Agree or Disagree 4.

[Diesel]

Noah.

[ATLBob]

Haha, nice try D ... those disses are just to hard to pass up, tho'

[Diesel]

School me here. Who is the better defensive player in the draft than Noah and why do you say that?

[Swatguy]

Brewer is the superior defender in this draft. Noah actually has average shoulders and upper arms. If he had not been cautious he would have done better than th 12-13 reps he did at the combine.

I believe Noah will be a stand-out player for years.

[KB21]

I'll give you at least five:

Mike Conley Jr., Corey Brewer, Jeff Green, Al Horford, and Greg Oden.

[Swatguy]

Quote:

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Brewer is the superior defender in this draft. Noah actually has average shoulders and upper arms. If he had not been cautious he would have done better than th 12-13 reps he did at the combine.

I believe Noah will be a stand-out player for years.

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I meant to say Large upper arms.

[atlien]

Al Horford.lol

[Diesel]

Joakim Noah:

Blocks Last 2 years: 95, 77.

Steals Last 2 years: 44, 45.

Defensive rebs Last 2 years: 193, 235.

Offensive rebs Last 2 years: 85, 102.

Al Horford:

Blocks Last 2 years: 68, 70.

Steals Last 2 years: 40, 28.

Defensive rebs Last 2 years: 209, 264.

Offensive rebs Last 2 years: 86, 96.

It's a shame that people believe that Al Horford is a better defensive player than Joakim Noah. The truth is that in defensive categories, Joakim Noah trumps Horford badly... The numbers prove it.

[Diesel]

Complimentary bump.

[BusBoyIsBack]

You think because Noah got a few more weakside shotblocks he's a better defender than Horford?

The significance people place on block numbers these days are why they don't understand what a true defender is.

First of all, Horford was the Center on the team despite being shorter becuase he was the better post player on both ends of the floor.

He was a better rebounder than Noah and a tougher on ball defender.

[Buzzard]

Quote:

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Joakim Noah:

Blocks Last 2 years: 95, 77.

Steals Last 2 years: 44, 45.

Defensive rebs Last 2 years: 193, 235.

Offensive rebs Last 2 years: 85, 102.

Al Horford:

Blocks Last 2 years: 68, 70.

Steals Last 2 years: 40, 28.

Defensive rebs Last 2 years: 209, 264.

Offensive rebs Last 2 years: 86, 96.

It's a shame that people believe that Al Horford is a better defensive player than Joakim Noah. The truth is that in defensive categories, Joakim Noah trumps Horford badly... The numbers prove it.

---

No its a shame you still do not understand the lesson Shelden taught us. Shelden by his college numbers should have at least been all NBA defensive rookie of the year. Instead, he does not even make the all rookie 2nd team.

Injury or not, Shelden could not even average a block a game in the NBA. I like Shelden and I like Noah; but for all your hype with the numbers; Shelden proved once and for all that defensive college stats do not equal NBA defensive stats.

[TheDude]

i like chocolate ice cream.

[atlien]

Dude, some of your arguments of why Horford is no good for us are somewhat legitimate (even though I personally don't agree with them).

But the second you advocate Noah above Horford, you lose all credibility in my eyes.

Horford will simply be better on BOTH ends in the NBA. Noah is the over-rated college player (who doesn't bring that much more than Solomon IMO)... in that sense maybe HE is more like Shelly.

Horford will be the better pro. Donovan said it himself, and pretty much everyone with half a brain agrees.

So, argue against Horford all you want, but the second you say Noah is better, you come off retarded to me.

I mean, did you watch these guys on the court?

Or maybe you just have a man-crush on Noah and his "charismatic" personality?

(come to think of it, Horford looks just as tall as Noah in that clip, but I digress)

I'm just foolin ya, but c'mon, Noah will be nowhere near the player Horford will be.

Getting Noah at 3 is more like the Shelden pick (i.e. an over-rated college player) than getting Horford.

[Diesel]

So as you're making a point against college players who are defensive standouts... (I would mention Alonzo Mourning, Dikembe, and Okafor but there's no need)..

What is your basis for thinking that Horford WILL BE a good defensive player.

Let's truthfully admit together...

1. He was merely mediocre in college.

2. He played in a zone and didn't display many man to man defensive skills.

3. Lane Agility tests suggests that he does not have great footwork.

Come on Strawman... Show me some evidence? Why should anyone believe that Horford is going to be a good defensive player? Because he can run a helluva 3/4 sprint??

Strawman... recognize the truth...Horford is the biggest smokescreen in this draft. I'm pretty sure that Noah will be drafted ahead of him when it's all said and done. That is unless BK takes the bait.

[Diesel]

Dude, all I did was put the numbers out there.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Quote:

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Dude, some of your arguments of why Horford is no good for us are somewhat legitimate (even though I personally don't agree with them).

But the second you advocate Noah above Horford, you lose all credibility in my eyes.

Horford will simply be better on BOTH ends in the NBA. Noah is the over-rated college player (who doesn't bring that much more than Solomon IMO)... in that sense maybe HE is more like Shelly.

Horford will be the better pro. Donovan said it himself, and pretty much everyone with half a brain agrees.

So, argue against Horford all you want, but the second you say Noah is better, you come off retarded to me.

I mean, did you watch these guys on the court?

Or maybe you just have a man-crush on Noah and his "charismatic" personality?

(come to think of it, Horford looks just as tall as Noah in that clip, but I digress)

I'm just foolin ya, but c'mon, Noah will be nowhere near the player Horford will be.

Getting Noah at 3 is more like the Shelden pick (i.e. an over-rated college player) than getting Horford.

---

It's not Noah he has a crush on, it's his boy Shelden who he worries Horford will replace

But like I've said, I may be defending Horford for nothing because BK may feel the same way. The Shelden pick may make BK feel as if we can't get Horford even though that is a huge mistake.

[Diesel]

No my problem is wasting the 3rd pick of the draft.

Horford is not significantly better than Shelden and definitely not a better post defender.

And you have done nothing to prove that he is or can be.

All you have to back Horford up is feelings. Feelings don't fly around here. You can save your feelings for your redbook chat blog. My question is what has he done? What has he done to warrant us picking him third? IF you say because other teams say they want him then Strawman.... There's no help for you. You're about as bad as Billy Knight 2005.

[gsuteke]

[Buzzard]

Quote:

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Come on Strawman... Show me some evidence?

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What do you consider proof? The only proof I can offer is the games he played and where he played them at=center. While Noah was drawing the easier assignment at the 4. I like Noah's athletic ability and maybe he turns out to be a Camby type player. But for our needs; I like Horfords strength.

I guess my proof is the type of player I like at center. I have never liked Camby as a prospect for our center. Just to damn skinny. But Horford to me is a shorter version of Mourning's body type.

He is thicker and stronger; where as Noah is leaner and weaker. You got some proof out there that shows me Noah is physically stronger than Horford?

And what the hell you talking about strawman. My favorites have been Conley, Law, Hawes, and Horford except when Hibbert was still in this. Now if Noah drops to 11 and none of the above are available=sure take a chance on his skinny ass....

[BusBoyIsBack]

Quote:

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No my problem is wasting the 3rd pick of the draft.

Horford is not significantly better than Shelden and definitely not a better post defender.

And you have done nothing to prove that he is or can be.

All you have to back Horford up is feelings. Feelings don't fly around here. You can save your feelings for your redbook chat blog. My question is what has he done? What has he done to warrant us picking him third? IF you say because other teams say they want him then Strawman.... There's no help for you. You're about as bad as Billy Knight 2005.

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Here's a stat since you're so infatuated with them:

Among players with 260+ attempts on major schools, only Brandan Wright had a better FG% than Horford.

And FG% has been a much more telling statistic in predicting success of a post player in the pros than PPG. Just see Carlos Boozer vs Shelden Williams for an example. Or any successful player vs someone Chris Wilcox.

The reason is because anyone can chuck up 400+ shots. But the better players are the ones who take a decent amount of shots and make it consistently.