I guess that "Monday trade" isnt happening

[NJHAWK]

I was wondering what it could be all weekend. Oh well.

[BHayley]

Come on man...

Billy Knight doesn't make many meaningful trades (Besides JJ) for the Hawks. Only those meaningless trades like 2nd rounder for AJ

[NJHAWK]

The trade for Smoove was a pretty good one. Espec. when you consider it followed up the miracle of getting rid of the Ratliff/Reef and Big Hog contracts. My God who would want any of those guys now. lol Poke fun of BK all you want but he has made some crafty moves as well.

[BHayley]

Lol, I am in full support of Woody and BK. I think they get hit way too much in the media.

However,

I can guarantee that 99 % of the people on this board are frustrated at one time or another that BK doesn't make a trade. EVERY time we have the opportunity it seems we just don't make a trade.

How did we get that Smith pick again? The 3 bad contracts for Rasheed and the pick? Or that was part of the Detroit trade, right?

I actually though Glenn Rob, Shareef, Terry, and Ratliff would take us deep into the playoffs. D@mnit

[jezmund]

*Rasheed Wallace for Josh Smith

*Al Harrington for Acie Law

*Boris Diaw / Money / Next years unknown pick for JJ

*Jon Barry for Tyronn Lue

Those are 4 good trades right there.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

That harington trade also net us Acie Law; that's pretty good also.

[Dejay]

I guess that makes up for....

Childress over Deng, Iguodala, and Al Jefferson

MW over (insert point guard here)

Shelden over Roy, Foye

Then again, no it doesn't.

[Nicholasp27]

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I guess that makes up for....

Childress over Deng, Iguodala, and Al Jefferson

MW over (insert point guard here)

Shelden over Roy, Foye

Then again, no it doesn't.

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chill provides more 'wins' than deng/iggy

EVERYONE said mw was best pick/prospect at the time; and we now have LAW, so it won't matter anymore

shelden fit a need, roy/foye are sgs that would get no time on our team

so yeah, jj for hardly anything does make up for it

[SmooveTheFuture]

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I guess that makes up for....

Childress over Deng, Iguodala, and Al Jefferson

MW over (insert point guard here)

Shelden over Roy, Foye

Then again, no it doesn't.

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You are totally right there is no way anyone can sit and here defend these botched drafts. Childress I will let that one slid because he took Smith with the 17th pick. But there is no excuse in the world to draft Marvin Williams over franchise point guards when we had 6 forwards already on the roster at the time. If we had went PG like we should have we probably be a playoff team and not have to worry about all this can we make the playoffs and lottery every year. Shelden Williams god I dont know which was worse IMO the guy is a late 1st rounder to 2nd round pick. It was a huge reach and we also guarnteed to take him 5th haha thats funny. Roy and Foye are combo guardS JUST LIKE LAW. Who can play PG/SG I consider both those guys much better then Law in every way as well. There is no excuse taking a Antonio/Dale Davis type role player who is already 24 years old with the 5th overall pick. I will easily take 2 secound round picks who are PFs and younger in Craig Smith and Paul Milsap over SpeadHead. I have said it many times the drafting of Marvin Williams and Shelden Williams have set this franchise back at least 2-3 years.

[Buzzard]

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But there is no excuse in the world to draft Marvin Williams over franchise point guards when we had 6 forwards already on the roster at the time.

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Chilz is a role player not a superstar. Smoove plays PF much better than SF because he does not have a good enough outside jumper, he does not create space, nor does he have the handles to get around the above average SF's in the league. So who does that leave for the other four SF's you say we had? Did they have superstar potential and I just cannot recall their names?

I hated the Shelden pick; but got over it. What the hell can I do about it but hope it works out? This post is like listening to someone still whining (crying all the time) about a ex that dumped them three years ago. Jeez, do always hold on to things you cannot do anything about for this long? You sound like one of those people that call their ex's and hangs up after they have broke up; because they cannot move on...

I think Marvin was a great pick and Shelden was a bad pick; but all I can do now is hope that somehow, someway for our teams sake they both work out. End of story man; both of those drafts are way, way over. Or do you keep posting this crap so you may one day be able to say, "I told you so". I do not think that is your reason. How can we forget what you have already said 1000 times over for the last two years? No, I think my 1st thought was the correct one; you are one of those whiny people that have yet to learn how to just let things go. Now go give your ex a call and hang up

[SmooveTheFuture]

The truth hurts doesnt it im just stating the facts thats all you can take it anyway you want it. Until this point I have not proven wrong and I will continue to bash the picks until something happens where they magically become good players. Your telling me the Marvin Williams pick was a good pick LOL we only passed on two of the top 5 point guards in the nba. One who got his team into the playoffs in his 2nd year in the league and 1st as a starter. What the hell has Marvin been doing except being a one dimenisonal goof ball who still looks awkard and clumsy at the age of 21. We had drafted Boris Diaw, Josh Childress, Josh Smith, Donta Smith and had Al Harrington on the team we decided to make the move that will haunt this franchise for years in taking Marvin WIlliams over CP3 and Deron WIliams. I will bet anything that Marvin never turns out to be as good as those guys he doesnt have the fire or heart in him. I remeber he once said he didnt watch or like basketball wat kind of star player says that kind of crap. If you think Marvin Williams was a good pick when we hads many forwards on the team and a HUGE NEED at pg with 3 studs staring at us in the face your freaking nuts. Im just saying the mistakes of BK have set this franchise back 2-3 years and those are the facts. If you dont like the facts then tough luck I dont know wat to tell you but you cant prove me otherwise it is wat it is. It sounds like you are the one in denial thinking that everything that BK and the Hawks have done is fine and dandy. If they were good selections we would have been in the playoffs already instead of havin the longest playoff drought of any current NBA team.We would be much sooo better had the right picks been made and thats what im stressing. Until Marvin Williams and Shelden Williams prove me wrong I will continue to talk about it because it is the truth. Dont deny the truth. Marvin has done nothing to prove he was worth the 2nd overall pick all he can do is shoot and not at a good% great pick hah funny. Yet we just give him a starting spot over a player who deserves and earned it more om Josh Childress. Keep telling yourself it was a great pick. Just bout every analyst in the country thinks the opposite. I guarntee you with CP3 or Deron we would have been a playoff team last year. When Marvin becomes more then Akward clumsy looking 1 dimensional jump shooter come to talk me.

[Buzzard]

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The truth hurts doesnt it im just stating the facts thats all you can take it anyway you want it.

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You totally avoided the following truths, facts, and question in my post:

Chilz is a role player not a superstar. Smoove plays PF much better than SF because he does not have a good enough outside jumper, he does not create space, nor does he have the handles to get around the above average SF's in the league. So who does that leave for the other four SF's you say we had? Did they have superstar potential and I just cannot recall their names?

Did that hurt your feelings? Come on back and cry some more...

[SmooveTheFuture]

I did not mention SF I said forwards learn to read its easy. Ok I will say again for you slow I know its hard for you but try I know you can do it. Boris Diaw, Al Harrington, Donta Smith, Josh Childress and Josh Smith were all forwards to some degree. Now our sorry azz pgs were Royal Ivey (2nd yr player) tyron lue and tony delk (lol). Now you tell me what was our bigger need I know it wasnt forward thats for sure. You say Marvin Williams has superstar potential really where the hell is it ? A franchise point guard means much more to a team then some overhyped wing player. Who lacks NBA skills. This Is the same Marvin Williams who wasnt good enought to go pro after High School in one of the biggest High School drafts in NBA history. Why didnt he pro ? Because he knew he wouldnt gotten picked until late def. not even close to a lottery pick. Do you realize that Marvin Williams is a product of the Hype Machine that fans like you fall into. This guy was the same guy who came off the bench for a national title team he wasnt good enough to start. He has a good few games in the NCAA tourney and now he has superstar potential hahaha give me a break he did this vs college players not in the NBA. Marvin has yet to show nothing at all why he was chosen 2nd overall. Way to dodge all my questions too..

[Buzzard]

Your quote:

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I did not mention SF I said forwards learn to read its easy. Ok I will say again for you slow I know its hard for you but try I know you can do it. Boris Diaw, Al Harrington, Donta Smith, Josh Childress and Josh Smith were all forwards to some degree. Now our sorry azz pgs were Royal Ivey (2nd yr player) tyron lue and tony delk (lol). Now you tell me what was our bigger need I know it wasnt forward thats for sure. You say Marvin Williams has superstar potential really where the hell is it ? A franchise point guard means much more to a team then some overhyped wing player. Who lacks NBA skills. This Is the same Marvin Williams who wasnt good enought to go pro after High School in one of the biggest High School drafts in NBA history. Why didnt he pro ? Because he knew he wouldnt gotten picked until late def. not even close to a lottery pick. Do you realize that Marvin Williams is a product of the Hype Machine that fans like you fall into. This guy was the same guy who came off the bench for a national title team he wasnt good enough to start. He has a good few games in the NCAA tourney and now he has superstar potential hahaha give me a break he did this vs college players not in the NBA. Marvin has yet to show nothing at all why he was chosen 2nd overall. Way to dodge all my questions too..

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My Quote:

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Chilz is a role player not a superstar. Smoove plays PF much better than SF because he does not have a good enough outside jumper, he does not create space, nor does he have the handles to get around the above average SF's in the league. So who does that leave for the other four SF's you say we had? Did they have superstar potential and I just cannot recall their names?

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Harrington was gone. Now you do not have to believe me; just check our roster and see if he is still there. Diaw is gone. Again; check our roster. Donta was cut; check our roster. That pretty much leaves Chilz a role player and Smoove a truer power forward than a small forward. No superstar SF in this whole group. MWill was picked 2nd to be a superstar. No one in your group was or ever will be even an all-star small forward.

Yes we needed a point guard, yes we needed a center, but what you do not seem to comprehend; is we also needed a small forward that could put up 20 a game. By the list above that you provided, we still did not have that player. Harrington was gone at the end of the year and you can act stupid all day long and not believe it; but check our roster. He was traded and he also is a better PF than SF. Harrington defines tweener; can't hang with the Rasheed's and cannot guard the Jefferson's and Peirce's of the world...

You do not believe Marvin will be a 20 pt a game player and I do. You think Smoove is a SF that can one day dribble around people, create space with his dribble, and shoot a jump shot. Other words, he will one day be like Paul Peirce, Shawn Marion, or Richard Jefferson. I don't and I am sorry if this hurts your feelings.

Smoove may one day be an All-Star at PF on athletic ability alone; but he will never be an All-Star small forward like Richard Jefferson, Shawn Marion, or Paul Peirce. If you cannot see this; you are just blind as bat. We needed a small forward when Marvin was drafted because BK knew Chilz and Smoove were not going to be All-Stars at that position.

MWill was rated BPA at a needed position. We had a chance to add a superstar to a position where we did not have a superstar. Period, that is the simple truth you claim to speak of but cannot see because of the twinkle in your eye you have for Smoove. This is why he was drafted. Now, I am going to leave you to cry some more in your beer...

[Packfill]

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I guess that makes up for....

Childress over Deng, Iguodala, and Al Jefferson

MW over (insert point guard here)

Shelden over Roy, Foye

Then again, no it doesn't.

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chill provides more 'wins' than deng/iggy

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Did you watch the playoffs? Deng carried Chicago. They WON a playoff series! The Hawks have won 70 total games during Chills tenure with the Hawks.

[NJHAWK]

This thread ventured away from the original intention. All I really wanted to know is what the hell happened to the trade that was supposed to go down and be announced Monday?

[sturt]

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I guess that makes up for....

Childress over Deng, Iguodala, and Al Jefferson

MW over (insert point guard here)

Shelden over Roy, Foye

Then again, no it doesn't.

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Not to pick on you, dejay, but people need a little sanity when it comes to this draft criticism.

It's the ultimate 20-20-hindsight proposition... just by the sheer mathematics/probabilities of it, there will ALWAYS be a player picked after Team X's guy who ends up with greater success.

And, thus, it's just shallow, hyper-critical thinking to measure a given pick entirely on the basis of whether your team was the one that ended up with a rookie of the year candidate.

I dare say that no one takes the crap for it, though, that Billy Knight takes.

But this isn't the same as being captain and drafting your team on the playground.

Why isn't it?

First, it's because your team has certain circumstances each off-season to address, and the player(s) you draft will almost invariably be drafted according to what those conditions are.

Don't miss this point, unless you want to blow-off this post... which, for some of you, is just as well if you would.

So the logical question is, "What has the circumstance been with the Atlanta Hawks the last four years that prompted BK to make the draft choices he made?"

Answer: We've just plain needed ASSETS... talented players that other teams would want... pieces that could allow BK to trade for other pieces that would fill other roles.

That's different than being on the cusp of playoff contention or in playoff contention, when you have one or two holes you specifically want to plug.

Why is that important?

It's important because it sets the philosophy/rationale for each draft... EVERY draft is a matter of "how much risk are you willing to take" with Player A, vs. B, vs. C, etc.

With the #5 or #6 or #8 pick, it's entirely reasonable to think that you may want to choose a "safer" pick... in that territory, it's at least as important NOT to pick that REAL DUD guy as it is to pick the real steal.

At #2 or #3, it's entirely reasonable to think you can be a little more aggressive... in that territory, you can almost be 100% confident that you're not going to get a dud, so you can launch out and get the guy you really think has the highest ceiling... that is, if you're simply trying to accumulate assets... OTOH, if you're on the cusp of the playoffs, you may err on the side of filling a hole in your roster, so your choice would be more position-specific.

Make sense? It should.

And, prepare the rotten tomatoes... it's EXACTLY the rationale that BK has followed through his history... it's just not that hard to see, but everyone takes such pride in being smarter than BK, it is too hard to see I guess...

Childress was one of three guys all grouped together in most 2004 pre-draft analysis... he was the oldest and deemed the safest pick of the three. BK, remember is accumulating assets, so he goes safer instead of riskier.

At #17 that year, there are at least as many duds as there are contributors... he goes riskier instead of safer with Josh Smith. Obviously, his bet was well-informed and paid off.

The following year, he has the #2 pick... he goes with the guy who UNIVERSALLY is considered to have the most upside in the whole draft... the guy who for several weeks was considered neck-and-neck with Bogut for the #1 pick even. Chris Paul or Deron Williams would have made sense, except that BK wasn't on the cusp of the playoffs... he wasn't attempting to fill a hole in the roster per se... and under those circumstances, when you have a choice of a tall player with a reputation for a great upside, and a short player with a reputation for a good upside, it ought to be hard to criticize choosing the former b/c it's the pick any GM in that situation would make (... ought to be, but hasn't been).

Then, at #5, BK is getting closer to seeing the playoffs on the horizon... he likes a couple of point guards in free agency who he intends to pursue, and so in the draft, he goes "safe" instead of "risky" at #5, and simultaneously also tries to fill a roster hole with Shelden.

Unfortunately, as we all know, the projected starting five for the Hawks barely ever gets to be on the floor at the same time that season.

Which brings us to today... evidently, the vast majority of Hawk fans understand the rationale behind the picks BK made Thursday night, but suffice it to say, he was filling roster holes with both the #3 and the #11.

I realize that this diatribe does nothing for the many who are so steeped in their tradition of butchering Billy Knight... nothing other than get them in a hissy-fit b/c they despise the man so much... my guess, probably b/c he actually is so much LIKE THEM in his confidence in his own opinions, and callousness toward others who think they're as smart as him... and, not being in a seat of power, that can really stick in the crawl of those Joe Fans.

But PERHAPS there are a few souls on the fence of that debate who can see with greater clarity, and can understand why/how BK has been SO miscast, EVEN in the hyper-critical mob's representation of his draft decisions.

The man certainly isn't perfect: has certainly stubbed his toe on a few deals, and nearly broke his entire leg with the pursuit of Martin as a player to build around... thank goodness, the next time he pursued a player with that kind of vigor, he got it VERY VERY right (JJ).

Hope this helps.

[sturt]

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This thread ventured away from the original intention. All I really wanted to know is what the hell happened to the trade that was supposed to go down and be announced Monday?

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I think we all got excited just at the notion of (a) Sothron's original suggestion that there could be, and (b) that the PC ended up getting scheduled for July 2, vis-a-vis in the new contract year... putting those together, there was reason for suspicion.

But now that it's come and gone, the next "something" is probably more significant than the dawn of a new contract year... that is, of course, in the next several days the NBA will announce what the salary cap is to be for 2007-08. Can't say for certain that it will mean anything to the Hawks necessarily, but league-wide, that logically should set in motion some dominoes that have been waiting to fall.

[Sothron]

Yes, establishing the cap will have ramifications esp. for those teams worried about the luxury tax. FWIW I still expect at least one trade before training camp starts with so many expiring contracts on our team and the glut at PG.

[OdentonFalcon]

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Yes, establishing the cap will have ramifications esp. for those teams worried about the luxury tax. FWIW I still expect at least one trade before training camp starts with so many expiring contracts on our team and the glut at PG.

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What I find funny is that now we have a glut at PG. Seems like before the draft, all everybody wanted was PG's. Maybe I am wrong but I really feel like we are going to be in the play-offs this year. Look at the teams we beat last year. We beat good teams. I also expect a trade before training camp.