How do we resolve this PG / front court glut???

[BHayley]

I’ve thought this through ten million times and still do not have an answer.

Regardless of what big man we take, we still have a big issue on our hands.

1) Say that we take Al Horford at #3

Where does he play? If Marvin and Josh stay at the 3 and 4, that means Horford is our 5 (assuming he starts). I’d love to see ZaZa be the backup center, which he plays nicely. So where does that leave Shelden? BK said he wants to give Shelden more minutes. YES, I know a lot of you hate Shelden and want nothing to do with him, but look at his numbers for the minutes he plays.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shelden_will...game_stats.html

Games which he plays 25 minutes + he gets 8 or 9 rebounds and 10 PPG. That number will only increase now that he has a year of experience under his belt. I also think the fact that he is engaged will pump him up a bit. Let’s not forget about Solomon Jones, who was somewhat coming along nicely at the end of the year too.

So this scenario leaves atleast one player out

2) Say that we take Yi at #3

Marvin or Josh Smith (I assume Marvin) is the odd man out in this situation. What happens to Childress’ minutes? Is he traded? Does he now back up Joe solely at the 2? What happens to Marvin?

3) I have not heard Woody or BK say that we are trading or are interested in trading any of the PGs

From what I’ve read, it looks like they expect all our PG’s to be healthy this season and to give it another go. I assume Acie Law will be our #11 pick, so I wonder what will happen with the PG situation. I’d LOVE to see Speedy stay healthy and put up some numbers. So let’s say we trade Tyronn Lue + Josh Childress / Marvin to try clear up some spots…Who do we trade for? We’re set at SG, although I’d like to see Salim packaged for a backup SG.

I really have a lot of questions about the makeup of this roster until draft night. I see a big question mark as to what we do with four potential point guards, two big men (ZaZa and Shelden) who will ONLY improve at their ages, and wing players whose positions on this team may be in jeopardy.

My two cents.

[BHayley]

*

[SetonHallHawk]

Take Crittenton at 11. A proven homegrown product with size and athleticism. It would be a great marketing strategy for the Hawks.

[Mutombo_55]

I agree.

I love Horford's game. But both Knight and Woodson have both publicly referred to Josh Smith (who will be near all-star calibur in 2007-08) as a power forward.

I think Horford is capable of playing minutes at Center, but I still don't see that as his natural position. I think he's the best talent at #3.

I'm beginning to think maybe Atlanta should just draft Michael Conley at #3. It might not be the sexiest pick, but it makes a lot of sense.

[BHayley]

%

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Hayley, you're making this too complicated, when it really isn't complicated at all. I don't think we have a glut at all, considering the personnel makeup of this team.

Horford will play both the 4 and the 5. He'll probably start at the 5. Billy said that he'd like to see Shelden get more minutes at center. So that's what will happen. Remember, ZaZa is really a PF as well, so you could conceivably have Shelden at the 5 and ZaZa at the 4, if they happen to be on the floor together. With Horford, it'll give us a legit 4 man rotation at the 4 and 5 spots, with Solomon and maybe Lorenzen playing spot duty in the frontcourt. And while I'm not a fan of it, Smoove will probably see a few minutes a game at the 3 as well.

C Depth chart:

- Horford

- Shelden

- ZaZa

- Lorenzen

PF Depth Chart:

- Smoove

- Shelden

- Horford

- Solomon

- ZaZa

**************

As far as the PGs go, remember, both Lue and AJ's contract expires at the end of the 07 - 08 season. Our problem this time last year, was that the only PGs we had on the roster were Lue and Speedy. When both started to miss time, we had NO PG here. We had to resort to playing Ivey or even Childress at the point, along with JJ playing more PG than he probably thought he would.

Adding Law to the fold only means that we'll have 2 PGs signed and on the roster for the 08 -09 season. This year, it may be in our best interest to keep the extra PGs around, seeing how Speedy is injury prone and how Lue, when healthy, is a pretty good shooter to insert into a game.

*****************

Personally, I don't see where the concern is. Depth is not a bad thing to have. Our young players will get to play, if they prove themselves right away. If not, they'll sit behind the vets and learn. If Law proves right away that he's better than both Lue and AJ, he'll move up to #2 in the PG depth chart, while guys like Lue and AJ play spot roles at the 1 and 2 spot. Lue can be a shooter at the 2, while AJ can defend the 1 and the 2 position.

The guy who should be worrying about his playing time, is Salim Stoudamire. He's going to be the odd man out, if he doesn't elevate his game.

So here are my version of the Hawks, assuming we keep the picks and don't make any trades.

PG - Speedy

G - JJ

G - Marvin

F - Smoove

F/C - Horford

Bench:

6th man - Childress

7th man - Shelden

8th man - Lue

9th man - Law

10th man - ZaZa

. . with AJ, Salim, Lorenzen and Solomon rounding out the bench.

Two of those guys will not dress on a given night. That guy on most nights, will be Lorenzen. If we're playing a big frontline, Woody may opt to dress Lorenzen, and bench Solomon.

And one of the guards will probably join him in street clothes. Right now, my guess is that guy would be AJ. If Salim gets off to the start he did last year, he'll be the one in street clothes, sulking on the bench.

If Horford and Shelden prove that they can handle the 5 spot, you may see ZaZa fall out of the top 10 rotation, and probably rotate not dress out sometimes.

If Law immeadiately proves that he can at the very least be the backup PG, it'll mean that either AJ and Salim will rotate not dressing out.

No problem at all Hayley. We're going to be a well-rounded and DEEP team, if we keep the picks and don't move anybody.

[BHayley]

Northcyde, I must say I think you're by far the best poster on here or ESPN Message Boards or Realgm.com.

I just don't think Shelden can play at anywhere besides the 5 (no speed), so a three man rotation at the 4 and 5 between Smoove / Horford / Shelden would be fine. That rounds out to about 32 minutes a player.

Do you think we'll try to trade maybe Lue + Chillz around the trade deadline? I doubt either resigns with us (we MUST keep Josh Smith), and maybe we could get a backup wing or something?

Maybe Anthony Johnson can be to us what Eric Snow is to the Cavs. It appears Anthony went to the finals twice with the Nets half a decade ago, so he could maybe sit back and mentor our young guys. If anyone saw Eric Snow yelling at his teammates with 10 minutes left in game 4 of the finals (LeBron was chewing his nails...What a surprise) you'll know what I mean here.

I think we have to be careful with our backcourt. If Joe is out and Childress is playing at the 3, that leaves us with a bunch of barely-6-footers running the backcourt. A backcourt of T. Lue and another PG will get harrassed. You said Acie plays good defense, so that helps. Northcyde, who do you compare Acie Law to? I'm hoping he turns out to be a bit like Mike James or Sam Cassell--cocky, but can back his play up (Mike James on the Raptors was a killer).

I'm kind of disappointed that you have ZaZa at #10 though. Even though we are hardly paying him anything, he's a wonderful center to bring right off the bench. Maybe as the season progresses and we face all these different teams, we can juggle around our lineup a bit.

I agree about us being a deep team. Even this last year with a healthy lineup we were about 9 deep. I wouldn't mind just seeing Salim go at this point. I'm thinking Childress and Acie (ASSUMING he's drafted) could cover up what Salim did with this team.

What could we trade Salim for anyway? Would he merit us a 2nd round pick?

Thanks for clearing it all up, Northcyde

[MikeWilksBooth]

I like Anthony Johnson as the starter and once we get Law he can take over the 2nd half of the year. Anthony to me can play acceptable D and can keep the D honest with his shot. Lue has no defense and has a big head (literally and figuratively). I'd try to unload him or/and Salim for a 2nd round pick or any piece to help this team.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Quote:

---

I just don't think Shelden can play at anywhere besides the 5 (no speed), so a three man rotation at the 4 and 5 between Smoove / Horford / Shelden would be fine. That rounds out to about 32 minutes a player.

---

I think Shelden needs to improve how hard he works when he comes into a game. I saw how Chuck Hayes played last year in Houston, and he brought it just about every night. Chuck played PF . . and he's only 6-6. It'll be interesting to see if Houston re-signs him. They probably should, before some other team scoops him up.

But back to Shelden. A lot of red flags went up about Shelden, starting with those summer league games. It was pretty obvious then that he couldn't create his own offense with any consistency. But I think he's the type of player that can do the dirty work for us, especially on the defensive end and on the boards. But you're right, I think he has to play the 5. Steve Smith pretty much said that all year during Hawks telecasts. LOL . . maybe Smitty needs to be the coach.

Quote:

---

Do you think we'll try to trade maybe Lue + Chillz around the trade deadline? I doubt either resigns with us (we MUST keep Josh Smith), and maybe we could get a backup wing or something?

---

That's definitely a possibility. It'll depend where we are in the standings, and if the rookies are progressing at a fast rate. I don't see Lue or Chill being traded, if we're in the middle of a playoff run, unless we can trade them for a very good player. And I've said all along that I wouldn't trade Chill, Marvin, or Smoove, just to fill a need with a player that might have less talent. Young guys like that should be traded for proven vets, not more young talent or some stiff at center.

Personally, I think the Hawks are going to take a chance to see what Chill's value is on the open market, just like they'll probably do with Smoove. If it's not too much, they may match any offer up to 5 million, to retain Chill. But whatever money Chill gets, is going to depend on how well this team is playing. If we're playing well, he'll get some press and his stock will go up. If we're still struggling, his market value won't skyrocket. The same goes for Smoove.

Quote:

---

Maybe Anthony Johnson can be to us what Eric Snow is to the Cavs. It appears Anthony went to the finals twice with the Nets half a decade ago, so he could maybe sit back and mentor our young guys. If anyone saw Eric Snow yelling at his teammates with 10 minutes left in game 4 of the finals (LeBron was chewing his nails...What a surprise) you'll know what I mean here.

---

I like AJ a lot. He's definitely the type of vet that Woody prefers to have on this team. But I think a healthy Lue is better than AJ. And if the PG we take at #11 is ready to make a contribution, it may be a numbers game for AJ to get playing time. There will be certain situations in which AJ's presence and experience will definitely come in handy for us next year. If Speedy goes down again, AJ will definitely be a luxury for this team to have. But at the end of the day, talent will rise to the top. And whether it be Acie, Javaris, or Mike, one of those young PGs will have a great opportunity to seize that starting PG spot before the year is over.

Quote:

---

I think we have to be careful with our backcourt. If Joe is out and Childress is playing at the 3, that leaves us with a bunch of barely-6-footers running the backcourt. A backcourt of T. Lue and another PG will get harrassed. You said Acie plays good defense, so that helps. Northcyde, who do you compare Acie Law to? I'm hoping he turns out to be a bit like Mike James or Sam Cassell--cocky, but can back his play up (Mike James on the Raptors was a killer).

---

If JJ goes down, we're definitely in trouble. But this is also the luxury of getting a Law. If need be, he can play a Ben Gordon type role, and be the scorer. If JJ went down, you'd probably see a Speedy - Law backcourt or a Speedy - Childress backcourt. When healthy, Speedy is strong and athletic. Matter of fact, he may be just as athletic as Conley. Speedy can handle the defensive duties at the point. But I see your concern. There are a lot of big 2-guards in this league.

Law is 6-3. Just for perspective, here are the heights of the starting 2-guards, or guys who play a lot of the 2, in the playoffs.

- Devin Harris ( DAL ): 6-3

- Jason Terry: 6-2

- Stepheh Jackson ( GS ): 6-8

- Jason Richardson ( GS ): 6-6

- Derek Fisher ( UTA ): 6-1 ( but he's tough like AJ and can defend 2's )

- Tracy McGrady ( HOU ): 6-8

- Mike Finley ( SA ): 6-7

- Manu Ginobli ( SA ): 6-6 ( I didn't realize he was this big . . I thought he was 6-4 )

- Allen Iverson ( DEN ): 6-0 ( but he's a scorer and can play the point )

- Raja Bell ( PHO ): 6-5

- Kobe Bryant ( LAL ) : 6-6

EAST

- Rip Hamilton ( DET ): 6-7

- Grant Hill ( ORL ): 6-8

- Dwyane Wade ( MIA ): 6-4

- Ben Gordon ( CHI ): 6-3

- Anthony Parker ( TOR ): 6-5

- Morris Peterson ( TOR ): 6-7

- Richard Jefferson ( NJ ): 6-7

- Sasha Pavlovic ( CLE ): 6-7

- DeShawn Stevenson ( WAS ): 6-5

Hopefully with Smoove coming on last year when JJ was out, we could survive a little better. But we'd need production from everybody to do it.

Quote:

---

I'm kind of disappointed that you have ZaZa at #10 though. Even though we are hardly paying him anything, he's a wonderful center to bring right off the bench. Maybe as the season progresses and we face all these different teams, we can juggle around our lineup a bit.

---

Personally, I thought that Shelden would move ZaZa down last year, eventually taking over the center spot. But he had trouble fouling people last year. Then he got hurt. We'll see how Shelden comes back next season.

ZaZa I like. But he's inconsistent. Very inconsistent. And I don't think he has the desire to improve on the defensive end. He'll gamble for steals and sometimes steal the ball, but his man defense is horrible.

What irritates me about ZaZa is the rebounding. He'll go all out to get his own miss, but not nearly as hard to get a defensive board. He's also a turnover machine in the post. If ZaZa is playing well ( 14.5 ppg . . 7.3 rebs . . 54.6% FG when we won ), the Hawks are usually in good position to win a game. If he isn't ( 10.9 ppg . . 6.8 rebs . . 42.8% FG when we lost ), we're usually having problems.

47% FG on the season is good . . if you're playing SG, SF, or are a shooting/scoring PF. If you're a center, especially a role playing center, you need to be well over 50% FG.

If Horford is the real deal, and can defend as well as score, ZaZa's minutes are going to drastically go down. If not, then ZaZa will have to play to provide offense in the paint.

Quote:

---

I agree about us being a deep team. Even this last year with a healthy lineup we were about 9 deep. I wouldn't mind just seeing Salim go at this point. I'm thinking Childress and Acie (ASSUMING he's drafted) could cover up what Salim did with this team.

What could we trade Salim for anyway? Would he merit us a 2nd round pick?

Thanks for clearing it all up, Northcyde

---

If I'm Salim's agent, I'm setting him up to go play with Kobe in LA ( because LA would be foolish to trade Kobe. You keep him there and call his bluff about not playing for the season. But you DON'T trade him under ANY circumstances. Let his azz cry. )

I'm a Salim fan. I like to see the kid play well and I root for him probably more than any other Hawk. But he's like ZaZa . . too inconsistent. Salim could very easily be Kobe's "Steve Kerr" in LA. And he's not afraid to take that big shot. Salim had a big chance to really show the team and the league what he could do as a player when all of the PGs started to go down. But he didn't elevate his level of play until it was way too late for us.

No doubt that Salim could get us a 2nd round pick, if we traded him right now to a veteran, playoff team that needs a shooter ( LA, Cleveland, Orlando, etc ). But a team can always wait until his contract runs out next year, and just sign him then. So unless he's a filler in some package deal with Chill or Marvin, to bring in a very good veteran, he'll probably be on the roster next year.

[Diesel]

At #3, you shouldn't pick a glorified role player of a potential Allstar. PERIOD...

Let's look at the facts.

Can anybody say with a straight face that Horford will ever be an allstar?

Anybody?

Does his 8 pts, 8 rebs suggest to you that he will be anything more than an out of position PF playing C?

Picking Horford would probably be the worst move our franchise could make. Skillsetwise, he duplicates Shelden. He's not a better Athlete than Smoove. And he is not the scorer, Potential allstar that Yi is.

AGAINST TEAM USA.

14, 9 in one game... 30 min.

and

13, 7, and 2 blocks in another....24 min.

Click

Against team USA, Yi has not shot lower than 50%.

Elton Brand said, "he's going to be a very good player".

Coach K sings his praise.

JJ sings his praise.

Del Harris Sings his praise and talks about how good he will be.

What more do you need??

Take allstar talent and potential over the glorified role player (Horford).