Hawks players predictions...

[Peoriabird]

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Marvin = 24.4% from 3.

Smoove = 25% from 3.

Right... Right... Marvin = more skilled perimeter player??

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So the only stat that you can bring up that supports your claim that Smoove is a better perimeter player is that he shot .6% better from 3 point range last year? I will admit that Marvin has not developed range yet. In fact marvin knows that he doesn't have that kind of range yet which is why he doesn't shoot that many. On the other hand, Smoove doesn't know that he doesn't have 3 point range and shot over 3 times as many 3's as Marvin did last year! That is commonly referred to as low basketball I.Q.! i.e. going to your weakness more instead of your strength. In fact, every time I rewatched a game that I had on a CD, the commentators would all make the same comment about Josh Smith. They would all say that the other team's plan was to leave Josh Smith wide open and encourage him to shoot from the outside because they knew that was not his strength! On the other hand, they would comment on the progress that Marvin was making. In fact at one point Marvin increased his scoring average every month from his rookie season in 2005 until february of 2007 where he dropped off .6 ppg.

So I don't know what make Marvin worse than Smoove on the perimeter. He handles the ball better, makes better decisions with the ball, Shoots a higher percentage from the perimeter and is quicker on offense and defense! But go ahead and try to convince me!

[AHF]

As far as perimeter shooting goes, I think the most relevant statistic is effective field goal percentage on jumpers since this takes into account the additional points from 3s.

Marvin's eFG% on jumpers for 2006-07 was 41.5%

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL12A.HTM

Smoove's eFG% of jumpers for 2006-07 was 31.6%

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL11A.HTM

Marvin is clearly the better perimeter scorer right now based on those numbers.

[exodus]

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As far as perimeter shooting goes, I think the most relevant statistic is effective field goal percentage on jumpers since this takes into account the additional points from 3s.

Marvin's eFG% on jumpers for 2006-07 was 41.5%

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL12A.HTM

Smoove's eFG% of jumpers for 2006-07 was 31.6%

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL11A.HTM

Marvin is clearly the better perimeter scorer right now based on those numbers.

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it is clear to everyone who doesn't have an agenda.

[Traceman]

Smoove is CLEARLY a better finisher around the basket and Marvin is CLEARLY a better shooter from 5 feet on out.

[mrhonline]

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it is clear to everyone who doesn't have an agenda.

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You mean like the majority of NBA teams that would jump at the chance to acquire Marvin Williams?

You want a prediction? I'll give you a good one. The Hawks will consider a S&T of Josh Smith for a starting center before they would give up on Marvin.

I think the plan may very well be to have Marvin at the 3, Horford at 4, and Player X (acquired via S&T) at 5. And that team would be a much more balanced squad.

[atlien]

Anyone who would rather have Smoove out on the perimeter than Marvin is just flat-out wrong in their anaylsis.

Go ask anyone with a high level of bball knowledge familiar with the situation. It is absurd.

You actually think Smoove is a better shooter and ball-handler than Marvin. Did you watch the games??

Oh, and Shelly's and Zaza's times will get eatin into by Horford before Marvin's or Chill's. Book that one.

[Plainview1981]

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Something is wrong with this guy's logic! Maybe Diesel just starts threads to get the message board going! The only problem is that when he does it, he sound so uneducated about sports in general!

Please someone help me with this!

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I do not think Diesel watches a lot of NBA like he claims; instead he plays XBox all day long to test out his theory that Smoove is a SF. Smoove gets 50ppg on the XBox and our Hawks always make the playoffs.

This is the only sound theory I can come up with as to why he wants to bench Marvin and play Smoove out of position at the 3. Hope this helps, Buzzard.

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he probably wants to start Smoove over Marvin because Marvin is a one trick pony of a player... Let's be honest that one trick isn't even a great one.. Smoove isn't flawless, but he should be starting over Marvin.

[Peoriabird]

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he probably wants to start Smoove over Marvin because Marvin is a one trick pony of a player... Let's be honest that one trick isn't even a great one.. Smoove isn't flawless, but he should be starting over Marvin.

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Guess Joe is a one trick pony too! Don't understand what you mean by one trick pony! Other than blocks, Marvin's second year numbers are very similar to Josh Smith's second year numbers!

[Plainview1981]

Other than shooting jumpers Marvin has pretty much no game. Him going to the basket is a blocked shot waiting to happen, his rebounding isn't overly impressive, his defense isn't all that impressive either. Obviousally he can improve, but he hasn't shown that he deserves to start over Smoove.

[Johann]

Great debate, but the fact is, we have Smooth, plus 3 other forwards in which we invested a #2, a #3, and a #5 pick respectively. The debate is not really a matter of which 2 (or 3) should get the minutes at forward, but whether one of them can play significant minutes at center. If not, a trade simply has to happen. Zaza cannot tote the load, by himself, for a playoff team.

[Dejay]

JJ: 23.2 ppg, 4.6 apg, 4.5 rpg, 46% fg

Smith: 16.7 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 2.4 bpg, 45% fg

Childress: 11.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 50% fg

MW: 13.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 45% fg

Horford: 9.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 48% fg

SW: 7.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 47% fg

Pachulia: 10.1 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 46% fg

Law: 8.8 ppg, 4.5 apg, 44% fg

Claxton: 6.4 ppg, 5.1 apg, 41% fg

Stoudamire: 5.7 ppg, 2.7 apg, 43% fg

Improvement? Yes. Enough to make the playoffs? Afraid not, folks (IMHO).

[Peoriabird]

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Other than shooting jumpers Marvin has pretty much no game. Him going to the basket is a blocked shot waiting to happen, his rebounding isn't overly impressive, his defense isn't all that impressive either. Obviousally he can improve, but he hasn't shown that he deserves to start over Smoove.

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Top 11 in rebounding for his position

Top 13 in Free throw shooting for his position

Top 14 Steal/turn-over ratio for his position

Top 15 in blocks per game for his position

Top 22 in double/double for his postion in 63 games

So he does other things! Marvin was hurt last year but I guess that doesn't count unless we are referring to players on other team!

[Popeye]

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We all know that Marvin is a much more skilled perimeter player

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Marvin = 24.4% from 3.

Smoove = 25% from 3.

Right... Right... Marvin = more skilled perimeter player??

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Last year D-Wade shot 26% from 3.

Antoine Walker shot 27% from 3 last season so do you think he is a better perimeter player than Wade.

Right on Diesel?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Other than shooting jumpers Marvin has pretty much no game.

Him going to the basket is a blocked shot waiting to happen

, his rebounding isn't overly impressive, his defense isn't all that impressive either. Obviousally he can improve, but he hasn't shown that he deserves to start over Smoove.

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First off, this isn't about him deserving to start over Smoove. But if it comes down to Marvin starting at SF or Smoove starting at SF . . lol . . I'm starting Childress, but that's another topic.

A stat junkie like me loves that nba.com/hotzones site. It tells a lot of truth about players.

As for Marvin going to the hole . .

Dec: 46% FG

Jan: 40% FG

Feb: 54% FG

Mar: 51% FG

Apr: 59% FG

Marvin is a whole lot closer to having a breakout season than people think. If he can finish around the rim at least 55% of the time all year, he'll be poised to have breakout offensive season.

By the way, go to that nba.com/hotzones site, and check out Luol Deng . . in 2005. Then check it in 2006. Amazing to see how the guy improved in his 3rd year. And he improved by almost abandoning the 3 point shot, and concentrating on being a deadly mid-range shooter and better finisher around the rim.

Sound familiar?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Great debate, but the fact is, we have Smooth, plus 3 other forwards in which we invested a #2, a #3, and a #5 pick respectively. The debate is not really a matter of which 2 (or 3) should get the minutes at forward, but whether one of them can play significant minutes at center. If not, a trade simply has to happen. Zaza cannot tote the load, by himself, for a playoff team.

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One of the things that I've been saying for over a year now, is that the future "center" of the Hawks might very well be JOSH SMITH.

Look at his positoin progression the past 3 seasons:

04 - 05: hybrid 2/3

05 - 06: played mainly the 3 . . with spot duty at the 4

06 - 07: hybrid 3/4 . . that also played the 5 on spot occasions

07 - 08: will mainly play the 4, while also possibly playing the 5.

Do you know of any other player that fits this mold? I do. He got a 5 year - 45 million dollar contract last summer, because he used his athleticism to take advantage of slower 4's and 5's.

One of Diesel's way of justifying Shelden playing center, is for the Hawks to play a lot of zone defense. If we did that, he could definitely man the middle, because he's a smart defensive player and an excellent rebounder.

When we try Horford at center, this same principle will probably apply to him as well. Horford should also be able to play good man to man defense in the post.

But this also could pretain to Smoove, because of his superior athletic ability and timing in blocking shots. In a zone, he'll also stay close to the basket in order to grab rebounds.

It's this facet of his game that's going to take Smoove to the next level, not his outside shooting. He's shown very little improvement in his outside shooting in his 3 years in the league, and there's no reason to believe that it will improve much next year.

But he has improved tremendously as a guy who can get to the rim against guys bigger and slower than him. And he's a better shot blocker and rebounder overall now too.

There's no reason why this kid can't be a 10 - 13 rebound per game guy in the league . . next year. But he has to become a guy who isn't afraid to battle, like Marion isn't afraid to.

Smoove has the mindset of a Rasheed Wallace, but the body and athleticism of Shawn Kemp.

I want to see more Kemp, and less Rasheed, out of Smoove.

[Diesel]

I would argue that Marvin's a better midrange shooter than Smoove...but part of that is because just about all of Marvin's shots come from the midrange. He's not a finisher. He's not a slasher (as some have said). He's a standstill Jumpshooter. BUT his range doesn't expand out to the three point line. Offensively... that's garbage.

Tell me for those who talk the agenda talk...

What can you really do with a guy who doesn't finish half of the time. Has no range from 3... and shoots 43%-44%... How does this help our team as a starter?

[Diesel]

I only brought up Smoove's better but still bad 3 pt shooting to prove that Marvin is NOT the better perimeter player.

In his career Smoove has shot better.

Moreover, I would rather have Smoove than Marvin PERIOD. Smoove rebounds, Block shots, and play in the flow of the game better than Marvin.

[Peoriabird]

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What can you really do with a guy who has no range from 3... and shoots 43%-44%... How does this help our team as a starter?

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Are you talking about Josh Smith again?

[Diesel]

I think that's your agenda.

When Marvin can block a shot or finish a fast break....

Let me know.

[Diesel]

I was just on NBA.com Hotzone..

Marvin's 48.4% from underneath is the worst of any starting SF in the league.

Chillz is shooting damn near 60% from underneath.

It's embarrassing.