Stop Wit the Josh Wants to Be a 3 Talk!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Diesel]

Oh.. He did.

And he said, he has been working on his shooting off screens and ballhandling in the midrange....

You know a continuation of the areas that he has been improving upon for the last 2 years...

He also lost weight?

From a 245 to a 235.

Probably to give him more speed and footspeed.

[Diesel]

I would like to hear that we made a reasonable deal for Gasol and we still have Law, JJ and Smoove.

[DJlaysitup]

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I would like to hear that we made a reasonable deal for Gasol and we still have Law, JJ and Smoove.

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Bingo - everybody else is negotiable.

[exodus]

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If you want the best team...JS should be a 3

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Yeah because he played so much better at the 3 last year. His 25% 3 pt shooting fits perfectly at the 3, as does his stellar off the dribble game and his blazing quickness.

[Swatguy]

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I would like to hear that we made a reasonable deal for Gasol and we still have Law, JJ and Smoove.

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Bingo - everybody else is negotiable.

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It would be a mistake, getting Gasol. I'd much rather have Al and Marvin (we would need to deal them). Horford will be better than Gasol.

Gasol is declining.

[DJlaysitup]

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If you want the best team...JS should be a 3

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Yeah because he played so much better at the 3 last year. His 25% 3 pt shooting fits perfectly at the 3, as does his stellar off the dribble game and his blazing quickness.

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We both know that he does other things that change games.

[exodus]

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We both know that he does other things that change games.

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You mean like block shots and get rebounds? yeah he will do that a lot better at the 3.

[vdunkndunk]

I agree that Josh has some weaknesses with his man to man post defense. If you get him off his feet, for instance, he's screwed - and since he loves to block shots, sometimes it's a little too easy to get him off his feet. I remember when we played the Celtics twice in a short period of time...the first time Smoove was killing Al Jefferson, blocking him over and over again. The second time, Jefferson added a pumpfake or two (it was clear he had learned his lesson), and then he didn't have a lot of trouble scoring on Smoove.

With that being said, though, I think he has enough tools (stength, length, athleticism) to defend the 4 spot fairly well - plus playing down low let's him take better advantage of his ability to rebound and block shots on help defense - whereas at the 3 spot he simply isn't quick enough on defense, plus playing on the perimeter draws him away from the basket where he can have the biggest impact on a game. So to me, offensively and defensively, Smoove is best as a 4, although obviously he's capable of playing some 3 every now and then.

[exodus]

I'm guessing you missed the sarcasm in my post.

[Popeye]

You put Smoove at the 3 defensively and watch quick guys like Gerald Wallace score 40+ on him. This has been proven already.

You put Smoove at the 3 offensively and watch him get in foul troble for trying to overpower quicker players like Deng and Wallace simple because he isn't quick enough to blow by them.

For this team to succed they need Marvin to man that 3 spot not Smith. Marvin hasn't showed that he can do it consistently, but he should improve on that as he matures.

The way i see it right now is that Smoove is the better player than Horford and Marvin but his weaknesses in each position are to much to just label him as the best player in both positions.

I think Horford will be better PF than Smoove and I think that Marvin is a better SF than Smoove.

[HawkNJersey]

There's a lot of bullsheet in this thread.....

[DJlaysitup]

Marvin..LOL.

[atlien]

Vdunkndunk has said it all.

I can't believe yall can actually WATCH games and think Smoove should still play the 3 the majority of the minutes.

He should be a 4, just like Marion should be a 4.

He should be a 4, just like AK-47 should be a 4 (Utah moving him to the 3-spot really hurt his game last season).

I actually really like the forward tandem of Marvin and Smoove. I think the board will as well by the end of this season.

[DJlaysitup]

OK - here's my opinion - Marvin shouldn't be in the league.

[TroyMcClure]

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He should be a 4, just like AK-47 should be a 4 (Utah moving him to the 3-spot really hurt his game last season).

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I have no idea what you are talking about. To my knowledge, Kirilenko has never played exclusively at the 4. I doubt he has started 20 games there. He came in with Karl and Boozer has been there since then. The one year in between Collins started 81 gamesat pf I think, with Ostertag starting at center.

Josh is young. His stroke is not bad and he will become a clutc 3 shooter, I think. The benefit of having him on the wing is that he can see the floor. If anyone moves at all, Smoove will make a nice pass. He is like our best perimeter passer instinctively.

Oh, and he's not a pf. Get it through your heads, people. He's not cattle and putting on weight simply won't do it. He won't ever play like a pf. The overwhelming majority of his blocks come from trailing a play or coming off the ball... usually from the wing. He gets muscled underneath. Not because of his size mind you, but because he lets the go up the way they want... thinking he can block or alter the shot. He's underneath the hoop most times and it is a layup. For such an instinctive shot blocker, he is not very good at on ball defense.

Smoove is a tweener. I prefer he "tweens" near the 3.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Josh is jus doing what any tweener should do and that is work on your entire a game. The key to being a successful tweener in the league is finding what position puts you at an advantage offensively.

Josh advantage is clearly at the 4 which allows him to get defensive rebounds, initiate the fast break with his dribble and successfully beat other 4s on the break for dunks and layups. Analize the game squawkers and you will see that this is Joshes biggest asset!!! Basically this is his go to move besides catching alleys, put backs and spot up shooting.

But please stop wit the 3 talk squawkers!!! Josh is a tweener 4/3. The minutes he plays at the 3 should only be in spots because he is not that quick and he doesn't have any effective off the dribble moves. However, he is able to beat 4's with his limited dribble drive moves because he is quicker than most 4's. Anybody that watches the game knows that when Josh is at the 3 you should expect alot of pull up jumpers!!!!!

I posted this 3 or 4 times last season. JOSH PLAYS BETTER AT HIS NATURAL WEIGHT OF 235!!! At the beginning of last year when he was bigger his game suffered tremendously because he doesn't have the bounce. but I seem to be the only one that notice that amongst all you non game watchers/boxscore readers!!!!! ''Box Score Readers'' find the stat that shows the number of dunks Josh had in the first half of the season compared to the second half. I bet that he had more dunks in the second half of the season when he was down to his natural 235 playing weight.

P.S. IF YOU DON'T HAVE LEAGUE PASS OR GO TO THE GAMES IN PERSON SHUT UP TALKING BOUT THE HAWKS..CAUSE YOU'RE NOT A HAWKS FAN!!!!!!!

LAST BUT NOT LEAST THE EAST IS MUCH STRONGER BUT WE MAKING THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR!!!!! WATCH!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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Thanks Don. You just saved me a lot of typing. But I'm sure as I continue to read this thread, that I'll have to come at people with FACTS about Smoove.

Don . . it should be REQUIRED amongst all Hawksquawk members, that they RECORD EACH AND EVERY HAWKS GAME THEY CAN NEXT SEASON!! I say this because it's obvious that people's eyes are fooling them. Smoove is about 75% less aggressive of a player, when he plays the 3, compared to when he plays the 4.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Vdunkndunk has said it all.

I can't believe yall can actually WATCH games and think Smoove should still play the 3 the majority of the minutes.

He should be a 4, just like Marion should be a 4.

He should be a 4, just like AK-47 should be a 4 (Utah moving him to the 3-spot really hurt his game last season).

I actually really like the forward tandem of Marvin and Smoove. I think the board will as well by the end of this season.

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Kirilenko's eFG% for the past 3 years:

04 - 05: 42.0% ( jumpers ) - 64.4% ( inside scoring )

05 - 06: 35.3% ( jumpers ) - 62.1% ( inside scoring )

06 - 07: 29.9% ( jumpers ) - 68.6% ( inside scoring )

Smoove's eFG% for the past 3 years:

04 - 05: 27.7% ( jumpers ) - 62.9% ( inside scoring )

05 - 06: 36.3% ( jumpers ) - 58.5% ( inside scoring )

06 - 07: 31.6% ( jumpers ) - 61.0% ( inside scoring )

If there's a player to compare Smoove to, it's AK-47. Almost the same type of game. I think Smoove surpassed him this year . . when he was able to play the 4 at lot more than he did the 3.

In the PHX - ATL game in Atlanta in February, former Suns player and current Suns commentator, Eddie Johnson, said two things in that broadcast that stood out to me.

( Eddie and Smitty did a switch at the beginning of the 2nd quarter of that game. Smitty went to do color for the Phoenix FOX broadcast, while Eddie did color for the Hawks. They each stayed on the other side until the 2nd mandatory TV timeout in the 2nd quarter )

From Eddie:

1) "I know people talk about Chris Paul and the fact that Atlanta needed a PG, but this kid ( Marvin ) just might be the better player when it's all said and done."

2) Josh Smith reminds me a lot of Lamar Odom, a guy who can do it all. He's special.

Let's focus on the 2nd statement.

When you talk about Lamar Odom, you're talking about a guy who is a player who can be a tremendous offensive weapon. He can handle the ball like a guard, and post people up if need be. If this is who Smoove aspires to be, then so be it. I'll gladly accept that.

But Lamar's problem is the same thing that we wish Smoove would do . . stop settling for jumpers and attack the paint more often.

Lamar's eFG last year on his jumpers were 39.6%. Inside, he scored at a 64.7% clip.

The problem, is that 55% of his shots last year were jumpers. That's a BIG PROBLEM for a Laker team void of talent ouside of he and Kobe.

You just can't have Lamar settling for jumpers like that, when, like Smoove when he plays the 4, he has the ability to take any man 6 - 9 or taller off the dribble and get to the hole. He's either going to score, or get fouled most of the time.

Play Lamar at the 3, and he can be a point forward. But he'll also settle for long jumpers.

This is why every team Lamar has played on, has eventually played him at the 4. It keeps him somewhat aggressive on the offensive end, and on the boards.

Put either of these guys at the 3 for extended periods, and their effectiveness is dimished.

Marvin is, and will always be, a better player at the 3. Let Smoove play the hybrid role, but let him play it from the 4 spot to keep him aggressive.

[AtLaS]

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Let's stop playing Musical chairs with these guys and let them play where their skillset dictate.

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Good, then Smith stays at the 4.

[vdunkndunk]

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I'm guessing you missed the sarcasm in my post.

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^I was actually trying to respond to an earlier post by Diesel, but I always forget to click on the post I'm responding to (usually I just click on the last post on the thread without thinking about it). I completely agree with what you're saying, though.

This is what I was talking about from Diesel....

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How many times did Smoove let the offensive PF work in low... get position, watch the pass come in and try for the block attempt. That mighta worked in HS, but by the time you have an NBA quality PF, the guy already knows how to get his spot and score on anybody....

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I kind of agree with what Diesel is saying here, but I think Smoove just needs to learn not to bite on pump fakes and to play better positional defense in the post...I think turning him into a good perimeter defender would be harder than turning him into a good post defender, plus putting him out on the perimeter reduces his effectiveness as a rebounder and shotblocker on help defense.

[atlien]

Northcyde, you never cease to amaze me. Great post!

I agree with all that. We put Smoove at the 3, we don't get maximize his game. We put him at the 3, we also don't maximize Marvin's game (Marvin will be a scorer).

Also, just wanna point out, it's funny how soo many great basketball minds think Marvin will be a very special player still (see Eddie Johnson), yet this board is ready to trade him for 40 cents on the dollar (which makes a ton of sense, lets invest all this playing time in him for development, and then trade him away for jack [censored]!). But whatever, this topic is about Smoove, not Marvin, so I digress.