Is Marvin your #2 pick on Hawks?

[Zone034life]

There has been alot of debate about Marvin Williams and his growth or non growth as a player.It got me to thinkin,"If some of these posters love Marvin so much would they pick him second in a draft of current Hawks players?"So thats the question I'm raising.If you had the number two pick in this draft would(Assuming Joe is #1)you dare draft Marvin over smooth.I realize there are many factors that can play into this such as, is it for one game or starting a franchise?Those two can be debated as well!To keep it simple in this draft it is you and another hawks fan drafting against each other.Here's a possible mock draft if someone would draft him second:

#1- Joe Johnson

#2-Marvin Williams

#3-Josh Smith

#4-Acie Law

#5-Josh Chilldress

#6-Al Horford

#7-Speedy Claxton

#8-Sheldon Williams

#9-ZaZa

#10-Salim

That would put the starting five against each other of:

Team A

PG-Speedy

SG-JJ

SF-J.chill

PF-J.Smoove

C-ZaZa

Team B

PG-Acie Law

SG-Salim

SF-Marvin Williams

PF-Al Horford

C-Sheldon Williams

These teams I know will ruffle alot of feathers and so will the draft but that is the way I would draft if I had the first pick!I will welcome anyone who wants to draft against me and I would encourage you to amongst yourselfs as well.What would your draft look like if you drafted against someone else?

[Final_quest]

Josh Smith was not in Marvin's draft. He may have been the #1 pick if he was. I don't think anyone would suggest they would take Marvin over Josh. Your question becomes more interesting if you assume JJ and Smoove are #1,2. Who would you take #3?

I think I would take Horford. Gotta go with the big man with upside. Probably take Acie Law next and then Marvin.

Have no idea what you are getting at with Team A and Team B? If you were trying to make a point please clarify.

[Peoriabird]

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There has been alot of debate about Marvin Williams and his growth or non growth as a player.It got me to thinkin,"If some of these posters love

Marvin so much would they pick him second in a draft of current Hawks players?"So thats the question I'm raising.If you had the number two pick in this draft would(Assuming Joe is #1)you dare draft Marvin over smooth.I realize there are many factors that can play into this such as, is it for one game or starting a franchise?Those two can be debated as well!To keep it simple in this draft it is you and another hawks fan drafting against each other.Here's a possible mock draft if someone would draft him second:

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[Zone034life]

I sure will clarify,I wasn't saying if smooth was in Marvins class where he would be drafted.I was saying if I was drafting against someone else using the players that are currently on the hawks roster.The Team A and B is a mock draft of how I think it would go if I were drafting against someone else using the current Hawks roster of players.Odd players are Team A(my team) and even are Team B(my guess of how someone else would draft).It is strictly based upon how I would rank the current Hawks on the roster and how I would draft them in a two team draft.If i'm Team A and I would draft JJ and you were team B and you drafted J-smoove my third pick would be Acie Law .If he is as advertised then he and JJ would be dynamic.Who would be your number 4 pick?

[atlien]

Id def take Smoove or Marvin. I would take Marvin 3rd though. Then Horford.

While Marvin has the skills to someday be a better pro than Smoove, Smoove is the more unique players and is a more of a certainty as of now.

Im glad we have them both though!

And yeah, I dont get your two team thing.

Also, the recent `debate` about Marvin has a lot to do with posters here who are overly harsh on the kid. See, I expected him to have a real learning curve coming into the league. I wasnt expectin much from him the first couple of seasons. Maybe too many here had overly high expectations? The kid was 20 years old last season!

[Zone034life]

This isn't just about Marvin Williams.It is about how you as a fan ranks the current players on the roster. It is about if you were in a two team draft of these players in what order would you take them off the board.There are many battles to be had such as Sheldon or ZaZa,Acie or Horford,J-chill or Marvin.These are some of the decisions that must be made if you were drafting using the current roster in a two team draft.You be the GM!!!!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I see what Diesel . . umm . . I mean Zone03 is saying. I'll do it a different way though.

Pick-up style basketball.

Captain 1 vs Captain 2 . . Capt. 1 gets 1st pick.

Capt. 1 - JJ

Capt. 2 - Smoove

Capt. 1 - JJ, Horford

Capt. 2 - Smoove, Marvin

Capt. 1 - JJ, Horford, Chill

Capt. 2 - Smoove, Marvin, Acie

Capt. 1 - JJ, Horford, Chill, Shelden

Capt. 2 - Smoove, Marvin, Acie, ZaZa

Capt. 1 - JJ, Horford, Chill, Shelden, Speedy

Capt. 2 - Smoove, Marvin, Acie, ZaZa, Salim

That's probably how it would go, if you were picking a team.

Capt. 1's team:

PG - Speedy

G - JJ

F - Chill

F - Horford

F/C - Shelden

Capt. 2's team:

PG - Acie

G - Salim

F - Marvin

F - Smoove

F/C - ZaZa

Damn, I honestly don't know which team I would put my money on. Capt. 1's team is much more defensive than Capt. 2's. But the offensive capabilities of Capt. 2's team can't be overlooked. The big advantage is obviously JJ vs Salim, but you could always move Acie to guard JJ, and let Salim take Speedy.

Marvin vs Chill . . good battle

Smoove vs Horford . . different styles but also a good battle

Shelden vs ZaZa . . same there.

It just goest to show how deep this team potentially is. And Lue and Solomon isn't even listed on these teams.

[Zone034life]

Good job North clyde!U got what I was tryin to do but made it your own and thats fine with me.You also seen the biggest difference in both teams as I did,JJ vs Salim!

[thesheedera]

Here's the problem with the Marvin debate. The anti-Marvin folks assume that a pro-Marv poster is unrealistic about his potential and blind to his shortcomings just because that poster supports Marv and takes up his case in arguments. They assume that we're so over the top that we probably think he's a sure-fire future hall of famer, and that we aren't capable of criticising him in any case.

The truth is that the pro-marvin folks are more objective than the anti-Marvin folks. I think there's a stronger sense of agenda with the anti folks, a sense of urgency to declare him a bust and win the debate. The pro folks meanwhile are more focused on enjoying the moment, watching him grow with cautious optimism and excitement. We're sensitive to him getting bashed (more than his occasional failures dictate that he should be) and we get emotional about backing him up, but that doesn't mean we are blind to reality. Frankly I believe Marvin has a ton to prove that he belongs in an legitimate NBA starting rotation, but I think his progression of maturity during his brief career is evidence enough to believe that he's on the right track.

I love Marv. He's automatically my favorite NBA guy because of his UNC ties and the fact that he's on my favorite pro team. His talent and character only make him that much easier to love.

That's enough rambling, here's how I'd draft the guys currently on the roster:

1 - Joe

2 - Smith - but he actually would have crossed my mind at #1

3 - Marvin - he's a full tier below the top two, he doesn't get consideration for one of those spots until he starts playing with the fire he played with as a college player. If he can take on a bigger leadership role as a 3rd year veteran that knows the ropes and starts to establish his identity, he can have that true "breakout" season we talk about so much.

4 - Law - you have to have a pg on your squad, and that's the only reason he's here above horford. I'm drinking the kool aid to some degree. I'm hoping he's all I;ve heard he's supposed to be.

5 - Hoford - at this point I'm again drinking the kool aid. I don't know enough to have a strong opinion, but everything I read and hear gets me very excited that he can be a prototype NBA PF/C.

6&7 tie - Zaza and Shelden - big men are so hard to find, but both of these guys fit the same role in my mind. They're guys that could get plugged in as the 5th player on any chamionship level starting 5 and I don't think they'd be anything other than a positive influence on the squad. The key is that they can't be one of your top 2 or 3 most dependable players. When placed in lineup tht demands too much of them, the become a liability for their team. On our squad we don't have enough to succeed without them, and so they tend to disappoint us. But you put these guys on a team with guys like Duncan or Nash, and they'd look pretty damn awesome.

8 - Childress - same type player as Zaza and Shelden, but I don't think he's as much of an asset to a team as the guys above would be. If he can become a lock down defender, then he'd jump above those other guys, but as of right now I don't think he does enough that can't be easily replaced with an inexpensive role player or a journeyman type. His "ceiling" is limited in my mind, but if he can get a calling card of being a great defender or a point foward type of player, his value to me will increase greatly.

9 -Salim - his ability to go of in any game any time is something you always want to have on the bench

10 - Speedy - I'm not convinced that Speedy just had a rough injury season last year. What is he's just finished? He has the most to prove this year in my opinion.

[TexasPete]

You just nailed it. The anti-Marvin crowd is a pretty zealous group. The people for Marvin realize that he is a work in progress and will continue to grow and improve. We all realize that he didnt come ready for stardom but he will develop into a player that is great for the Hawks...sooner now rather than later.

The hard part is over and the injury certainly set him back a year ago. Marvin will still have games where he doesnt do much but they will become fewer.

This is a high character guy who works hard. I've read things on here from one particular poster who says Marvin is lazy and disinterested. This poster just makes things up and then others buy the BS. I know for a fact that Marvin works hard, as hard as anybody on the team. And his focus and work ethic extend to the road where he stays in while his teammates go out.

Make no mistake, this kid wants to be good or even great. Just give him some time and be patient. It will all work out for him in the long run.

[AtLaS]

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I know for a fact that Marvin works hard, as hard as anybody on the team. And his focus and work ethic extend to the road where he stays in while his teammates go out.

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I'm not being smart, but how do you know this? I would like to read it if there's a link or something.

[TexasPete]

I have talked to Bernie Mullin and Bruce Levenson each several times about Marvin and their reports are amazingly positive about his work ethic. He watched more tape than anyone on the Hawks and always stays in on the road in his room getting ready and watching tape. He is a one trick pony, basketball and only basketball for Marvin. He really wants to be great and his work ethic proves it. I also know that a lot of his teammates kid him about staying in on the road, not even going out to dinner with the others guys.

He is a focused homebody, a class A citizen who has the focus to be very good in the league. He is also still close with his HS friends and does a lot in their community in Washington state. He is very down to Earth and just a great individual.

So, when I hear Diesel ragging Marvin about his "laziness" I know that he is full of crap. He doesn't have a clue who Marvin is and that is a fact. I have known about Marvin's approach for awhile and because of his drive and desire I am very optimistic. The Marvin Haters can go back to their regularly scheduled attacks now.

[AtLaS]

That's cool. I bash Marvin alot but my frustrations are still with BK more than anything. Marvin has always seemed like a really good person and I've always wanted him to succeed, it just pisses me off seeing how much talent he has and how he won't just relentlessly attack the basket. It's like he shys away when he goes into defenders. I know he's young, but it's frustrating.

I don't buy into Diesel's laziness comments or anything, the only time I've mentioned these things about Marvin is from Marvin's personal quotes. The ones about him being out of shape in workouts, not going to any games or watching the NBA, and the one where he said "we have JJ to create so I'm just trying to knock my shots down" or something. Hopefully he is working hard and blows up soon, I'm rooting for him as always, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Diesel]

My statement is that without offering up any excuses, can the pro Marvin fans show any improvement in his game going from year 1 to year 2?

BTW... Normalize his stats with mpg and you will see the ugly truth... (use per 40 stats if you will)..

[AtLaS]

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My statement is that

without offering up any excuses, can the pro Marvin fans show any improvement in his game going from year 1 to year 2?

BTW... Normalize his stats with mpg and you will see the ugly truth... (use per 40 stats if you will)..

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That's another one of my primary arguments.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

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My statement is that

without offering up any excuses, can the pro Marvin fans show any improvement in his game going from year 1 to year 2?

BTW... Normalize his stats with mpg and you will see the ugly truth... (use per 40 stats if you will)..

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per40 year2: 15.4ppg 6.2rpg

Not that bad for a 2nd year 21 yrs old.

[TexasPete]

Check out his last 4 weeks. After he settled down and JJ went down he stepped up. The guy wasn't 25 or 26 last year, he was 20. That isn't exactly at full potential.

Now, was Deron a better choice? Of course. But, we cannot go back and get a do over. We didn't get a bust, we got a guy who has some nice upside. He will still not please some on here this year but he will be a better player. He will never please one or two on here and it doesn't matter.

I think by age 23 or 24 he is going to be a beast. I think he will end up a better scorer than Smith. But, Smith will still likley be the overall better player because of the way he does everything else. Those two will make up a pretty potent forward tandem. Horford will likely be our 5 at that point and that front line will be fabulous.

[Zone034life]

Question,what are your expectations for Marvin Williams next season?What will be a good season for him next season?Would you be open to trading him if childress steps up and a big time player is available at the deadline?Does he have to break out this season or the season after?These are all just questions.To be honest,Marvin might make me the most upset while I watch a Hawks game than anyone.I often ask myself why someone with that quick of a first step doesn't use it more?Why is he being so passive on a team that only won 30 games?Why doesn't he block and rebound better?You see all these are questions that the young man poses in some fans minds.Hopefully he can answer some or most of them next season.Woody needs to give him the green light to do so as well.I know he is young and he didn't pick what team he got drafted by but " With Great Expectation Comes Great Responsibily ".I realize he is only 20 years old but he was the #2 overall pick.Now he must live up to the biling.Fair or not that is the way it is!

[Zone034life]

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6&7 tie - Zaza and Shelden - big men are so hard to find, but both of these guys fit the same role in my mind. They're guys that could get plugged in as the 5th player on any chamionship level starting 5 and I don't think they'd be anything other than a positive influence on the squad. The key is that they can't be one of your top 2 or 3 most dependable players. When placed in lineup tht demands too much of them, the become a liability for their team. On our squad we don't have enough to succeed without them, and so they tend to disappoint us. But you put these guys on a team with guys like Duncan or Nash, and they'd look pretty damn awesome.

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Good analysis overall but I am curious on who you think should start at the five out of these two next season.Also,if you had to choose to trade one of them today which would you prefer to trade and which would you rather keep?Keep in mind ZaZa is still young as well!

[Diesel]

You and JSmith just bantered about age this and age that... Really that's an excuse and still you didn't answer the question...

Where's the Improvement from year 1 to year 2?

Really... he was probably better as a rookie.

You would have me to say... Yeah, let's get rid of JJ so that Marvin can play better? That's what your post specifically says TP... "When JJ went down Marvin stepped up his game"...

Well, I can't speak for everybody, but I want Marvin to step up his game while JJ is playing! If he can't, then maybe putting Chillz in the starting lineup is the right thing to do!