More thoughts on Yi

[Guest Walter]

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It's absolutely killing you to change your mind and assume my and other's position on the draft, I understand, but quit being a complete ass about it and quit making sophomoric arguments

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This just shows how childish you really are.

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What is childish about that? You clearly do not like the fact that you have changed your position and that positions now aligns itself with many others including me. Your discomfort with yourself is childish. You are so uncomfortable with your change of position you use somphomoric, nonsensivcal arguments like "conley is better than AJ so he'll be the BPAFA" (when both Law and Critt are better than AJ and MAY just as easily be better than Conley...you can "assume" otherwise if you wish) and "your opinion is based upon assumptions" (as if yours aren't). THAT is childish.

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I absolutely refused to judge Yi based on highlight clips just on general principle. Anyone can look good in clips. Nobody ever misses a shot in clips.

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And that's your perogative. I've seen so many highlight clips in my years now that I believe SOMETHING can be judged from them. Having seen Yi's, particularly a most recent one, and just as importantly having watched enough college basketball to know Conley and Horford simply aren't THAT talented, I can make that judgement. My judgement, BTW, has been consistently accurate and good. You can take all the time that you want. You can chew the cud. Whatever. I saw something in that video that sold me for Yi, enough in the season that sold me against Horford or Conley at 3, and not enough (weight) in the predraft camp to sell me for Wright. It's taken you longer and you still are awkward and uncomfortable with yourself about it. BUT you are coming around. I even said I respected you for that, but you continued to defend "Conley is better for us because he's better than our Pgs". Duh? But so are Law and Critt and they BOTH might be better than Conley. You can't ASSUME otherwise using your own mode of argumentation.

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That is the difference between me and you. I can be objective and you can't.

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That and you can stand yourself neck deep in bullshit.

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When Seano finally asked me if watching Yi had changed my opinion about drafting him i said yes. I said specifically that i was against it before but that i would be fine with it now. Would i have said that if it "killed me"?

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And I've also said I respected you for this. Just don't continue to sell Conley as the answer "because he's better than AJ" or attack my positions because they are "assumptions" just like yours or anyone else's are. These are ASG-level argumentations. Quarter truths wrapped in nonsense and lies. Maybe that stuff reads well to you, I don't know, but not to me.

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Get a grip clown.

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How objective and adult of you.

W

[Guest Walter]

That was funny. The whole "assumption vs. fact" sermon. Thanks. Are you saying it's fact that Conley will be better than both Law and Crittenton or that Conley/11 will be better than Yi/Critt or Law? What ARE you saying?

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And you still haven't addressed the main issue here, which is the value of the pg position vs the forward position and our relative strength at those positions. Any gap in talent between the pgs is much more important than any similar gap in talent among forwards.

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I've addressed it a million times! I see this team as having 3 needs: Pg (prospect), center (prospect), and TALENT. I see them as equal.

You have addressed neither this nor the fact that a team MUST take what the draft gives them and not try to squeeze water out of a rock.

This draft does not have a superstar Pg. It has 3 different but similarly talented and equally flawed Pg prospects. Don't think by drafting one of them 3 that he becomes any better than the others.

I have no doubt that the Pg position is more important than power forward for us (although we need post scoring like a biatch), but I do believe:

1) A Pg is no more important than talent to the 4th worst team in the league and one with it's top 2 players being considerably outside the league's top 10 team's top 2 players.

2) A Pg can be had at 11 FAR more likely than enough talent can

3) A draft that provides considerable talent at 3 and similar Pg prospects at 11 shouldn't be bucked agaisnt just to pay as Jaywalker put is "a two year old debt" with the 3rd pick.

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Yi is automatically way more talented than our forwards and Conley isn't much better than Law/Crit because you say so.

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Yes. I said the same about Deng and Iggy over Childress, Deron and even Paul over MW, and Roy over SW. I'm not new at this. I'm pretty accurate.

This isn't hyperbole BTW. It is certainty. You can be wishy/washy if you want, but it was only 3 days ago you were EQUALLY certain that the Hawks MUST pick Conley 3rd. Now that is some interesting "logic" on your part.

W

[exodus]

at least do it accurately. The fact that you make up quotes and attribute thenm to me just shows how clueless you are.

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"conley is better than AJ so he'll be the BPAFA"

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I never said anything even remotely like that.

What i did say is that the pg position is more important than the forward position. I said that we are stronger at the forward position. Therefore i concluded that any talent gap between the pgs is more important than a similar talent gap among the forwards.

You have yet to even try to refute this. Instead you make up a lie so you can do the strawman dance.

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You clearly do not like the fact that you have changed your position and that positions now aligns itself with many others including me.

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As usual you get it wrong. I wasn't the least bit uncomfortable in either evaluating yi's game or in changing my position on drafting him. I made myself very clear.

What i am uncomfortable with is someone trying to tell me what i think.

You are the one who is uncomfortable because my opinion doesn't exactly agree with yours. You are absolutely convinced Yi is a better pick than Conley and i am not. As of right now i am undecided between the two. maybe by draft time i will have a clear preference and maybe i won't. The Hawks workouts aren't until the 20th and there are more Yi games to watch.

For example is Law holds his own against Conley in their head to head matchups then the needle will swing in Yi's direction.

I have noticed you still refuse to debate the validity of the lane agility test even though you keep bringing up Conleys time. What a surprise from Mr Objectivity.

[gsuteke]

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In that one game, Bosh-Brand-Miller-Howard made 16 of the 20 field goals they took (80%). It's not too hard to not foul out when you don't stop anyone.

For comparison, the game where Yao started at center, Bosh-Brand-Miller-Howard made 8 of the 24 field goalst they took (33%).

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Not to mention a big gripe among Americans is that they don't get the foul calls they are used to getting. Duncan hated international play because he felt he was getting manhandled and not getting any calls.

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that's all I want to know.

he isn't a good defender down low and he'll wind up being a 7 foot PF/SF. we don't need another forward is all i'm saying.

I don't dislike Yi, I've just never heard an expert or a scout rave about his low post game on either end of the floor.

[exodus]

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Are you saying it's fact that Conley will be better than both Law and Crittenton or that Conley/11 will be better than Yi/Critt or Law? What ARE you saying?

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I am saying that in my (and most others) opinion there is a significant gap between Conley and Law/Crit. How signigifant it is will be the determining factor in whether or not Conley should be the pick.

We will have more information on this after the workouts, just like we have more information now than we did before the combine.

You are focusing on the talent gap between yi and the other forwards available at 11. However that should be of secondary importance because we are stronger at the forward spot and the pg position is more important.

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you were EQUALLY certain that the Hawks MUST pick Conley 3rd.

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Again that is the difference between me and you. I don't say things like that.

I can state an opinion without proclaiming it as a certainty.

[gsuteke]

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Are you saying it's fact that Conley will be better than both Law and Crittenton or that Conley/11 will be better than Yi/Critt or Law? What ARE you saying?

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I am saying that in my (and most others) opinion there is a significant gap between Conley and Law/Crit. How signigifant it is will be the determining factor in whether or not Conley should be the pick.

We will have more information on this after the workouts, just like we have more information now than we did before the combine.

You are focusing on the talent gap between yi and the other forwards available at 11. However that should be of secondary importance because we are stronger at the forward spot and the pg position is more important.

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you were EQUALLY certain that the Hawks MUST pick Conley 3rd.

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Again that is the difference between me and you. I don't say things like that.

I can state an opinion without proclaiming it as a certainty.

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PG will have the biggest impact on the Atlanta Hawks over the next two years. there is no arguing otherwise unless you want to be unreasonable about it.

Conley will blow away Law and Critt in workouts IMO. if I'm wrong please feel free to bring this post back up.

After he does though BK will have a tough decision to make.

[Guest Walter]

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I still think Conley would have the biggest impact on our team. Reason being is that the gap between his abilities and the abilities of the pgs we have is greater than the gap between Yi's abilities and the forwards we have.

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Conley, Law, and Critt are ALL better than our existing Pgs and none of them can be ASSUMED (your word not mine) better than the other. There is no significant talent difference between them. They are all good prospects with flaws.

Most importantly, it's not a one pick draft. It's a two pick draft. AND we have THREE needs: TALENT (4th losingest record and two lesser top 2 players), Pg prospect, center prospect.

I can ASSURE you that we fill two of those needs with Yi (3) and Crit/Law (11). You can only assure us we fill one with Conley because the 11th pick is a [censored] place to pick talent and this draft in its entirety after Oden is a [censored] place for centers.

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I disagree with your statement, however, the more accurate statement should read "is Yi better (or not better) than MW more than is Conley is better (or not better) than Crit or Law". I believe Yi is better than MW more than Conley is better than Crit or Law. Remember, we've got to trade for a center anyhow.

[Guest Walter]

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Conley will blow away Law and Critt in workouts IMO. if I'm wrong please feel free to bring this post back up.

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Are they all working out together? Anyone know this?

W

[exodus]

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There is no significant talent difference between them.

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Again an assumption stated as a fact which disagrees with all of the experts and most fans.

And my actual quote is completely different from your earlier strawman quote.

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I believe Yi is better than MW more than Conley is better than Crit or Law.

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That is a better way of looking at it. And it may well be correct but i am not willing to make that call yet.

If you want to call it that way then fine. But don't try to put words in my mouth and tell me what i believe. You don't know everything now matter how much you think you do.

If Law comes in and works out well against Conley then i might say that Yi is my clear favorite. However i can't say that now.

[exodus]

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Conley will blow away Law and Critt in workouts IMO. if I'm wrong please feel free to bring this post back up.

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Are they all working out together? Anyone know this?

W

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Law and Conley are reportedly going to match up against one another. the Hawks won't start working out guys until the 20th. don't ask me why they are waiting so long.

[gsuteke]

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Conley will blow away Law and Critt in workouts IMO. if I'm wrong please feel free to bring this post back up.

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Are they all working out together? Anyone know this?

W

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Law and Conley are reportedly going to match up against one another. the Hawks won't start working out guys until the 20th. don't ask me why they are waiting so long.

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they are working out Horford like 5 or 6 days before the draft. sometimes I wonder, well actually that innacurate, I always wonder about the Hawks organization and their decision making. where is the common sense here?

and yes, I read somewhere that atleast two of them are working out against one another, I thought Critt was also.

I'll look tomorrow at work. for now I'll have to finish the lawn. i'm procrastinating right now. it's hot as hell outside

[a1aa0]

2 games VS USA; 1 assist vs 8 turnovers

Only way I have to explain this without seeing the actual game is they figure get the ball in his or Yao's hands and let them score...

Inability or lack of talent of other players meant the ball wasn't going back out once it got in Yao's or Li's hands?

[Diesel]

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I wish we could get a tape of those games because i think we would get a better idea of what Yi would do here. Watching his league games i don't think will give an accurate picture of what he can do.

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Wow... What will it take Exodus??

Del Harris, NBA Coach, says that Yi will be a very good NBA player.

Brand, NBA Allstar, says that Yi will be a very good player.

Lebron, King, says that Yi was very impressive and he will be a very good player.

How much more do you need?? Neither Gasol, Dirk, or Bargnani got this kind of approval by NBA players.

Bogut who played head to head with Tim Duncan in the olympics, didn't get this kind of approval, except the word of Rick Majerus who said that Marvin Williams will be better.

Even Nike approves of Yi.

Yet, you want to see more film. Everyday, more film comes out. You watch and you are mildly entertained or something but you still stand by Conley for 3?? Conley is the second coming of Brevin Knight. We shouldn't waste a 3 pick on that. Yi has more potential than any Europlayer who has ever come to the USA except maybe Yao. And he has more skills than all of them except maybe Yao.

[exodus]

First of all BK isn't picking Conley. That much is fairly clear. The only way he picks Conley is if Conley blows BK away in his workout. And since Chris Paul didn't blow BK away (Paul said he had his best workout here) then it is a safe bet Conley won't blow BK away either.

If i sound wishy washy on Yi it is because i am projecting him doing things here which he isn't doing in an inferior league.

-i think he can be a consistent perimeter shooter, but it is hard to tell because he takes maybe 3 jumpers a game.

- i think he can score off the dribble although i havne't seen him do it at all.

-i think he can guard the 3 spot in the NBA, but guarding Lebron and Melo is a long way from getting punked by CBA centers.

[Diesel]

Instead of making up fairy tales about the players, just look at them with their present abilities.. and transpose those onto our team.

For instance, BK is smart not to take Conley because he's a small guard who can't shoot. Small guards already have a problem getting their shot off and in the absence of a Tim Duncan who demands so much respect that the interior travels with him and opens up for his guards, getting a small guard like Conley makes no sense for us. In fact, we may pass him up twice because if you be honest about it, other than PTL (who could trade with somebody like Sac-Town) I don't see anybody really wanting that type of Guard.

About Yi. He's a Pf. Right now, I would call him a finesse PF. He is skilled enough that he can put the ball on the floor. He has a good shot and I know you've seen his hook shot and his turnaround. This kid has skills already. Defensively, we play Zone, plop Shelden or Zaza in the middle and let Yi and Smoove do what they do best.. Block shots from the blindside or double.

I also hope that you have had a chance to watch a little more Law. It was funny previously to see you try to characterize texas A&M as a walk it up halfcourt team? They are far from that. And Law is more than just a Salim type of shooter.

Actually, I would have trouble saying that Conley is better than Critt. Critt may take a little more time to come around, but Critt is potentially a better prospect.

[exodus]

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About Yi. He's a Pf. Right now, I would call him a finesse PF. He is skilled enough that he can put the ball on the floor. He has a good shot and I know you've seen his hook shot and his turnaround.

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I don't see him as a pf. He just doesn't take contact well at all right now and fumbles the ball easily.

He has a very good turnaround J but his jump hook is weak. He does have a good up and under move so that and his turnaround is enough really. He isn't going to be a full time post player.

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I also hope that you have had a chance to watch a little more Law. It was funny previously to see you try to characterize texas A&M as a walk it up halfcourt team?

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I saw Law play his bet two games of the season live. I know what he can do. I don't know where you got the walk it up nonsense from. He was quoted as saying he would prefer to play more uptempo. And no way is he a Salim type shooter.

As far as Conley goes i have made my thoughts pretty clear. BK has also made it clear he isn't taking him unless he falls to 11. His comments yesterday on the radio made that crystal clear. Therefore any more talk of Conley at 3 is just .