBA level post players is now comical.

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The theory is that he can't STOP PEOPLE without fouling out. If you're not playing much defense, you're not going to foul out, especially during a 30 to 40 point loss.

I watched those games but I don't really remember them, so I don't recall if Yi was playing D well or not (or against who), but the point is that the box score doesn't really show what you think it does. Also, on those USA teams, the guards hogged the ball most of the time, and didn't really put too much pressure on the big defenders.

In that one game, Bosh-Brand-Miller-Howard made 16 of the 20 field goals they took (80%). It's not too hard to not foul out when you don't stop anyone.

For comparison, the game where Yao started at center, Bosh-Brand-Miller-Howard made 8 of the 24 field goalst they took (33%).

Yi is too weak to defend in the NBA, particularly against bigs. He is also too weak to play in the post on offense at this point. He is very athletic, quick, and skilled for a guy his size, but he would be yet another forward on our roster full of forwards.

Drafting Yi would be another BIG gamble on a guy's potential, but he will need to hit the weights HARD. Horford is a lot more NBA ready, but doesn't have the same potential of course. If we draft either of those two, you better be ready to trade some of our young guys immediately also.

I would still draft Conley.

[exodus]

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In that one game, Bosh-Brand-Miller-Howard made 16 of the 20 field goals they took (80%). It's not too hard to not foul out when you don't stop anyone.

For comparison, the game where Yao started at center, Bosh-Brand-Miller-Howard made 8 of the 24 field goalst they took (33%).

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Not to mention a big gripe among Americans is that they don't get the foul calls they are used to getting. Duncan hated international play because he felt he was getting manhandled and not getting any calls.