Chillz vs. Marvin...why not?

[Vol4ever]

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But why does Marvin (if Smoove is playing the 4) have to be the starter?

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Because he is a better basketball player than childress!

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You are the biggest homer loser I ever seen. How he is a better basketball player? All Marvin can do is shoot thats it everything else he does a horrible job at. I have been saying it for months CHildress should be our starter because he has earned it and brings more to the table. Marvin is only a starter because he was the 2nd overall pick period. Right now Childress does more and brings more to the table then Marvin does theres no way around it. With Childress starting right now it gives us the best chance to win. Every starter we have has earned there spot except for Marvin this is bull if you ask me. We have to put the 5 best players out there to start the game that give us the best chance to win. Marvin needs to earn his starting spot just like everyone else the hype crap is over with.

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Come on now, heck Chillz couldn't hit a jump shot to save his life. Yep he is a good defensive player and can run the court on occasion, but you've got to be able to go to the basket and shoot the ball, and Chillz can't do either.

Chillz is a bench player in this league, the skills are just not there to be a starter.

[AtLaS]

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Chillz couldn't hit a jump shot to save his life.

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Correct, Marvin is a better set jumpshooter than Childress. But Childress is the better ballhandler, finisher inside, moves better without the ball, better rebounder, and is at least as good defensively. Until Marvin shows improvement, only someone who knows nothing about basketball can honestly say Marvin is better or deserves the SF position over Childress.

[Peoriabird]

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Until Marvin shows improvement, only someone who knows nothing about basketball can honestly say Marvin is better or deserves the SF position over Childress.

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Like the entire coaching staff, ownership, and GM!

[AtLaS]

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Chill is only better without the ball because

he exclusively plays off the ball.

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And Marvin doesn't?

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Marvin does take the ball to the rack, a rare thing for the Hawks. He gets to the line and will do better at that this year with a full season.

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Childress shoots 3.8 FT/g, Marvin 4.1. I'll take Childress's better production and better finishing inside over that extra 0.3 FT/g.

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Their numbers are not dramatically different right now.

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In terms of raw numbers? No. But in terms of FG% and eFG%, and PER Childress outperformed Marvin without question.

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But Marvin at 3 years younger who can get his own shot is a much better asset.

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Marvin can create his own shot? How? He has the catch, jab step, and jumpshot, but that's really all I've seen consistently. Other things I've only seen him do maybe 10x in the whole season. He doesn't even do them enough to call him inconsistent. It's more like "where did that come from?"

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Marvin just turned 21, he will be fine.

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Maybe so, but it doesn't mean he deserves to start over Childress right now IMO.

[AtLaS]

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Until Marvin shows improvement, only someone who knows nothing about basketball can honestly say Marvin is better or deserves the SF position over Childress.

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Like the entire coaching staff, ownership, and GM!

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Nice argument.

[Peoriabird]

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Until Marvin shows improvement, only someone who knows nothing about basketball can honestly say Marvin is better or deserves the SF position over Childress.

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Like the entire coaching staff, ownership, and GM!

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Nice argument.

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I guess it has to be because it is yours!

LOL, as bad as Mike Woodson is, he knows the game of basketball and he's been around it his entire life. Steve Spurrier was a HORRIBLE NFL coach, does that mean he doesn't know football? Michael Jordan is a horrible GM, does that mean he doesn't know the game? If Marvin was good enough, Mike Woodson would realize it. Not only that, there are about 10 assistants that coach the team as well, and Woodson listens to his assistants.

Sound familiar?

[AtLaS]

I guess you don't know what the word "deserves" means. They are playing him because he was selected #2 and they are going to give him every opportunity to succeed. They took a HUGE risk by selecting Marvin, they are damn sure going to give him a chance.

[Peoriabird]

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I guess you don't know what the word "deserves" means. They are playing him because he was selected #2 and they are going to give him every opportunity to succeed. They took a HUGE risk by selecting Marvin, they are damn sure going to give him a chance.

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Why didn't the same apply to Childress or Shelden? Why didn't they start because they were High picks?

[AtLaS]

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Why didn't the same apply to Childress or Shelden? Why didn't they start because they were High picks?

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Shelden DID start until Marvin returned and took his starting job because he was a higher draft pick. He was also 2nd in rookie voting at that point. Childress played over 36 minutes so I'd say he received enough PT. I'm done arguing with you if you think Marvin is as good as Childress based on last season, it's completely ridiculous.

You fall into the category of Hawk fans that know nothing about the game and act like they do, there's really no reason for debating with them, because half the time you don't even know what you're saying, why you said it, or what it means.

[Peoriabird]

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Shelden DID start until Marvin returned and took his starting job because he was a higher draft pick.[/qoute]

Shelden is a power forward and Marvin's return should not have had any effect on whether Shelden started over Josh Smith!

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Childress played over 36 minutes so I'd say he received enough PT.

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[/indent]

Josh Smith became a starter 30 games into his rookie season over Josh Childress. At the time they played the same position. Josh Childress was the 6 pick and Smith was the 17th. So obviously Woodson and the coaching staff doesn't only look at draft position like you are claiming!

[AtLaS]

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Josh Smith became a starter 30 games into his rookie season over Josh Childress

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30 games in? So how did Childress start 44 games on the year? Childress started more games and played more minutes with better production than Smith in his rookie year. You are clueless.

[Diesel]

As Long as Chris Paul and Deron Williams are amoung the best PGs in the league, BK has a mandate to play.

That's the simple stupidity of the whole matter.

[Peoriabird]

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Josh Smith became a starter 30 games into his rookie season over Josh Childress

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30 games in? So how did Childress start 44 games on the year? Childress started more games and played more minutes with better production than Smith in his rookie year. You are clueless.

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You do realize Josh Smith started 59 games his rookie season right? And how was Childress more productive? And of course the following year it wasn't even close. The point is that the coaching staff chose to start the more talented player over the higher pick. You have to realize that by now!

[TexasPete]

Childress would not start on about 25 NBA teams right now and his upside is limited. He isn't even starting on the Hawks and if he were that damn good he would be starting, #2 pick or not.

He was a poor pick. Maybe you haven't seen Marvin attack the rim off the dribble. He will do it with more frequency as he gets older but he still does it some now. He is hardly a one trick pony like Childress.

Chilldress is also overrated on defense. He's OK. Not great. He has heavy feet and gets beat off the dribble plenty. I'm not sure how he got his solid defensive rep but again, its from people who don't go the games. In other words, people whose opinions are to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Lascar78]

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Chilldress is also overrated on defense. He's OK. Not great. He has heavy feet and gets beat off the dribble plenty. I'm not sure how he got his solid defensive rep but again, its from people who don't go the games. In other words, people whose opinions are to be taken with a grain of salt.

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I agree. Although in all fairness most of the problem is that he is guarding 1's and 2's. When he is guarding 3's, he does fine. Not great, but ok. When he's on guards, he looks like JJ trying to guard a PG. He can kind of get away with it, but he's clearly out of position.

[TexasPete]

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. Chill is not a 2-guard at all in my opinion. He is not a great defender when guarding the 2 and he has trouble getting his own shot. He is also not likely to drive to the rack and finish from the perimeter in a half court set. Most teams would not view him at all as a SG. He is a perfect 3.

He is a nice intangibles guy. I believe he is very solid at coming off the bench. Let's not turn him into some kind of Marvin victim by the Marvin Haters of America.

Chill is also a nice garbage guy. Loose balls, tips, finishes on the break, nice rebounder, etc. What's wrong with that role?

[AtLaS]

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Josh Smith became a starter 30 games into his rookie season over Josh Childress

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30 games in? So how did Childress start 44 games on the year? Childress started more games and played more minutes with better production than Smith in his rookie year. You are clueless.

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You do realize Josh Smith started 59 games his rookie season right? And how was Childress more productive? And of course the following year it wasn't even close. The point is that the coaching staff chose to start the more talented player over the higher pick. You have to realize that by now!

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omg you are clueless. I guess Royal Ivey was a good PG in 05-06 since he started 66 games. Guess what, he only played 13 minutes a game! Smith started 59 games, Childress 44. Childress still received more playing time, scored more, and shot a higher percentage. And didn't you say Smith took Chill's starting job 30 games in? So how did he start 44 games?

[AHF]

My $.02 -

Childress played more than Smoove their rookie seasons. Both came on stronger as the year went along. Josh Smith came on stronger, though, and earned a higher spot in the team's heirarchy and future plans that season, IMO.

They weren't competing for starts against eachother, though. They both started. In fact, Childress started basically every game he played in the months of February, March and April (there is one game he didn't start).

[AtLaS]

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Childress would not start on about 25 NBA teams right now

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Neither would Marvin. TP I'm not disagreeing with you, but does that mean Childress shouldn't start over Marvin given their respective production from last season?

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He was a poor pick.

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Yes he was, but I consider the Marvin pick much worse, using either hindsight or foresight.

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Maybe you haven't seen Marvin attack the rim off the dribble.

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I have, it consists of him getting his lunch packed and the team running down loose balls.

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He will do it with more frequency as he gets older but he still does it some now. He is hardly a one trick pony like Childress.

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So what exactly does Marvin do better than Childress other than shooting jumpers?

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Chilldress is also overrated on defense. He's OK. Not great. He has heavy feet and gets beat off the dribble plenty. I'm not sure how he got his solid defensive rep but again, its from people who don't go the games. In other words, people whose opinions are to be taken with a grain of salt.

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I agree, it's the same with Deron Williams.

[AtLaS]

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My $.02 -

Childress played more than Smoove their rookie seasons. Both came on stronger as the year went along. Josh Smith came on stronger, though, and earned a higher spot in the team's heirarchy and future plans that season, IMO.

They weren't competing for starts against eachother, though. They both started. In fact, Childress started basically every game he played in the months of February, March and April (there is one game he didn't start).

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Yeah I remember that, Childress began the year playing horrible. We had Harrington and Walker at the 3 and 4, and Smith was playing pretty well early on, and this led to Smith playing SG. Childress began playing much more consistent, earned a starting job and ended the year very well.