Horford could only help Josh and Marvin?

[archie_otu]

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I assume you're calling Donovan a liar then? David Lee was an incredibly intelligent player at Florida, as was Matt Bonner, and Donovan says with conviction that Horford was smarter than both of them. Nobody is saying that Shelden isn't a smart player, but at the same time, let's not make it sound like Horford is lacking in that department, either.

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I heard Coach Hewitt on the radio singing the praises about Crittenton...He said that in 3 or 4 years he could easily see him being an all-star point guard. A coach will always stick up for his players regardless so that's why I said I dont take too much for what a coach might say...I try to watch the games and judge for myself. And I never once said that Horford was a buffoon on the basketball court...I was only praising Shelden. I can't even compare Horford's intelligence to Shelden's intelligence because it's all subjective. I do that eyeball test. Shelden is one of the most technically sound defensive players I've ever seen on the college level...he rarely gets beat by pump fakes, he's always in the proper position, etc...and despite his lack of size, he will be a solid double double guy for the Hawks next year...it normally takes a year or two for a player to adjust to the speed of the NBA so I fully expect Sheldon to be starting a center by around the all-star break.

The same ones who fall in love with Horford will be the same ones who'll be off the bandwagon when Horford gets in early foul trouble for the majority of the season.

[AtLaS]

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Having Noah on your squad actually increases your ability to get rebounds. Without a Noah, teams could actually focus on boxing Shelden out with 2 or 3 men (if need be).. the Whole league knew he was their only rebounder.

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Lmao at that horrible argument. Just make up something if you have nothing to prove your point.

[Guest Walter]

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If you think about it, Horford might be the first post presence, that Josh and Marvin can work with. Horford, will demand double teams, and with josh and Marvin being slasher, they'll be able to cut to the basket easier. Also he'll be able to get Marvin open looks, with him commanding double team. Anyone agree with this?

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Horford hurts both of those players. He assumes SW's role entirely and he's TOO SMALL at center to play next to JS at Pf. What a sorry draft selection. Not on talent as he isn't a bad talent at 3 (not the best either) but no player in the draft more resembled SW than Horford and nobody 6'8.75" or 6'9.75" in shoes should EVER be allowed to play next to JS at the 5 and 4 respectively.

W

[Diesel]

Have you ever PLAYED basketball??

If you have 2 skilled rebounder that you are playing against, who do you box out?

Logic says, the best one.

However, from the tourney... I thought this was interesting and made this case:

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There was plenty more of that.

Led by Horford's 17 rebounds, Florida outboarded UCLA 43-26. The Gators blocked six shots and altered countless more.

Noah, supposedly Florida's best player, finished with only eight points but had 11 rebounds and four blocks -- typical of the star player on a team that hasn't seemed to care who gets the credit this season.

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So in essence, when Horford does well, it's basically because he's surrounded by great talent who makes it happen. You can't box out Horford is your team is concentrating on keeping Noah off the glass.

[AHF]

I agree that Desiel's point is valid that with two standout rebounders it is harder to keep each of them off the boards because you can't focus on blocking out one of them. That said, there are clearly also fewer rebounds available for the other player if both guys are good rebounders. When there is only one guy who is a big rebounder on the team that guy will accrue more rebounds on the whole.

For example, Ben Wallace's rebounds dropped by nearly 3 per game when Rasheed joined the team because he was a much better rebounder than his predecessor. This made it harder for teams to keep Wallace off the boards but meant that there were also fewer rebounds available for Wallace to rebound.

Most rebounding leaders don't play with someone on their team who is a strong rebounder for this reason (such as KG, Rodman, Dikembe, etc.)

[Diesel]

That's if you suggest that there's a static number of rebounds per game.

Maybe the addition of Wallace improved the teams ability to score (Increasing the FG% and decreasing the Rebs) or maybe he decreased the other teams ability to score with blocks and steals...

There are other factors to consider.

You make a good point about lead rebounders, but it contradicts itself in the Ben Wallace argument you made. And Marcus Camby plays with Nene and Anthony.

[AHF]

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That's if you suggest that there's a static number of rebounds per game.

Maybe the addition of Wallace improved the teams ability to score (Increasing the FG% and decreasing the Rebs) or maybe he decreased the other teams ability to score with blocks and steals...

There are other factors to consider.

You make a good point about lead rebounders, but it contradicts itself in the Ben Wallace argument you made. And Marcus Camby plays with Nene and Anthony.

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The Ben Wallace argument I made was that before Rasheed Wallace joined the Pistons, Ben Wallace averaged over 15 rpg and led the league. After the Pistons improved their rebounding with Rasheed, Ben's RPG dropped to over 12 and he never led the league again.

Camby does play with Nene and Anthony but neither is a great rebounder. Nene's career high is 7.0 rpg. Carmelo's career high is 6.0 rpg. Fine for a SF, but not anything to write home about. Camby is the only big rebounder on that team.

[AtLaS]

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Have you ever PLAYED basketball??

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Actually I think you've never played basketball. Just like AHF's example of Ben/Rasheed, it's the same deal with Hakeem/Sampson. The next season after Sampson went down, Hakeem all of a sudden averaged a career high in rebounds and rebounded better than his first 3 years, and continued to do so for the next 5 years..

It's a horrible argument, and it doesn't really help your point.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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I guess we can go back and forth on this one....I went to Duke, graduated 2002...I had the benefit of going to over 50+ Cameron indoor games...I saw Brand upclose for two years and Boozer upclose for 3 years.

My only gripe with Horford is that he's not worth a number 3. He's not a dominant low post scorer. I watched a number of Florida games and never once did I think Horford is the number 3 player in the draft...heck there were times I thought he was the 3rd best player on Florida...

The comparisons to Boozer/Brand are laughable. I saw them both live while at Duke, and trust me...Horford is not even close to their level. Brand's low post game was WAY more polished than Horford. Brand's footwork while in the low post was impeccible...it's like he was tap dancing when he backed his man down. Brand had the hook shot, up and under, fadeaway jumper in the corner, etc while in the post. Even on a team with Battier, Will Avery, Trajan Langdon and Corey Maggette, Brand LOOKED like the best player on the court, unlike Horford who never remotely looked dominant.

While Boozer didnt have the full assortment of low post moves as Brand, he was still very polished and very fluid. I knew Boozer was going to be a solid player. Horford on the hand is very mechanical and borderline clumsy while in the post...he'll pretty much use the same two shots: left handed hook and right handed hook. He has a good mid range game but he rarely uses this shot while he's in the post. Horford reminds me of Dale Davis...solid player, but I dont see him ever making it to any All-Star games. He'll be a solid double double guy...as well as Sheldon Williams. Horford and Williams will be similar to what Dale Davis and Antonio Davis brought to the Pacers in the mid to late 90's. Nothing wrong with that. Still, I think a 3 is too high to get a Dale Davis type of player.

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It's not about how loaded a team is talent wise, it's about how UNSELFISH the Florida Gators were. First of all, they had three top 10 picks so as impressive as that Duke team was, UF is better. UF is the first team to win back to back championships with the same starting 5 and they were able to do this because in addition to talent, they were UNSELFISH which is why all five starters scored in double figures. Also the reason why UF led the nation in FG% two straight years.

To say Horford was never the best player on the floor is absurd. In addition to being the most consistent Gator on the back to back championship team, he was the go to guy and flat out dominant player with an NBA body and mindset that he brought night after night.

With his physique and skill, it was like the case of Calvin Johnson, you knew he had a future at the next level.

Now obviously Horford didn't dominate like CJ, but the point was only a fool would suggest he didn't have a future at the next level after watching him play.

As much as Oden shined on the big stage, Horford was just as sensational. And he probably had more baskets outside of GARBAGE TIME.

I used to be a hardcore Duke fan and I don't see what you're seeing if you don't see the similarities between Elton Brand and Horford.

Both are guys who although physically imposing are very nimble with the ability to knock down a 15 footer.

The only difference between Brand and Horford is that he took more shots. Look at the FG% which is a much more telling stat than PPG.