Still waiting, Diesel

[kelston827]

Diesel says...

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Seems to me that Horford's #1 defender is ducking these questions, so let's open it up to the Horford fan club...

2. Explain: Oden 25 pts, Morris 18 pts, D. Arther (Kansas 19 pts), JWright 21 pts, Thornton 28 pts, Courtney Lee (W. Kentucky) 16 pts, Darian Townes (Arkansas) 18 pts (Avg = 8 ppg), Shan Foster (Vanderbilt) 24 pts (Avg = 15).

You can try to divert attention to something else... But I dare you to try to explain that. Just about everybody Horford faced had a career day!!! Damn??!?

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kelston827 says

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Hmmm.....

1. Oden...the best center prospect in generations.

2. Morris...wow, scored 2 points above his average!!

3. Arthur and Wright....geez, if Al is responsible for guarding both guys in the same game I guess they probably should go off.

4. Thornton....the guy is a lottery pick and was an elite-level scorer in college.

5. Lee.....WTF does a 6-5 guard have to do with Al Horford?

6. Townes...no explanation, Al must be a bum.

7. Foster...again, WTF does a 6-6 guard have to do with someone manning the inside of a zone defense??

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Diesel says

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Yeah...

Guys just waltz down the lane and score on Florida's zone... repeatedly... But it's not Horford's fault.. blame the zone!!!

Yeah... OK...

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kelston827 says

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Who waltzed down the middle of the zone to score on Al??

Not Lee.

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketbal...0061124_WKTY@FL

2 baskets in the paint.

Not Foster.

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketbal...070217_FL@VANDY

3 baskets in the paint.

Not Wright.

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketbal..._20061125_KS@FL

4 baskets in the paint.

Not even Thornton.

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketbal...0061203_FL@FLST

4 baskets in the paint.

And you know what, I'd venture that a few of those baskets they did score were scored while Al was on the bench.

So that leaves 4 matchups from the list. You mean to tell me that in 4 of Florida's 40 games last year, some guy had a decent game scoring on the inside?? 4 whole games???

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Diesel says

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Horford didn't play players with the resume that Shelden played. NOT POST PLAYERS. The only two he faced (Morris and Oden) destroy Florida.

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kelston827 says

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Oden and Morris destroyed Florida?? Huh?? First of all, Florida won both of those games. Second of all, Morris scored a whopping 2 points over his season average. Third of all, Oden is the best center prospect in generations.

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Still waiting....

[Diesel]

Since you're still waiting.

Let me give you something to chew on...

Separate for Me what's Horford's contribution and what's the team's contribution.

It seems to me that whenever we talk about individual contribution, you want to cloudy it with the team.

Oden and Morris has near career days in the paint vs. Fla.. Fla wins the game. SO DAMN WHAT... We didn't draft Horford for what Florida the team did. We drafted him for his percieved contribution, so until you can tell me what his contribution was, then I guess you will still be waiting.

Because the 13 ppg is laughable for a #3 pick overall IN a strong draft.

The defense against Oden, Morris, and all the other players who scored with ease in the post is LAUGHABLE.

The excuses you make are weak.

So please Kelston.

Draw a Line in the sand somewhere and we can work from there!

[kelston827]

Excuses?? What excuses?? I gave you proof.

Morris had a career day?? He scored 2 points over his season average. And all those other guys who dominated the paint?? What other guys?? My response cleared up the misinformation you were spewing.

Perhaps you didn't see the line drawn in the original post.

Absolutely nothing you said from the original post is true. You got called on it. You were given irrefutable evidence proving you're wrong.

That seems like a pretty cut-and-dry line to me.

[Diesel]

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Oden and Morris destroyed Florida?? Huh?? First of all, Florida won both of those games.

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Hey Kelston, where's Brewer, Noah, and the rest of the guys? When I looked, it said: Horford = 3rd pick!

[kelston827]

Why not respond to the original post instead of divert from your revsionist history??

Why not respond to the game shot logs above that prove NONE of those guys dominated the paint against Horford??

Why not acknowledge that Morris' career day was really only two points above his season average??

Why not acknowledge that in 40 games from last season, you were only able to find three instances of someone having a good game in the paint against Florida.

I DARE YOU (as you like to say) to address any of that.

Start diversion.

[Diesel]

If that's the way you want to go, let's talk...

Dude, look over your own data....

Kansas.

Look up Darrell Arthur of Kansas...

6-7 from the paint. Please view the picture of his shots made. Where's Horford?

Arthur normally scores 9.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg... he had 19 points, 9 rebs against Fla. Where's Horford?

6 of J. Wright shots were made in the paint. Where's Horford? Wright had 21 pt, 10 reb, his average = 12 ppg., 7.8 rpg.

That's Kansas... Let's look at some more!!!

In the FS game, Thornton had 1 dunk and 4 layups. That's 5 points in the paint. Where was Horford?

Let me guess.

All these times when players were scoring on Horford, he was on the bench. He was somewhere taking a mulligan. Surely it wasn't him allowing it. Maybe it was somebody else...

Are you still waiting??

Lastly, your defense of Horford against Oden and Morris are weak. For one, Oden is not consider a great offensive player. He's known for his defense. His 25 against Horford was his second highest point total since he's been in college. The other poor soul who allowed him to score 25+ was some kid out of Central Western Michigan Tech. He was 6'2".

Now... You know what I'm waiting for..> I'm waiting for the excuses to roll in...

[Diesel]

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Morris had a career day?? He scored 2 points over his season average.

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Wow.

You're right. And even more haunting is what it means.

2 pts over your average means that whoever you played against was not able to stop you from doing what you usually do.

We often hear Horford compared to Boozer, Okafor, Mourning...

Let me ask:

Would Boozer have allowed Morris to score 2 points over his average?

How about Okafor?

How about Mourning??

We drafted a guy to be a post defender, however, the best thing we can say about his defense is that he was not able to stop guys from doing what they normally did?

Defensive stopper???

I think not!

[kelston827]

Apparently you are very, very dense.

Arthur was one of the three games you were able to find out of 40 where someone had a good game in the paint. Horford can't guard two men at once, so Wright is just plain false to pin on Horford.

Thornton?? Are you really using five buckets in the paint from an elite scorer in college to back your argument?? Very, very dense.

And what about your boy Morris. You say my response is weak, but curiously no reason why. Maybe it's because you keep claiming that Morris dominated Al when he really only scored one basket over his season average.

Your points are so weak I find myself feeling sorry for you with each and every shredding.

[Diesel]

Yeah... Some 9 ppg player goes off in the paint..

Where's Horford?

give me a break Kelston.

If you want to do the research, do the research, however, notice how many guys have had good days playing against Fla. It's no fluke... It's not a coincident.

AND ABOUT MORRIS...

What did Horford do to stop him??

Obviously nothing [/b ]

[Diesel]

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Apparently you are very, very dense.

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Kelston, You look foolish.

Maybe it was the "ass" comment, the "creamed in pants" or the COUNTLESS other times you've made juvenile comments directed SOLELY at me. I haven't responded to one of your posts (that doesn't include me) IN AGES. I still read yours and respect all posters enough to not block them out and read their thoughts on basketball. I give no more or less than what you serve up because it is ALWAYS you who wants to start something with some personal attack. Look back at the posts. YOU ALWAYS start it. ALWAYS. 100% of the time. ALWAYS.

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[Buzzard]

You still only came up with 4 games out of forty. Kansas, FS, Oden and Morris.

You calling Oden defensive only is a crock and you know it as well. Best center prospect since Ewing and Morning. Yes they were great defensive players but 18 pts or more a game is not shabby either.

They were great overall centers; not one dimensional as you are emplying. Oden is not being compared to Ben Wallace; he is being compared to two HOF centers that scored in the paint and defended the paint just as well....

Now if giving up 25 to Oden is suppose to imply he is horrible; the rest of the NBA better start getting ready to be called horrible as well. Oden is going to have a game or two his rookie year were he gets 25; and by the end of his career, he will probably have a 25 pt game against every team in the NBA.

[kelston827]

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notice how many guys have had good days playing against Fla. It's no fluke... It's not a coincident.

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Yes, I did notice how many guys had good days in the paint against Florida. Four. Four games out of 40, guys had a good game in the paint against Florida. And your argument again is??

[Diesel]

Dude if I cared enough, I could probably comb through Florida's games and find more. But would it matter? I mean, Fla had a cupcake of Cupcake basketball schedule. Especially considering big men. The fact that there are 4 bonafide teams who's bigs had good days playing FLa... Doesn't that state enough?

[killa3312]

Florida does have other big men besides Horford. Just sayin'.

[AtLaS]

Diesel you're points are completely wrong and have absolutely no truth to them. WTF at Horford being the ONLY player in the paint. I guess Noah plays on the wing all game. Seriosly, stop, you know the points you are making are wrong but continue to do so because of your Yi erection. Just stop. It's seriously getting annoying.

I've seen you accuse Walter of not being a fan but it looks like you're being a hypocrite.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Lmao @ stating two players who had good games vs Florida when just about EVERY big man that Shelden faced had a career game

Is Oden a bust since Horford scored 18 points?

Randolph Morris and Greg Oden are a helluva lot better players than some of the players who owned Shelden his last year at Duke.

[atlien]

Haha, yeah, just look at what Sean May did to Shelly. He had a couple monster 20-20 games.

Al Thorton continually abused Shelly going to the hole in a game I remember.

Diesel, didn't you like Noah? Because the same arguments you are using against Horford apply to him as well.

[Diesel]

University of Tennessee: Wayne Chism.

Tenn vs. Fla Shot CHart.

4 of 6 layups.

1 dunk.

19 points... That's 10 over his averaged.

Where's Horford

Jascksonville: Tyrone Curnell

Click

This guy only scored 10 points, even though 9 is his average BUT he plays for the powerhouse Known as Jacksonville.

Where's Horford?

Stetson: Sheldon Oliver

Stetson game.

Dude scored 14 points. His average is 3 ppg. Check out the chart... 4 layups and a dunk...

Where's Horford??

I did say Stetson right?

Arkansas: Darian Towns

Arkansas Fla.

This dude put up 18 points. 5-7 layups. 1-1 dunks. and his 1 jumper was right at the paint too...

Where's Horford?

I can continue... but why?

[gsuteke]

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Apparently you are very, very dense.

Arthur was one of the three games you were able to find out of 40 where someone had a good game in the paint. Horford can't guard two men at once, so Wright is just plain false to pin on Horford.

Thornton?? Are you really using five buckets in the paint from an elite scorer in college to back your argument?? Very, very dense.

And what about your boy Morris. You say my response is weak, but curiously no reason why. Maybe it's because you keep claiming that Morris dominated Al when he really only scored one basket over his season average.

Your points are so weak I find myself feeling sorry for you with each and every shredding.

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Diesel's not dense. he's just agenda motivated. he's also a master at talking in circles. sooner or later he will wear you down.

[kelston827]

HAHAHAHAHA!

This is the funniest yet.

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Dude if I cared enough, I could probably comb through Florida's games and find more.

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Every single person on this message board knows that Diesel will go over mountains of data, peruse hundreds of Web sites, climb the highest mountains to find any shred of evidence that might help prove his point. The fact that he's unwilling to do is a tacit admission that this evidence does not exist.

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The fact that there are 4 bonafide teams who's bigs had good days playing FLa... Doesn't that state enough?

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No, not even close. And every single person who has posted in this thread and the other thread where you were owned agrees with me and disagrees with you.

Four bad games out of 40 is actually a testament to a good defender, not a bad one.

Check mate