You be the GM......

[leftwich]

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Dude, just because you gave a description of Tendex doesn't mean that it makes it relevant. There obviously are flaws to the system, such as an equal weight to points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. Same along the lines of turnovers, missed field goals, and missed freethrows. All of those categories are not equal in impact, so why are they given equal impact? Just defining a term doesn't exonerate it from criticism.

To be honest, I haven't really read this whole thread but I feel it should be known that defining something is not an argument. So by saying what Tendex is doesn't prove to be an argument and I don't see how this definition is relevant because it still has problems with its reliability.

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I'm not willing to support the tendex rating to my death, but simply saying "it's irrelevant because in my 30 years of watching basketball I've never heard of it" is a roundabout way of discounting it. If you've never heard of the tendex rating, you should know what you're arguing against.

Example: I don't like that flavor of ice cream. I've never heard of it.

That's the kind of thought process I had a problem with.

[leftwich]

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But then again, I still do not think the TENDEX is relevant at all. I will just watch the games, take a peek at the line, and figure out if I like a player or not from there. But I appreciate the offer to take a look at the site.

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And I hope you took me up on the offer, because if not you saying the tendex is not relevant goes hand in hand with you saying "I'm not open to anything I've never heard of."

There are actually far more valuable ways to analyze stats than the Tendex rating, and I haven't heard any of them from coaches, GMs, and reporters. In fact, I can't think of a time I've heard anything from the media more complicated than points per shot. I don't think the average fan cares to hear about formulas.

[Buzzard]

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but simply saying "it's irrelevant because in my 30 years of watching basketball I've never heard of it" is a roundabout way of discounting it.

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Here is the way I meant it;

in 30 years of watching and reading about basketball I have never heard a GM, Coach, Scout, or Writer mention it. The "me" part of this is not relevant; it is the "GM, Coach, Scout, or Writer" part that is relevant. With most of the relevance going of course to the Coaches, GM's, and Scouts.

If I followed every link that was posted on this site, I would never have time to work or sleep. If this TENDEX had some GM or coach praising it; I would probably look into it. But like I said, I have never heard one mention it as a tool they use.

[Buzzard]

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Example: I don't like that flavor of ice cream. I've never heard of it.

That's the kind of thought process I had a problem with.

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Its just stats in general. My brain works well with stats. They are logical and I have done them to death. When it comes to human beings, very few (if any) studies show real "proof" that something will happen with even a 75% certainty.

If you can't give me that; lets just flip a coin...

[Diesel]

Before we get started, let me say that I was originally going to post this to shut Buzzard up about not having seen a scout use Tendex... because, I remember hearing about the Heat and the Warriors using Tendex.

However, i came across this article...

Click here: Article.

BTW, the Article can still be used to shut Buzzard up..

However, I noticed something. Let's play that game from Stump the Schaub called FIND THE ERROR

Here's the Article:

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Miami Heat could find deals, duds in NBA Draft

Scouts' views might not jibe with ratings

By Dave Heeren

Special correspondent

Posted June 28 2007

The Heat changed its destiny, for better and worse, in the 2003 and 2004 drafts.

In 2003, the Heat, with the No. 5 selection, landed Marquette junior Dwyane Wade, regarded by the TENDEX rating system as the No. 1 player in college basketball. TENDEX is a formula for rating players based on 10 statistical categories. Most NBA scouts rated Wade in the low first round as a sophomore and the low lottery as a junior. Justifying the high TENDEX rating, Wade led the Heat to the NBA title three years later.

In 2004, in desperate need of a point guard to play right away next to Wade, the Heat opted to bypass Jameer Nelson, a top-10 rated player by TENDEX. The Heat instead chose high school swingman Dorell Wright.

Nelson has moved into the starting lineup for Orlando. Wright's potential probably won't be fulfilled until the window of championship opportunity closes for Shaquille O'Neal.

Last year, Brandon Roy had a much higher TENDEX rating than Adam Morrison. Charlotte drafted Morrison No. 3 overall, while TENDEX had him rated outside the lottery (No. 15 or lower). He struggled in his rookie season. Roy, the No. 6 pick, won Rookie of the Year.

For the Heat, this year could be similar to 2003 for Dallas. That year, the Mavericks drafted 6-6 swingman Josh Howard, underrated by the scouts, with pick No. 29. TENDEX had Howard ranked among the top 10 players and he proved TENDEX correct by becoming a standout for the Mavericks.

Today, with the Heat's No. 20 pick, there could be another underrated 6-6 swingman available, Morris Almond of Rice. TENDEX slots Almond at No. 7 overall with a rating similar to Howard's.

Also underrated, according to TENDEX, are Joakim Noah, Nick Fazekas, Julian Wright, Daequan Cook, Marcus Williams, Alando Tucker, Curtis Sumpter and Glen Davis.

Overrated players, based on TENDEX in comparison with scouts, are Brandan Wright, Jeff Green, Corey Brewer, Spencer Hawes, Thaddeus Young, Derrick Byars, Aaron Afflalo, Josh McRoberts and Kyle Visser.

In the TENDEX first round, Greg Oden moves ahead of Kevin Durant because he got his rating playing part of the season left-handed. With a healed right hand, he went 100 percent above the average for his position in the NCAAs. Plus, he's a center.

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Find the Error!

[Buzzard]

Diesel you are not going to shut me up. I majored in human services and then I worked with stats for four and a half years. The software app we used was SPSS. It is a really awesome tool for studying human behavior and showing tendencies. Like I said, I like stats because they are logical.

I just do not think stats are as relevant for projecting human behavior as they are for other things. Some people would argue that this scenario is relevant: a study shows a 30% higher chance for a child to be an alcoholic if born by two alcoholic parents.

What do you think? Should they have children? Should they only have one, two, or three? You tell me what they should do and if this is really important as far as the parents are concerned. I will tell you. The parents probably don't care. What it shows is a possible proof that alcoholism is inherited. It shows a tendency. This is not a real case study. There is one out there for this but I do not have time to look for it.

I am glad you found this article. It is a great one but as far as finding the error. I am at work and really do not have the time. Maybe later today; when I get off work...

[Diesel]

When I say Shut you up, my reference was specifically your claim that you have never heard of a GM or scout using TNDex. From the article, you can see that the Heat Scouts and GM used TNDEX. I can probably find the article that stats the same for the Warriors.

I'm sure that you will continue to talk... No doubt about that... I just want to hear something other than repetitious dialogs about your ignorance being a reason to discount the TNDEX.

[Guest Walter]

Bring something to the picnic before you complain about the spread.

I use all sorts of stats, numbers, articles. SOMEBODY also had to make you aware of Roland Ratings, PER, per48, particular articles, particular websites. It's not like all your WATCHING basketball learned you everything. Good grief what a sorry attempt at internet cred. "I hadn't heard of it before you". Well now you have Mr. ye ol' 30 years of basketball watching. You also have heard of an integer system (making it up yesterday as I went along) and (suprise, suprise) no scout to your knowledge has used it. Whatever.

W

[Guest Walter]

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My point was not that I had never heard of it until Walter; but it was

I have never heard a GM, coach, scout, or even a reporter citing the damn thing.

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...didn't show you everything. BTW, I have read reporters use TENDEX, I haven't heard of scouts, coaches, or GMs using any per48 stat EVER publically, and I use all sorts of stats, web sites, articles, etc. So what's your MFing point?!? You just didn't know about it until I pointed it out? MOST people would appreciate being lead to another source of information. But you? You act is if your "30 years of basketball watching" means [censored] on a basketball website where EVERYONE at least WATCHES basketball and your IGNORANCE about a subject means it must be bogus. You then completely show your ass about it. Get a life. AFter 30 years of anything you should know better.

W

[Guest Walter]

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Before we get started, let me say that I was originally going to post this to shut Buzzard up about not having seen a scout use Tendex... because, I remember hearing about the Heat and the Warriors using Tendex.

However, i came across this article...

Click here: Article.

BTW, the Article can still be used to shut Buzzard up..

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In 2003, the Heat, with the No. 5 selection, landed Marquette junior Dwyane Wade, regarded by the TENDEX rating system as the No. 1 player in college basketball.

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...basketball" don't make you as smart as you think. Just a smart ass.

W

[Buzzard]

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Bring something to the picnic before you complain about the spread.

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I asked for info that a professional used it. You act like I was wrong to for telling the truth, that I had never heard or read of a professional using it.

Hell Diesel had to go find a regional newspaper to find this. I guess not living in Florida and never reading this newspaper makes me wrong also. You need to get a life. Diesel brought the cite and you act like you did something...

Here is what you did:

I asked you to bring a cite or link that a professional used this and you ran like a dog with his tail between his legs...

[Plastic Man]

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I'm just saying he ain't as bad as people like to make him out to be...It would be completely irrational to label him a "bust" already...That was my point.

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I'm with you jdu. I don't understand the constant bashing of Marv by these Hawks "fans". A bust? I have seen nearly every game of Marvin as a Hawk, and I think there's plenty to be excited about.

Patience is a virtue.

[Buzzard]

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From the article, you can see that the Heat Scouts and GM used TNDEX.

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It is a good article on TENDEX but I do not see were it states the Heat scouts use it. All I see is were the reporter explains what TENDEX is and then how it had certain good players rated higher than the scouts before the draft. And also how some others they it was correct on were not so high on the TENDEX.

Maybe I am just splitting hairs but that is what cites and stats do. Neverless, it is still a good article on showing how TENDEX was right with these previous picks...

[AHF]

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http://bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/ratings.html

Now you've heard about it. What about the tendex rating is irrelevant?

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Just as a toal aside, that site is amazing for any UK fan. I have it under my favorites. (Not that subpage regarding the tendex and other ratings specifically, but the whole page on UK history and statistics).

[bfwolf]

Nobody was using statistical analysis to REALLY understand baseball until Bill James came along and Billy Beane's Oakland teams started putting up 90+ win seasons every year with a crappy payroll. The lesson: the so-called experts in sports are often anything but.