Shelden, Horford, BK and Yi!!!

[Wurider05]

Why draft a guy to play another position. What if shelden comes back a beast like the way he finished the season. We should have drafted Yi. With all the crap about Shelden on this board you guys got to remember that he was only a rookie last season and that he was injured a good portion of the season. If he comes back a beast then we [censored] up the 3rd pick this year. No matter how NBA ready someone is made out to be you still have to learn. And how much of his development was held back by Woody. You can't learn unless you are in the game. Drafting Horford to play out of position is stupid. What if he can't play center just like Joe couldn't play point, Josh Smith couldn't play the 2. What the hell is going on here!! I will state that BK had never been wrong on talent and his talent always progresses steadily. Look at CHillz, Smoove, and Marvin. Each one has gotten better each year they have been in the league. SO why do you guys think that Shelden will be any different. I am not saying that Yi would have been a 25 ppg scorer but his upside potential coupled with the fact he can shoot the rock would have made us that much better considering the slashers that we have on this team. He could have spread that floor for us. I know that he is a forward but how many forwards have the skills that he has and could create the matchup problems. He could have played coming off the bench SF, PF, and Center. Matchup possibilities could have been endless.

I like Horford but he was the wrong pick for us and if Shelden improves his game like the others did we will have an additional glut of similiar players with the addition of Horford. Remember Shelden was a better college player statistically than Horford. As a Hawks fan I hope that they both are beasts next season but somebody will ride the pine more often than not. I am not going to constantly run Horford into the ground like people do Marvin. I just can't see how this is going to work out.

[Nicholasp27]

again, horford played CENTER in college

he should automatically be considered a center in nba, except his height, which isn't much off from most centers...his weight is good compared to centers and so is his strength

he is a CENTER, not a pf

[frosgrim]

I agree Nick, Horford is the same height as Alonzo, one of the best centers over the past 20 years. Zo played around 260 lbs, Horf is 15 lbs under that but is also 21. To think that he can't add 15 lbs over the next few years is ridiculous.

Is Horf as good as Zo? We have to wait and see, but to say Horf isn't a center based on height and weight is being narrow minded and ignores the actual measurements of other centers around the NBA.

Regarding Sheldon, yes he'll play center for us as well. But, if you paid attention to last year, you will understand that depth is a necessity in the NBA (this isn't to you Nick but the nay-sayers). Second, if Sheldon does develop into a beast, then we have a very valuable trade commodity. All this talk needs to die down IMO and wait until we see what we have on the court. The season will answer some of these ifs, what-ifs, and I think statements that are flung around like rag dolls on this board right now.

[Nicholasp27]

smoove/shelden/horford/zaza will solo thrown in there at times will be an EXCELLENT big man rotation if they all show up and improve

and i think horford will do better guarding the

kristics/dalemberts/chandlers/boguts/wallaces/webbers/obertos/dampiers/okafors/blounts/cambys/millers/thomases of the league than the

duncans/jamisons/durants/marions/garnetts/randolphs/boshes/brands/howards/odoms of the league

so center, WHERE HE PLAYED IN COLLEGE, makes sense for him

al is .25" taller than amare

he weighs 13 pounds more coming out than amare did

amare has 1" longer wingspan and 1.5" taller standing reach (but he was wearing .5" higher shoes)

and amare is all-nba center

also look at al dimensions vs a mourning, etc

al is a center; that's where he's played, it's where he will continue to play

[Sasha_Volkov]

Uhhh, Yi is flopping all over the place this week. Thank God we didn't fall for the hype.

[Diesel]

Before you continue this sham....

Zo is a once in a lifetime player. IF somebody was 6'7, 220 lbs and was a rebounder in college, does that mean he's the next Dennis Rodman??

Hell no and to make the association is a bad joke. Players are unique. Horford is no more Zo than Law is. Zo was a dominant force in college. Horford was NOT... As much as people talk about how great Horford is, he was not a volume scorer and he was not a lock down defender so what are you talking about. It's hype.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

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again, horford played CENTER in college

he should automatically be considered a center in nba, except his height, which isn't much off from most centers...his weight is good compared to centers and so is his strength

he is a CENTER, not a pf

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SW played center in college full time and not with another center beside him....and he's significantly stronger.

NOBODY lists Horford as a center. Not one person. Only Pf or Pf/C.

You shouldn't have to make a (lame) argument for a player being a center. It should be evident to all. Period.

W

[Admin]

I thought it stood for center ... maybe not.

[leftwich]

Quote:

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Before you continue this sham....

Zo is a once in a lifetime player. IF somebody was 6'7, 220 lbs and was a rebounder in college, does that mean he's the next Dennis Rodman??

Hell no and to make the association is a bad joke. Players are unique. Horford is no more Zo than Law is. Zo was a dominant force in college. Horford was NOT... As much as people talk about how great Horford is, he was not a volume scorer and he was not a lock down defender so what are you talking about. It's hype.

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If you can't understand why Horford wasn't a volume scorer then you're a f-ing moron, haha case closed on that one.

[Diesel]

Why is that guys like Boozer can play along side Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Duhon, and still be a volume scorer?

Or why a guy like Laettner could play along side Grant HIll, Bobby Hurley, Thomas Hill, Billy Macaffrey, and Antonio Lang and still be a volume scorer?

Or why a guy like Larry Johnson can play alongside of guys like Stacey Augmon, Ackles, Anderson Hunt, and Greg Anthony and still be a volume scorer?

Or how Sam Perkins could play alongside of Jordan, Worthy, and Black and still be a volume scorer??

The problem my friend is that you don't understand the college game. There have been plenty of volume scorers on stacked teams. Either you have it or you don't. There are no excuses... You show me a guy who can't get 20 points as a college player, and you have shown me a guy who probably won't do it as a pro either. That's the bottom line.

[saloonyk8]

Quote:

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Why is that guys like Boozer can play along side Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Duhon, and still be a volume scorer?

Or why a guy like Laettner could play along side Grant HIll, Bobby Hurley, Thomas Hill, Billy Macaffrey, and Antonio Lang and still be a volume scorer?

Or why a guy like Larry Johnson can play alongside of guys like Stacey Augmon, Ackles, Anderson Hunt, and Greg Anthony and still be a volume scorer?

Or how Sam Perkins could play alongside of Jordan, Worthy, and Black and still be a volume scorer??

The problem my friend is that you don't understand the college game. There have been plenty of volume scorers on stacked teams. Either you have it or you don't. There are no excuses... You show me a guy who can't get 20 points as a college player, and you have shown me a guy who probably won't do it as a pro either. That's the bottom line.

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Didn't Vince Carter avg like 14.5ppg at UNC and then 18 in the NBA as a rookie?

[Guest Walter]

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I thought it stood for center ... maybe not.

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We also thought it stood for "center" for SW.

BTW, most outside atlanta don't include the "C", just the "Pf". "Pf/C" is VERY generous and not very likely.

W

[DavidSomerset]

Al Jefferson, Amare, and Dwight Howard are referred to as PF/C's pretty often...They can all man the C position, can't they?

[TexasPete]

You and the entire Yi crowd will be shown to be basketball novices in short order. Again, he was dominated on defense again by the lousy Mavericks summer team. Most of the Mavericks team will not be anywhere near the NBA next season and he looked like crap.

This isn't just rust. The fact that he cannot hold his own defensively against non-NBA players is a sign he is overmatched. Yi will never whiff an All Star game, he is the product of a marketing machine that BK did not fall for this time.

He is having trouble getting shots off inside, has weak hands, and will get destroyed against real competition because he looks lousy now. He apparently wanted more this year.

He simply cannot defend at the NBA level and that will kill him. The initial post was just piss poor. Conley should have been the choice but Horford is light years better than Yi Jianlin.

I'm going to remind the Yi zealots of their lack of good basketball sense on a regular basis because you have all been advocating a guy you don't know jack about. Just like Walter with Sene last year, except Walter didnt learn a damn thing.

[Diesel]

I didn't say a guy who can't "Average" 20. I said a guy who can't score 20...

Carter was a 59% scorer which was rare for a swingman and he played next to a beast scoringwise (Jamison) but he still managed to get more than 2 20point games.

[frosgrim]

Quote:

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Quote:

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I thought it stood for center ... maybe not.

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We also thought it stood for "center" for SW.

BTW, most outside atlanta don't include the "C", just the "Pf". "Pf/C" is VERY generous and not very likely.

W

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NBA.com has Horford listed as forward/center (link) link

Draft express also has forward/center, but they believe that he'll play center in the NBA once he learns new techniques. They also mention he has all the "defensive fundamentals in the world" and should make the adjustment (link) link

The hyperbole being spewed in this thread is silly. Just because Yi was a very intriguing prospect, and I guy I supported drafting, does not mean that Horf is a bad player. It looks to me after reading up on Horf and watching what he does, he is an NBA center.

D- you use the comparison to all-star players all the time, so either I can use it, or you can't. The street goes both ways. But here are some other guys with similar sizes: Okafor, Magloire, Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace (played a lot of center for the Pistons this year), Theo Ratliff. Need I go on? This is just a partial list of some all-stars and some that aren't but all are solid players.

I believe Horf has it in him to be an All-star, heck he might very well be the first Atl Hawk drafted to play in an All-star game that was actually drafted by the Hawks since Kevin Willis. Let me clarify this a little, if I had to bet, I would say Smoove will make it before Horf, but that isn't a lock...

[saloonyk8]

Quote:

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I didn't say a guy who can't "Average" 20. I said a guy who can't

score

20...

Carter was a 59% scorer which was rare for a swingman and he played next to a beast scoringwise (Jamison) but he still managed to get more than 2 20point games.

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Valid. I personally don't think Horford is going to be a 20-10 guy, but I would be happy if he got 15-8 and played close to the basket bringing defense and a low post offensive presence to the game...at least that's the hope.

[Diesel]

I think he's closer to a 8/8 guy (30 Minutes, after 3 years)... I mean, coming off his Junior year, he's 13/9 in college with only 2 20+ point games and they played some real cupcakes. You can talk about his midrange shooting all you like. In college against inferior competition, he should have a nice face up midrange game (Marvin had a good post up game)... but when you play the real deal, either you can score or you can't. I don't think he's a scorer. He's a Dale Davis. Go to Clemson and ask about Davis' scoring. Davis also looked like he had tools in college, but like Al, he he had a bad Free throw percentage... He actually scored more ppg than AL though..

[Wurider05]

I agree Diesel I think that the thngs we drafted him for are the things that he wasn't really known for. Shelden had a reputation as a defensive big guy hence the name "Landlord" and he had the statistics to back up the name. I just haven't seen where Horford was feared like Shelden was. I said it before and I will say it again. I like Horford and I hope that he does well but I just don't see him giving us what we need. What if he doesn't beat out Williams and ZaZa for the starting spot. Then what? Don't forget the ZaZa is improving as well.

[Diesel]

The Hype machine did a good job of exaggerating his body... by saying he's "the most NBA ready". In other words, he has good size and being in college another year won't make him any better than he is now... I think we fell for the trick. He didn't look good against real NBA quality Centers like Morris and Oden. He didn't stop real NBA quality Forwards like JWright and Thornton. All of these guys had close to career highs when playing UF. When you play Center in a zone, all defensive assignments that score inside are your responsibility and he just didn't do enough to warrant us picking him for his defense. Offensively, again, not a volume scorer. I could get excited if he was like Shareef coming out of Cal, but he's not. I could get excited if he was like Okafor coming out of college, but he's not. The point is that he has the body but not the game of "the most NBA ready player" and because of that, I fear that we have a guy who could be a good rebounder but not much else.

I want point out the reasons why we should have gone with allstar potential... because it's obvious.

However, I will say this.. Shelden is due. If we play him at Center, I think he will be just what we need... Not a big time scorer, but a guy who plays good positional defense and can rebound. I realized how good he can be believe it or not when he matchedup with the Wizards and the Cavs... Against the Wizards, he just pummeled E. Thomas and Brendan Heywood.. Which is why I had to wonder about people who wanted to trade for Heywood. Shelden pushed Heywood all over the floor that night. Then a few games later, we played Cleveland (fighting for PO position) and he was matchedup up with Gooden and later Varejo... He pushed Gooden all around the court and He played a very physical game with Varejo and Big Z... Even though Varejo scored, it was a hard game for him. You could see Shelden leaning on him. I think the other games were against the Celtics, but that's not saying much.. I think Jefferson got hurt in the middle of the game and he matched with Powe and that other guy...I can't remember if Shelden played that whole game.

The point is that with Shelden's skillset already on the team, getting AL was duplication without much progress.