A question for Daddy D (that's Diesel to you)

[gsuteke]

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Do you think Horford will be an Allstar for Atlanta?

What about Yi.. Would he have been an allstar for Atlanta?

That's the only question that really matters. Horford is a PF, probably not a Center. Horford is not a great defender nor is he a volume scorer in college.

What's there to talk about?

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We should have drafted Conley....

man I'm getting tired of this same stupid argument we have on this board year upon year because our GM won't address problem areas.

[Diesel]

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Horford = Horance Grant. I like Horace Grant, but I don't draft him 3rd overall to play NBA center next to Josh Smith when I'm the 4th worst team and my two stars do NOT measure up to the league's elite. No way.

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And don't forget when you are the worst scoring team in the game..

[Diesel]

Conley being the "best PG in the draft" was a manufactured lie given by the hype machine.

Come on, every workout he had, there were problems reported:

1. Out of shape.

2. Can't shoot.

He's a 69% FT shooter, that means that his midrange game is bad.

The only thing that he has going for him is the fact that he did well in the tourney AND Tony Parker led the Spurs to the championship.

People actually believe that he can be Tony Parker. However, Tony Parker has Duncan. That means alot. Without Duncan, Parker becomes Knight. Hell, even Speedy and Jacque Vaughn play good next to Duncan.

These are the PGs that Conley remind me of:

Brevin Knight.

Jacque Vaughn.

Allen Ray.

Speedy Claxton.

Kyle Lowry

etc...

[gsuteke]

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Conley being the "best PG in the draft" was a manufactured lie given by the hype machine.

Come on, every workout he had, there were problems reported:

1. Out of shape.

2. Can't shoot.

He's a 69% FT shooter, that means that his midrange game is bad.

The only thing that he has going for him is the fact that he did well in the tourney AND Tony Parker led the Spurs to the championship.

People actually believe that he can be Tony Parker. However, Tony Parker has Duncan. That means alot. Without Duncan, Parker becomes Knight. Hell, even Speedy and Jacque Vaughn play good next to Duncan.

These are the PGs that Conley remind me of:

Brevin Knight.

Jacque Vaughn.

Allen Ray.

Speedy Claxton.

Kyle Lowry

etc...

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stop being such a damn conspiracist. Conley was the best pure PG in the draft.

address something between the PG and Center Billy, pick one and be done with it for christ's sake!

[AHF]

Just as a general comment, I think the idea behind the integer system makes sense in terms of finding people that fit the team needs and can play multiple positions, etc. but I find the whole idea a little too arbitrary.

A team with:

Ron Harper - 2.0

Michael Jordan - 2.0

Scottie Pippen - 3.0

Charles Barkley - 3.5

Karl Malone - 4.0

is mismatched at basically every combination of position other than 2/3.

It would be a favorite to win an NBA championship, though, and would be hella, hella better than:

Dan Dickau - 1.0

Kerry Kittles - 2.0

Bruce Bowen - 3.0

Chris Wilcox - 4.0

Shawn Bradley - 5.0

This isn't any comment on the application of the system to the Hawks' team but is just a comment on the idea that you can sum up the value and cohesiveness of guys with an integer system.

[gsuteke]

that's an extreme example.

[Diesel]

Do you not believe that some players meteoric rise is not do to media hype??

All year long, Critt and definitely Law got more conversation than Conley. Then here after afew good games in the tourney, Law is "the best PG in the Draft"...??? Excuse me but WTH?

Yi received some hype, but nothing compared to Conley and Horford. I mean, they make Horford sound like superman. A master of defense and a post threat everytime he touches the ball. Yet, when you watch him... YARN...

[SmooveTheFuture]

What is this nonsense that Smith cant play the 3? He played the 3 his whole life before he got into the NBA and would have been playing it still if not for Marvin Williams. He was projected to be SF and was compared to Vince Carter with more hear. How can you sit here and say he is just a PF when he lacks any kind of Post up moves right now. Your telling me Marvin Williams and his fragile body can play the 4 but Smith cant play the 3? His handles have/improving and so his jump shot. Look at that career high game against the Wolves where he was 10/10 from the outside before he missed that was a SF skillset which he showed he can do. I dont see how Marvin is this great Natual SF but Smith cant play the 3 at all thats ridculous. Last time I checked AK47 went to the allstar game as a SF and Smith is light years ahead of this guy.

[gsuteke]

when you put him at SF he's an average player. when he's playing the 4 he's a difference maker.

I could choke Roy Hibbert today if I saw him on the street. WTF was he thinking?

[gsuteke]

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What is this nonsense that Smith cant play the 3? He played the 3 his whole life before he got into the NBA and would have been playing it still if not for Marvin Williams. He was project to be SF and was compared to Vince Carter with more hear. How can you sit here and say he is just a PF when he lacks any kind of Post up moves right now. Your telling me Marvin Williams and his fragile body can play the 4 but Smith cant play the 3? His handles have/improving and so his jump shot. Look at that career high game against the Wolves where he was 10/10 from the outside before he missed that was a SF skillset which he showed he can do. I dont see how Marvin is this great Natual SF but Smith cant play the 3 at all thats ridculous. Last time I checked AK47 went to the allstar game as a SF and Smith is light years ahead of this guy.

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that's a great comparison. LOL

[SmooveTheFuture]

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when you put him at SF he's an average player. when he's playing the 4 he's a difference maker.

I could choke Roy Hibbert today if I saw him on the street. WTF was he thinking?

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I disagree I think he is a much better overall player and SF then Marvin Williams so if I guess your saying Marvin Williams is a below average player. AK47 went to the allstar game one year being a SF him and SMith have almost idencital games. Neither of them are great shooters right now and have great ball handling skills. Smith is improving every year and he has been working out with all kinds of veterans. If Marvin Williams can play SF in the NBA so can Smith because right Marvin Williams does one thing shoot jumpers thats it.

[gsuteke]

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when you put him at SF he's an average player. when he's playing the 4 he's a difference maker.

I could choke Roy Hibbert today if I saw him on the street. WTF was he thinking?

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I disagree I think he is a much better overall player and SF then Marvin Williams so if I guess your saying Marvin Williams is a below average player. AK47 went to the allstar game one year being a SF him and SMith have almost idencital games. Neither of them are great shooters right now and have great ball handling skills. Smith is improving every year and he has been working out with all kinds of veterans. If Marvin Williams can play SF in the NBA so can Smith because right Marvin Williams does one thing shoot jumpers thats it.

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this conversation has nothing to do with Marvin Williams.

Josh Smith cannot defend the 3 effeciently. period. that statement is accurate as of the end of last season.

[Diesel]

Sure, MCJ was a good distributor.. When you're on a team full of college allstars and you have one of the best bigs in the history of college basketball, you better be a good distributor. However, that doesn't make him the best PG...especially not for our needs. You see, we need more than just distribution, we need a PG who can score when called on to score. Conley is undependable at that.

I truly believe that Law was the BEST PG in the draft and definitely the best for us... with Critt being a close second. But we will see.

[gsuteke]

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Sure, MCJ was a good distributor.. When you're on a team full of college allstars and you have one of the best bigs in the history of college basketball, you better be a good distributor. However, that doesn't make him the best PG...especially not for our needs. You see, we need more than just distribution, we need a PG who can score when called on to score. Conley is undependable at that.

I truly believe that Law was the BEST PG in the draft and definitely the best for us... with Critt being a close second. But we will see.

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and that is he can get into the paint. Conley is awesome at getting into the paint and scoring in traffic.

that is something the Hawks are sorely lacking right now.

I can find a thread where I got into it with Exodus over Joe Johnson being a glorified jumpshooter. right now we have nobody that can collapse the defense on a roster full of jumpshooters. that ain't the best combination.

[Diesel]

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Yi received just as much hype with far less actual game footage

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If Yi had recieved as much hype as either of the other two, he would have easily been drafted ahead of them. Hype is not speculation, Hype is exaggeration and redundancy. There was no exaggeration about Yi's game. He's 7 foot. He's 240+. He's fast. He's got good offensive ability... blah blah blah.

What is the hype stated about Yi redundantly??

In Conley's case it was "Best PG in the draft"... That's BS. He can't shoot. This was proven in Orlando. IN the Milwaukee workout and In the Atlanta Workout. The excuse machine works in conjunction with the hype machine and I heard the excuse machine crank up... out of Sekou's mouth (of all places)... "He shot will easily improve". Or something like that... MORE BS... If it were so easy to improve a shot, he would have done it by now.

As for Horford, the hype stated "Most NBA ready Player" That's BS. What exactly did he do against NBA quality players. I know Morris, Oden, Thornton, and Wright had career days against him. He's only gone over 20 three times. He's not a great defender. He's only played in the zone. How is that most NBA ready? If I had to argue, I would say the most NBA ready player is either Law, Thornton, or Fazekas... and that's basically because they have the most experience especially at leadership. Has Horford ever been a leader anywhere? To my recollection, he only carried his team 1 time.

So the hype machine gets measurements and bolster them and open up the echo chamber and says stuff over and over again until people really begin to believe it... I've watched it done over and over again. Horford is a great example of it. So is Marvin. If Yi had been hype like Horford, best believe he would have gone three!

[Diesel]

Conley was awesome at getting in the paint IN COLLEGE

With no dominant big playing underneath, Conley will have a hard time in the pros. First off, most pro PGs just don't allow it. Secondly, his size will play a role. Thirdly, he can't shoot his way into the paint.

Here's some homework. Check out Tyron Lue footage from Nebraska. Check out the kind of PG he used to be. He could get in the paint too...

Better yet, Jacque Vaughn at Kansas...

Getting into the paint at this level requires a big or size or shooting ability. Conley lacks all three.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Anyone who says Horford is a repeat of a skillset and turns around and says we should have gotten Yi is a HYPOCRITE

If anything, Yi is a guy who replicates a skillset. He is a FACE UP SWING MAN

Horford is a POST PLAYER. Sure Shelden Williams is a post player, but if you had Shelden Williams would you pass on Elton Brand just because he plays the same position?

Of course not. Clearly we needed an UPGRADE.

Yi is a pure 4 in the NBA. If he plays the 3 he would get abused off the dribble and at the 5, he would just get plain abused. Maybe one day he could put on the weight and get the basketball IQ to play the post defensively, but that's a huge if at this point.

Meanwhile Horford DOES play the post on both ends of the floor and he plays it exceptionally well. To the point where he was considered the consensus 2nd best post player in the draft.

And not 2nd best post player in a weak draft like the case with Shelden Williams behind a guy LaMarcus Aldridge at the time who was drawing Channing Frye comparisons. We're talking 2nd behind a potential once in a generation player like Greg Oden in a loaded draft.

[drzachary]

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this conversation has nothing to do with Marvin Williams.

Josh Smith cannot defend the 3 effeciently. period. that statement is accurate as of the end of last season.

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You don't get it, teke. In order to support the players you love, you have to slam the players you hate.

[drzachary]

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What I got from the move was Vanilla. Sure, i can stomach it.. BUT we just went into Cold Stone with $10.00 that we found and we came out with Vanilla. I have had Vanilla all my life Dr. Z... I wanted to try something that I have not had... A drafted allstar... But we got Vanilla.

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A cooking metaphor! I love it. It sounds like you're saying that it's better to be unorthodox than to be safe. That's a defensible point of view. However, to extend your metaphor a bit, I had some bacon ice cream once (with a cold green pea soup.) It was spectacular. I've also had cocktail sauce sorbet with oysters -- also wonderful. Then there was that squid ink ice cream.... Sometimes vanilla is better.

[ATLBob]

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Do you think Horford will be an Allstar for Atlanta?

What about Yi.. Would he have been an allstar for Atlanta?

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Discarding fan voting and focusing solely on performance, then yes, I absolutely think that Horford has a better chance at becoming an all-star than Yi.