Answer to CoachX's question.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

So Diese, what player in the draft can do these things better then Al Horford other then Greg Oden ?

---

Here's the answer.

What things are we talking about.

Rebounding. Horford is a really good rebounder. However, he was really helped by being on a good rebounding team. Still, who rebounds better from the past draft?

Of course Nick Fazekas and maybe Joakim Noah.

Scoring Just about everybody in the draft scores better than Horford. I can't believe the amount of lies told about his offense.

Defense Just about everybody in the draft defends better than Horford.. but just to name some names: Noah, Smith, Dudley, etc.

Potential Just about everybody in the draft has much better potential than Horford... And that's what really hurts us. We picked a guy with no upside. That means that what you see now is probably what you will ever see.

I mean, seriously...

It's easier to get excited about Brandan Wright. Even though I hate Wright's Marvin like attitude, his potential is off the scale in comparison to Horford. Even at 200 lbs.

I think what happened to Atlanta is we got caught up in measurements and forgot why we were in the draft in the first place.

[DavidSomerset]

Horford should have gone in the 20-25 range from how you talk about him.

That's funny, because he was the consensus 3rd best player in the draft.

Diesel...I hope you are joking.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

It's easier to get excited about Brandan Wright. Even though I hate Wright's Marvin like attitude, his potential is off the scale in comparison to Horford. Even at 200 lbs.

---

WTF can Wright do that Horford can't? More potential? If you mean he has more ground to make up then yes. If not, no.

[Diesel]

You know Marvin was an even bigger consensus #2 pick...

By the way, when you say Horford was Consensus #3 pick, does that mean that the people like EXPERT Jay Bilas who rated Conley the third best player... Don't count? Or the people who said Brandan Wright and those who said Yi.. they don't count.

And the person who said " After Oden and Durant, the draft really starts".. They don't count either.

I have to email ESPN and Sportingnews and tell them that their paid experts don't count!

[coachx]

A post through those beer goggles does not deserve a response.

Diesel, the more you try to build on your arguement. The more you really end up tearing it down.

[Diesel]

My only statement is:

We shall see!

[coachx]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

So Diese, what player in the draft can do these things better then Al Horford other then Greg Oden ?

---

Here's the answer.

What things are we talking about.

Rebounding. Horford is a really good rebounder. However, he was really helped by being on a good rebounding team. Still, who rebounds better from the past draft?

Of course Nick Fazekas and maybe Joakim Noah.

Scoring Just about everybody in the draft scores better than Horford. I can't believe the amount of lies told about his offense.

Defense Just about everybody in the draft defends better than Horford.. but just to name some names: Noah, Smith, Dudley, etc.

Potential Just about everybody in the draft has much better potential than Horford... And that's what really hurts us. We picked a guy with no upside. That means that what you see now is probably what you will ever see.

I mean, seriously...

It's easier to get excited about Brandan Wright. Even though I hate Wright's Marvin like attitude, his potential is off the scale in comparison to Horford. Even at 200 lbs.

I think what happened to Atlanta is we got caught up in measurements and forgot why we were in the draft in the first place.

---

If every any body in the drafts defends better then Horford in your eyes you are blind. You said Noah defends better then Horford. Then why did Horford match up vs. Oden in the championship game instead of Noah ?

Dudley may defend the SF position better then Horford but at 6'7'' I seriously doubt he can ever guard PFs or Centers in the NBA. Oh ya, Horford is not a SF any way. Now you say Smith, the stiff, is a better defender then Horford.

Horford averaged more rebounds then Noah. The Nick Fazekas comment is ridiculous. The guy played against patsies all season.

Every body in the draft scores better then Horford according to Diesel. What player in the draft is better in post offense then Horford? What other player shot better then 60 FG% ?

Now you claim Horford has no potential. He is a finished product. Diesel, Horford just turned 21 in June.

Diesel, what is wrong with you ?

We get to look foward to hearing this crap from you about Marvin and Horford until they shut you up.

Can't wait till' Marvin and Horford are both all stars and King Diesel goes to his crib to cry.

[b3bawla]

Dude, it sounds like you're rooting against him so that you can be right. I hope that's not the case. Is it?

[Diesel]

Oden is not considered a great offensive talent. Moreover, Fla plays a zone. Noah has good enough footwork that he can keep up with Forwards on the wing and it also allows him to get blocks from the blindside. Horford does not have such good footwork, so he's placed in the center of their zone so that he can stay in front of his man until help comes.

[b3bawla]

Dude, it sounds like you're rooting against him so that you can be right. I hope that's not the case. Is it?

[coachx]

That is exactly the case with Diesel. Same goes for his 2.5 year hate of Marvin Williams. It has been this way for a while now.

He would rather be right and the Hawks lose then be wrong and the Hawks win.

Reminds me of all the guys who would rather be in debt and look good then look average and have money in the bank.

[b3bawla]

Quote:

---

That is exactly the case with Diesel. Same goes for his 2.5 year hate of Marvin Williams. It has been this way for a while now.

He would rather be right and the Hawks lose then be wrong and the Hawks win.

Reminds me of all the guys who would rather be in debt and look good then look average and have money in the bank.

---

For the love of Bob Pettit, Lou Huudson and Dominique Wilkens, say it ain't so!!!!!!!!

[Diesel]

I'm not rooting against nobody.

I'm bringing the truth of the situation to this board.

Champ... I'm tired of the baseless lies that get thrown around here about BK's mistakes. Year after year, more lies... Can we tell the truth or is everybody supposed to put on their rosey colored glasses and believe that the sun is pink?

[b3bawla]

But the truth, of which you speak, has yet to be decided. Is Yi's greatness as certain as the color of the sun? Is Horford's imminent failure as reliable as the sun setting in the west? I'm not trying to be sarcastic...just really trying to understand your perspective.

[leftwich]

Quote:

---

If every any body in the drafts defends better then Horford in your eyes you are blind. You said Noah defends better then Horford. Then why did Horford match up vs. Oden in the championship game instead of Noah ?

---

Horford, Noah, and Richard shared the responsibility. I remember the announcers wouldn't shut up about how Donovan's strategy was to rotate the assignment to keep his big men fresh.

This takes away from Diesel's agenda, though, as he likes to blame all of Oden's good game on Horford.

[Diesel]

My perspective is that the question must be asked and researched.

What have I done except ask questions?

I asked what was the Hawks Purpose for drafting Horford. I wanted everybody's opinion.

I asked can anybody explain how a 13 ppg player in college going to become a dominate low post scorer?

I asked how will a guy who gave up points to everybody he faced going to all the sudden become a defensive stopper?

Those were my questions.

They are drenched with the truth.

Unfortunately, people won't try to tackle the hard questions, instead, they try to stereotype me or Walter as a non-fans or as guys trying to get a rise out of people. However, the questions still remain and for the most part, they are unanswered. If people spent more time researching the question and giving a thoughtful answer instead of trying to mount personal attacks in their attempt to divert attention away from the questions, then maybe we will achieve something... Meaningful conversation.

BTW...

"Me too" does not count for meaningful conversation.

[b3bawla]

Quote:

---

My perspective is that the question must be asked and researched.

What have I done except ask questions?

I asked what was the Hawks Purpose for drafting Horford. I wanted everybody's opinion.

I asked can anybody explain how a 13 ppg player in college going to become a dominate low post scorer?

I asked how will a guy who gave up points to everybody he faced going to all the sudden become a defensive stopper?

---

LOL. Those questions are a bit loaded though, aren't they? It's like if I asked you, "Explain to me why you are not a criminal!?!?!"

I mean, what are you gonna say? If you say "because I haven't committed a crime" I can say "how do I know that?" You may respond, "because I have no criminal record." And I could say, "that just proves that you are a GOOD criminal."

Loaded questions are often statements from the perspective where the person posing the question doesn't think the person they are asking will notice that any answer will be used against them. But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Seriously D, I love the trade proposals and all that and it's clear that you really know the Hawks well (we were both Shelden supporters last year I think). I'm just trying to understand you, guy?