More young players BK passed on Team USA Invitees

[gsuteke]

unfortunately you can read the subjects along with a quote from someone else.

key word, unfortunately.

and P.S.

atleast give me some credit for being mildly funny. lighten up sugar britches

[sturt]

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You can tell it's the summer. Even Walter is running out of new material.

I think it's time for Hawks fans to go hibernate for a couple of weeks or maybe until Labor Day. Time away from this site may do some of you some good.

As for me, it's all about the Bengals now.

(( switching to football mode ))

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Oh... now you've found MY negative side, north... nothing against the Bengals, really... just can't stand Mike Brown, nor any two-faced Bengal fans who, pre-Marvin, rightly screamed for him to stop pretending to be a GM, and who now, fail to see that the man continues to only operate the franchise in the interest of passing along as much inheritance to his children and grandchildren as possible... last off-season was particularly troublesome, as, if there was ever a time when the Bengals coulda/shoulda been major players in free agency to add a few missing parts, it was then. Mikey-Boy just held his wallet as tightly as ever. Marvin would be smart to keep that resume' fresh.

[Guest Walter]

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But, with all due respect, Ex, when the day comes that I care what you think about me,

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We get it. "You don't care what we think" (or more likely you do which is why you CONTINUALLY & INCESSANTLY repeat that you don't). BUT you keep posting about how you don't care. WTF?

BTW, neither did KB or GSUteke "care" and they keep posting about it. Good company.

Note: at least KB has me on actual "ignore" instead of talks about it. Better to isolate and insolate yourself than to boast you do.

W

[Guest Walter]

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You can tell it's the summer. Even Walter is running out of new material.

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...would suck. Ownership problems more than anything I gather, but we could really unload a Pg. We could use a BU Sg for it. I miss Batista already. Sigh.

W

[gsuteke]

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Your routine with Walter is pretty weak. This...

"Walter isn't worth respoding to so i just put him on ignore..... jeez what a dumb post by Walter, always with the agenda.... still ignoring him, advising others to do the same.... he definitely needs some meds....still ignoring him......why do you people even bother responding to him?...."

Very Nancyboy IMO. Either take him head on or ignore him like you have claimed to be doing for a long time.

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my aplogies for not answering this post in it's entirety earlier.

I did take him head on with a little research and owned him not only in the humor department but in the logic department as well. Everyone else parted the Red Sea like they were Moses.

Reference Northcyde's first post from that thread. it's just Walter, what's there to be scared of other than depression?

[Guest Walter]

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I did take him head on

with a little research and owned him not only in the humor department but in the logic department as well. Everyone else parted the Red Sea like they were Moses.

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"You took me head on." Oooh, big tough guy. What a pansy ass.

You can't "owned" me (especially with a little Winkipedia research...holy [censored] that was funny of you) just like you can't adhere to your own "ignore Walter" mini mantra haterade man-love fest.

You sure can boast about both as if you could, much less did. Reminds me of the time you boasted at HS about "owning" another team's forum's posters (how big of you. Boasting here, not there, and looking mighty small doing it.) or boasted about (insert GSUteke boasting about his "owning" something here).

But of course Woody had NOTHING TO DO WITH JJ's and Childress' injuries. He was only playing a formerly 25 MPG player 2 months removed from his career 2nd stress fracture a league-leading (in that span) 43 MPG and it's not like JJ was already injured in practice before he played 40 minutes.

Go winkipedia how to love yourself, GSUteke. At least I hate something that has to do with this franchise (BK) on HAWKSQUAWK. Why do you hate here towards and boast here about NOTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH BASKETBALL?!? You must hate yourself and think yourself so unworthy of praise that you try and take it out on others and promote yourself so much. I use to think Diesel was a self-promoter, but BY FAR you self-promote and hate MORE THAN ANYONE IN HAWKSQUAWK!

[sturt]

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But, with all due respect, Ex, when the day comes that I care what you think about me,

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We get it. "You don't care what we think" (or more likely you do which is why you CONTINUALLY & INCESSANTLY repeat that you don't). BUT you keep posting about how you don't care. WTF?

BTW, neither did KB or GSUteke "care" and they keep posting about it. Good company.

Note: at least KB has me on actual "ignore" instead of talks about it. Better to isolate and insolate yourself than to boast you do.

W

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...I continue to hold out hope for you. You're smart... you just need an attitude change, and you might get it together.

Thus, no "ignore," and thus the repeated responses...

And if you ever became transparent, you'd hasten to indicate that _sturt_ only repeats those because you continue to write back to me asking for an explanation for how I can possibly maintain the position I do...

I wouldn't repeat it, if you would, as you allege you do, "get it"--ie, that I've addressed practically anything you want to throw-up already... my position and the rationale behind the rationale is clear, resolute, and coherent. You, meanwhile, have cleverly avoided the foundations for the dialogue that I presented, which essentially demonstrate that all of your arbitrary measurements fail the "It's the Championship, stupid" test... and, yeah, I also "get" why.

[Guest Walter]

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You, meanwhile, have cleverly avoided the foundations for the dialogue that I presented, which essentially demonstrate that all of your arbitrary measurements fail the "It's the Championship, stupid" test... and, yeah, I also "get" why.

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You've argued that fan opinion of BK is not only objective but an argument "for" him being a good GM. That to me is frankly crazy. That and he hasn't drafted a "bust" (questionable) albeit it would seem no one has in the top 7-8 in recent years has been a bust with SW possibly being the closest thing to it last year.

Neither are objective, but regardless they don't even come close enough to even mention some arbitrary, subjective "championship test".

At least when I mention that BK has directly passed on R.O.Y. 2 consecutive yeras, that he picked the WORST CONCEIVABLE prospect available three consecutive years in a row, that three of the players he's passed on are as we speak trying out for the US team, that all the players he passed on made the rookie AND sophomore games (Deng, Iggy, Deron, Paul, Roy...not sure about Foye but I think he did also), Speedy and Lo possibly being the worst two FA signings last year, etc. It is all exceedingly clear and objective. When building through the draft a track record like this means you never sit for any "championship test".

However, I applaud your lack of "ignore" use. The desire to isolate and insulate oneself from other positions or ideas (or in some cases boast about it while not doing so) is not as it should be and is dangerously close minded and arrogant. Keep the lines open and we'll all get along or at least jab, counter-punch trying.

W

[exodus]

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But, with all due respect, Ex, when the day comes that I care what you think about me, or about which new name to call me, or what I should do or shouldn't do in order to prove myself to you as supreme judge

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WTF are you talking about? I wasn't even talking to you. Obsess much?

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You and W may or may not always agree (what do I care), but my dear, dear friend, the evidence supports that you were conjoined twins separated at birth from the rear end... translation, if it applies to W, it applies equally to you

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That is just dumb, or typical i should say.

[Vol4ever]

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link

Ellis, Roy, and Iggy, three players BK passed on directly, are practicing for Team USA. Deng will play elsewhere.

I'll never understand how BK gets credit for anything but being all but the worst GM in the NBA. He's horrendous.

W

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Well we all know that is he is the worst GM in the history of the NBA. The problem is our ownership group is also the worst in NBA history.

I have been a Hawks fan since the late 70s and I think it is a shame that the NBA has let this franchise get to where it is at. I don't know which part of the ownership fight is to blame but I do believe they DO NOT have the best interest of the Hawks and their fans in mind. I usually travel to Atlanta several times a year to watch the Hawks (160 miles one way) but I haven't the last couple of years because the team is just not NBA level, after this draft maybe they will play better.

It's just a shame the city of Atlanta and it's fans have to put up with this crap.

[sturt]

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You, meanwhile, have cleverly avoided the foundations for the dialogue that I presented, which essentially demonstrate that all of your arbitrary measurements fail the "It's the Championship, stupid" test... and, yeah, I also "get" why.

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You've argued that fan opinion of BK is not only objective but an argument "for" him being a good GM. That to me is frankly crazy. That and he hasn't drafted a "bust" (questionable) albeit it would seem no one has in the top 7-8 in recent years has been a bust with SW possibly being the closest thing to it last year.

Neither are objective, but regardless they don't even come close enough to even mention some arbitrary, subjective "championship test".

At least when I mention that BK has directly passed on R.O.Y. 2 consecutive yeras, that he picked the WORST CONCEIVABLE prospect available three consecutive years in a row, that three of the players he's passed on are as we speak trying out for the US team, that all the players he passed on made the rookie AND sophomore games (Deng, Iggy, Deron, Paul, Roy...not sure about Foye but I think he did also), Speedy and Lo possibly being the worst two FA signings last year, etc. It is all exceedingly clear and objective. When building through the draft a track record like this means you never sit for any "championship test".

However, I applaud your lack of "ignore" use. The desire to isolate and insulate oneself from other positions or ideas (or in some cases boast about it while not doing so) is not as it should be and is dangerously close minded and arrogant. Keep the lines open and we'll all get along or at least jab, counter-punch trying.

W

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W, thanks.

You have this politician-like, disingenuous habit of rephrasing things to their optimal simplistic terms for the sake of your argument... nice technique, but again, disingenuous, if, in fact, the goal is to defeat the argument, which is more elaborate than you evidently choose to illuminate... novice readers to this forum can't see through you, but I dare say there aren't many novices left here... I could be wrong, of course.

Saving you and any other observers some time, here's where you should focus your attention...

1) This quote:

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Well, I’ve just addressed most of that, but still want to come back to this concept of “better” that you’re so hooked on, b/c I think it’s an important point for anyone who’s actually embracing the discussion rather than formulating their own defensive comeback…

You can’t take ordinal data and deduce from it anything but ranking… you may have Ohio State, USC, Florida, and Michigan ranked #1 thru #4, but how much better Ohio State is than USC, or USC is better than Florida, or Florida better than Michigan may be microscopic, or may be light years.

(Makes “sense,” right? Just making sure.)

When GMs and their scouting departments grade players for the draft, they have better data than just ordinal… they have integral data, and within that integral data, they have an understanding—largely subjective, really, but some understanding nonetheless that likely was reached by some consensus of the GMs and his scouts—of the amount of error that can be anticipated within the numbers… not unlike the plus/minus you would hear about for a presidential poll. The plus/minus would be indicative of the ceiling and basement to which I’ve alluded several times now—that is, a prediction of a given player’s greatest potential success versus his greatest potential failure.

So, how does any of that matter to what you’ve just said?

Hopefully, you’re ahead of me and can answer that, but I’ll say it anyway:

Let’s just use assume some numbers for the sake of making clear the argument:

- Player X may have graded out at 7.4 with a plus/minus of 1.5, thus 8.9 best-case, 5.9 worst-case.

- Player Y may have graded out at 7.2 with a plus/minus of 1.5, thus a range of 8.7 to 5.7.

- Player Z may have graded out at 7.0 with a plus/minus of 0.5, thus 7.5 to 6.5.

Player X is clearly the BPA.

But for the same reasons that one doesn’t necessarily pick the hot mutual fund, the difference between the grades may not be significant enough that the GM wants to accept any more risk than he has to… like a day trader, he may reason to himself that he’s better to go with something more sure and to be satisfied to achieve a decent gain instead of exposing his portfolio to the possibility of a weak investment.

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2) ...this post:

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/printthre...8&type=post

3) ...and this post:

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....p;fpart=#243134

So... If you want to "win," you have to quote me and defeat the argument that way... to do less is to shadow box, punching against the images you've created/interpreted, rather than actual substance and resistance.