The first time in a long while.

[Peoriabird]

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Unless Marvin blows up, we will be able to sign both Marvin AND Chillz for less than what Gasol will be making when it is time for Marvin's extension. Gasol will be making $16.5M when Marvin is eligible for an extension in 09/10. If Marvin is playing well enough to deserve a contract starting at $10M a season in 09/10 we should ALL be thrilled and I can't imagine the team will offer Chillz a deal starting at more than $6.5M a season under any circumstances.

Unless you are advocating that we INCLUDE Smoove in the deal for Gasol, signing Gasol does not improve our financial situation going forward one bit. If anything, trading for Gasol would RESTRICT our financial flexibility going forward.

In addition, you propose trading Chillz for Miller. How is that supposed to help our financial situation? Miller will make $9M next year versus whatever the team offers Chillz but I can GUARANTEE you we won't be extending Chillz to a deal starting at $9M a season.

Bottom line, I like Gasol and I wouldn't have a problem trading for him with the right package (though I don't think MEM would even CONSIDER trading him to us unless they were getting at least one of JJ, Smoove or Horford - you are dreaming if you think Marvin/Shelden would do it) but I DON'T think trading for him would benefit our financial situation at all.

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I was thinking the exact same thing! How can you trade your cheap pieces for a more expensive piece and save money? Don't you just hate talking heads!

[Diesel]

But don't you want Marvin or Chillz to "blow up"?

At the root of your argument is a want to hold on to mediocrity?

What I'm saying is that the only thing that makes getting Gasol expensive for us is the use of ending contracts. IF perhaps, we were to have traded our ending contracts for a good player then we ventured to trade some of our core players for Gasol, we'd easily save money because of the cost it will take to resign our young players.

That's my point.

When you bring in Ending contracts, sure we can get rid of all the ending contracts (Salim, Aj, Lo, and Lue and not replace them) then keeping the core players become cheaper than going after Gasol, but is that neccessarily the best business move.

I see the players as tradeable pieces. IF we can upgrade this team by trading them, then we should trade them.

[Peoriabird]

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When you bring in Ending contracts, sure we can get rid of all the ending contracts (Salim, Aj, Lo, and Lue and not replace them) then keeping the core players become cheaper than going after Gasol, but is that neccessarily the best business move.

I see the players as tradeable pieces. IF we can upgrade this team by trading them, then we should trade them.

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So essentially you are saying that Marvin & Childress will cost more than Gasol!

[Diesel]

No. I'm saying all things being equal....

Marvin and Chillz salary upgrades will be more than Gasol's.

Gasol is only going to increase 1.39 million per year.

Marvin's will increase 2 million per before he even gets his extension. Chillz' will increase 1.2 million before he gets his extension.

Now if you want to argue that Chillz and Marvin won't get a sizeable extension because they are mediocre players..

I have to ask, why are we keep these mediocre players when we can get an Allstar type player?

[gsuteke]

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No. I'm saying all things being equal....

Marvin and Chillz salary upgrades will be more than Gasol's.

Gasol is only going to increase 1.39 million per year.

Marvin's will increase 2 million per before he even gets his extension. Chillz' will increase 1.2 million before he gets his extension.

Now if you want to argue that Chillz and Marvin won't get a sizeable extension because they are mediocre players..

I have to ask, why are we keep these mediocre players when we can get an Allstar type player?

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which is why Memphis won't trade Gasol for them right now.

[Peoriabird]

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No. I'm saying all things being equal....

Marvin and Chillz salary upgrades will be more than Gasol's.

Gasol is only going to increase 1.39 million per year.

Marvin's will increase 2 million per before he even gets his extension. Chillz' will increase 1.2 million before he gets his extension.

Now if you want to argue that Chillz and Marvin won't get a sizeable extension because they are mediocre players..

I have to ask, why are we keep these mediocre players when we can get an Allstar type player?

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Please make this simple for me. What will Childress and Marvin combine salary be in 2 years?

[gsuteke]

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No. I'm saying all things being equal....

Marvin and Chillz salary upgrades will be more than Gasol's.

Gasol is only going to increase 1.39 million per year.

Marvin's will increase 2 million per before he even gets his extension. Chillz' will increase 1.2 million before he gets his extension.

Now if you want to argue that Chillz and Marvin won't get a sizeable extension because they are mediocre players..

I have to ask, why are we keep these mediocre players when we can get an Allstar type player?

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Please make this simple for me. What will Childress and Marvin combine salary be in 2 years?

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he must be thinking 18 million. i mean for christ's sake Gasol and the MLE equals 18 million.

here's what's being missed in this discussion. the cap may be at 48 but how many teams are actually under the cap?

that being said the Hawks have the ability (I understand Belkin complicates things in the short term) to go over the cap. this question is posed specifically to Diesel, do you not think they'll be willing to go over to resign their own young players they've drafted and developed?

[Traceman]

but even if Marvin does blow up this year, we won't have to pay him big money until after NEXT season. Besides, I'm a Marvin supporter and even I have a hard time envisioning a scenario under which he would command more than $10M a season to start on his extension. Anything more and he will be approaching max money.

As for Chillz, again, no way he is getting more than $6.5M a season to start from us and knowing BK, he is offering less (if anything right now).

Bottom line, I can't envision a scenario in which a Marvin/Chillz combo costs us more than Gasol but if one does develop, we are going to be REALLY good because Marvin is going to be a max level player.

[Diesel]

This is what I'm saying.

Right now, we are around 48 million. The cap is at 55 Million.

If we traded players for Gasol...and it's an even swap, we are still around 48 million.

(Do you get that part)...

Regardless of how much Gasol is making personally...

Next year, his salary only increase 1.39 million. So, Gasol's contribution to our cap increase is 1.39 million. The same is true the year after.

Well, the same is true for Marvin and Chillz. NEXT year, Marvin + Chillz will contribute 3.2 Million dollars to our cap increase next year...

The point that the other guy is arguing is from a standpoint that Gasol makes significantly more than Chillz and Marvin. That's true... However, if we were to use our ending contracts on another player who was signed for the next two years, then the only difference that would matter would be 1.39 million (Gasol) vs. 3.2 million (Chillz/Marvin). So in that case, it would be better and cheaper to get Gasol.

Moreover, we still haven't touched the fact that over the next three years, these guys will have to be resigned.

Marvin's Qualifier is 7 million. I can't see him not asking for 9. Chillz' is at 4.1 million. I think he goes for 5 maybe 6 (depending on this year and the market).

All in all, it would be easier just to trade for Gasol than to try resigning all of our younger players. Even though Gasol's making a lot, he's not due to be reuped any time soon.

Now... TO your question:

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Diesel, do you not think they'll be willing to go over to resign their own young players they've drafted and developed?

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With these owners it's very hard to say. I think it depends on the W-L s of this team. If we're a winning team, I guess so. IF we're a losing team, then they have to follow the same logic they followed when they traded: SAR, THEO, Big Dog, JT, Jax, Walker, Harrington, etc...

Like it or not, this team has been operated on the cheap. Like it or not, young talent is cheaper than old talent. Like it or not, our owners have a pattern of only spending money on players who can win or be marketed well. Josh Smith is very marketable and he has a very valuable skill set. I think there will be some egg on the face if they let Marvin Walk HOWEVER, I haven't seen these owners not make business moves when the choice is business or personal.

[gsuteke]

read this

and now read this....

Quote:

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This is what I'm saying.

Right now, we are around 48 million. The cap is at 55 Million.

If we traded players for Gasol...and it's an even swap, we are still around 48 million.

(Do you get that part)...

Regardless of how much Gasol is making personally...

Next year, his salary only increase 1.39 million. So, Gasol's contribution to our cap increase is 1.39 million. The same is true the year after.

Well, the same is true for Marvin and Chillz. NEXT year, Marvin + Chillz will contribute 3.2 Million dollars to our cap increase next year...

The point that the other guy is arguing is from a standpoint that Gasol makes significantly more than Chillz and Marvin. That's true... However, if we were to use our ending contracts on another player who was signed for the next two years, then the only difference that would matter would be 1.39 million (Gasol) vs. 3.2 million (Chillz/Marvin). So in that case, it would be better and cheaper to get Gasol.

Moreover, we still haven't touched the fact that over the next three years, these guys will have to be resigned.

Marvin's Qualifier is 7 million. I can't see him not asking for 9. Chillz' is at 4.1 million. I think he goes for 5 maybe 6 (depending on this year and the market).

All in all, it would be easier just to trade for Gasol than to try resigning all of our younger players. Even though Gasol's making a lot, he's not due to be reuped any time soon.

Now... TO your question:

Quote:

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Diesel, do you not think they'll be willing to go over to resign their own young players they've drafted and developed?

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With these owners it's very hard to say. I think it depends on the W-L s of this team. If we're a winning team, I guess so. IF we're a losing team, then they have to follow the same logic they followed when they traded: SAR, THEO, Big Dog, JT, Jax, Walker, Harrington, etc...

Like it or not, this team has been operated on the cheap. Like it or not, young talent is cheaper than old talent. Like it or not, our owners have a pattern of only spending money on players who can win or be marketed well. Josh Smith is very marketable and he has a very valuable skill set. I think there will be some egg on the face if they let Marvin Walk HOWEVER, I haven't seen these owners not make business moves when the choice is business or personal.

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[Peoriabird]

Are you trying to say that this is how you feel after reading a Diesel thread?

[Diesel]

Once, again.

I make it no secret that I believe that Gasol would improve our team. I said that I would still like Gasol in the very first post...

However, I'm willing to go into the season with what we have because we have no holes... unlike previous seasons where we had holes in our frontline, in our PGs, etc..

What's so hard to understand about that Teke?

[gsuteke]

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Once, again.

I make it no secret that I believe that Gasol would improve our team. I said that I would still like Gasol in the very first post...

However, I'm willing to go into the season with what we have because we have no holes... unlike previous seasons where we had holes in our frontline, in our PGs, etc..

What's so hard to understand about that Teke?

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You tell me what's so hard to understand about it.

You brought up the fact that you'd like to see the team play together this year to see what we've got.

I responded to a different poster addressing the Hawks defensively.

You responded completely off subject and arguably contradicting your own orignal post with "hold on wait a minute" let's trade some of our players because we can't resign them.

sorry but my HTML quoting ability is lacking, otherwise the point would be so clear it would be compelling.

[Diesel]

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You brought up the fact that you'd like to see the team play together

this year

to see what we've got.

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Please find that!!

I said that I would like to start this year with what we got.

[gsuteke]

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You brought up the fact that you'd like to see the team play together

this year

to see what we've got.

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Please find that!!

I said that I would like to start this year with what we got.

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read it again, slower this time

[gsuteke]

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This is the first time in a long while that I can look at our team and not really think of anything we need to trade for.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to get Gasol...

However, it's not a necessity. I really would like to see what this team can do going forward

into the season

. I don't even have much bad to say about BK. We will see how it turns out.

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"into the season." that's a little like saying "into this year."

[Diesel]

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going forward into the season

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Going forward into the season suggests that the season hasn't begun yet. I didn't say continuing into the season. Moreover, I have made it very clear in this thread already that it's a mistake to finish off this season without making a trade of one of our "core"... See now you're just being ridiculous and trying to bait by acting as if you can't read? Or is it that you can't read? Hmm??

[gsuteke]

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going forward into the season

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Going forward into the season suggests that the season hasn't begun yet. I didn't say continuing into the season. Moreover, I have made it very clear in this thread already that it's a mistake to finish off this season without making a trade of one of our "core"... See now you're just being ridiculous and trying to bait by acting as if you can't read? Or is it that you can't read? Hmm??

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"This is the first time in a long while that I can look at our team and not really think of anything we need to trade for."

you conveniently left that out. you do that alot, that is when you're man enough to reply.

I can read, your comprehension is still questionable. read your original post a 3rd time, preferably even slower this time.

[Diesel]

Slow it down to whatever speed will help you the most.

I think it's sort of moot now that I have clearly explained it to you for a 3rd time... but do what you feel you must do. Maybe we can get the English professor here to break it down for you.

[gsuteke]

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Slow it down to whatever speed will help you the most.

I think it's sort of moot now that I have clearly explained it to you for a 3rd time... but do what you feel you must do. Maybe we can get the English professor here to break it down for you.

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This link may help you bridge the gap between

"This is the first time in a long while that I can look at our team and not really think of anything we need to trade for."

and

"However, it's not a necessity. I really would like to see what this team can do going forward into the season."

unfortunately your original post set you up to contradict yourself later on in the thread as that is your nature.

Hope that helped!