Is Marvin your #2 pick on Hawks?

[Diesel]

1. Joe Johnson. self explanatory

2. Josh Smith. Too many intangibles.

3. Acie Law. We've seen what not having a PG is like.

4. Josh Childress. When Allowed, he's the best Sf we have.

5. Shelden Williams. Big presence will improve rebounding, Defense.

6. Zaza. Offense in the low post. He needs to improve his defense. I still think he was a Steal!!

7. Marvin Williams. So far, all he does is take up space.

8. Speedy Claxton. Has the ability to be so much higher.

9. Horford. He will turn out to be a prototypical PF who doesn't score so much but is solid.

10. Salim. Probably the best shooter and most driven player we have. It will be a huge loss when he goes elsewhere and blows up. Still, he still have some major tweener issues.

11. Lue. Definitely a leader in the lockerroom and a veteran for this team. His scoring has been clutch for our young Hawks. But he doesn't really fit. He slows the game down and doesn't "run" the offense.

12. Solomon. Watching this guy develop would have been fun, but now with Horford, it will be hard for Solo Man to ever become.

13. AJ. I like AJ a lot as a vet PG, I just think we're stacked.

14. Lo. When you look at Lo, Statwise, he's not bad. When you watch the game, he's terrible as ever.

[Peoriabird]

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Well, I can't speak for everybody, but I want Marvin to step up his game while JJ is playing!

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Or a more plausible explaination, one which is accepted by the coaches, gm, and ownership is that Marvin got better when his broken hand got better! And he didn't have to wear that glove. Now If you want to throw stones at someone who got better in JJ's absence with no other plausible explaination other than JJ's absence, that would be Josh Smith! But tell anyone though!

[TexasPete]

Marvin made a lot more progress as the season wore on. He started with the brace, got into a horrible shooting slump, and then took the better part of 6-weeks to find his stroke again. I don't care if you don't think the brace was legit, I know shooting, and I can tell you that anything on either hand can easily throw off the shot. The fact that he got much better the longer the brace was off isn't surprising to anyone who understands basketball, which excludes you from the converstaion.

You have made a lot of Shelden's last month but the raging hippocrate in you won't let you acknowledge Marvin's last month. Again, not surprising.

I expect Marvin to go for 14-16ppg, improve his rebounding, improve his defense, and just be better all around. The fact that we have more options now will likely lead to small increases in average but I would expect to see a better all around player this year.

FWIW, I also would hope JJ's scoring to drop a couple of points as we rely less on him and more on the core.

[thesheedera]

Starting - I don't know. I like Zaza's game but he's not the type of center (yet) with whom you can feed him the ball early and often and watch him establish a presence inside that sets the tone of a game. He could become that guy if he can be more efficient with his scoring, make better decisions when to make a move and when to pass out, and protect the ball better, but he isn't that guy yet.

Shelden's a more dependable player overall. He doesn't have the offensive skills that Zaza showcases from time to time, but he doesn't make nearly as many mistakes and poor decisions, either. He relishes in the dirty work mindset.

The problem is that I could see Zaza crumbling if he's not the starter. I could see his emotion getting the best of him and I wouldn't be surprised if he became disgruntled and started making noise about going elsewhere to be a starter. Maybe that's not fair, but it's my perception of the guy. His heart is a big asset but also it gets him in trouble.

I wouldn't want to trade either of them but if I had to I'd let Zaza go first. Until he shows that he can be an elite center I'd rather have the dependable guy that dominates the dirty work.

[Dsinner]

Hold up. It's funny how some of you are so quick to right off Marvin yet still continue to believe Sheldon will improve. And the ones who continue to bash Sheldon yet still believe Marvin will break out. You can't have it both ways. BOTH have shown signs of improvment and BOTH will improve into quality NBA players. Bank it.

[KB21]

That is about where I think Marvin's scoring will average out at for this season. Post AS Break, Marvin was averaging over 14 PPG this past season. I think that is the floor of what he will do this year. I do believe that if Woody would ever increase Marvin's role in the offense, his numbers would sky rocket. Personally, I think Marvin should be the #2 option on offense.

[Dsinner]

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Hold up. It's funny how some of you are so quick to

right off

Marvin yet still continue to believe Sheldon will improve. And the ones who continue to bash Sheldon yet still believe Marvin will break out. You can't have it both ways. BOTH have shown signs of improvment and BOTH will improve into quality NBA players. Bank it.

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Doh...write-off I meant write

[Diesel]

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Marvin made a lot more progress as the season wore on. He started with the brace, got into a horrible shooting slump, and then took the better part of 6-weeks to find his stroke again.

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January 15 33.3 4.6-10.7 42.857 0.1-0.7 .182 2.5-3.1 78.723 0.73 0.33 1.7 2.0 1.4 3.5 4.9 2.7 11.8

February 14 33.2 4.6-10.1 45.775 0.0-0.1 .000 4.0-4.6 86.154 0.86 0.57 1.4 2.9 0.8 4.5 5.3 1.5 13.3

March 14 33.1 4.6-10.7 42.667 0.2-0.7 .300 3.2-3.7 86.538 0.71 0.36 1.9 2.9 1.4 4.5 5.9 1.7 12.6

April 9 40.6 6.6-14.3 45.736 0.0-0.2 .000 3.7-4.9 75.000 0.89 0.67 2.6 3.4 1.6 4.7 6.2 2.2 16.8

In short what the numbers say is that Marvin's ppg increased from Jan to Feb... droped from Feb to March then rose again from March to April... The funny part is that He played many more minutes in April.

I suggest to you that if you do the math, his number rose with his mpg... at a constant rate. i.e. there was no improvement.

[Zone034life]

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Hold up. It's funny how some of you are so quick to right off Marvin yet still continue to believe Sheldon will improve. And the ones who continue to bash Sheldon yet still believe Marvin will break out. You can't have it both ways. BOTH have shown signs of improvment and BOTH will improve into quality NBA players. Bank it.

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Actually i'm not a fan of Sheldon or Marvin Williams.I believe they both were poor selections by Billy Knight.It is bitter sweet to root for them for different reasons.For Marvin because he is talented but does not show it while he is on the court to often.As for sheldon,its not his fault he is limited athletically and height wise but he is.And he was not last season or in the RMR the defensive and overall dependable player people say he is! While I support the Hawks these two are far from my favorites!

[Zone034life]

Thanks for replying on my question.Its always interesting to hear other fans perspective on players on the team.While I disagree with your points I do respect them.While many of my friends,coworkers and myself don't think highly of Sheldon Williams you and other posters seem to.I just haven't seen him do the dirty work he was brought in to bring!

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I expect Marvin to go for 14-16ppg, improve his rebounding, improve his defense, and just be better all around. The fact that we have more options now will likely lead to small increases in average but I would expect to see a better all around player this year.

FWIW, I also would hope JJ's scoring to drop a couple of points as we rely less on him and more on the core.

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Thanks for sharing your expectations for Marvin this season.While we might disagree on what he has done in the past,we all know the Hawks need him moving forward to play well.I'll just take the believe it when I see it approach and you and some others will take the I know it will happen with time approach!

[AHF]

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Marvin made a lot more progress as the season wore on. He started with the brace, got into a horrible shooting slump, and then took the better part of 6-weeks to find his stroke again.

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January 15 33.3 4.6-10.7 42.857 0.1-0.7 .182 2.5-3.1 78.723 0.73 0.33 1.7 2.0 1.4 3.5 4.9 2.7 11.8

February 14 33.2 4.6-10.1 45.775 0.0-0.1 .000 4.0-4.6 86.154 0.86 0.57 1.4 2.9 0.8 4.5 5.3 1.5 13.3

March 14 33.1 4.6-10.7 42.667 0.2-0.7 .300 3.2-3.7 86.538 0.71 0.36 1.9 2.9 1.4 4.5 5.9 1.7 12.6

April 9 40.6 6.6-14.3 45.736 0.0-0.2 .000 3.7-4.9 75.000 0.89 0.67 2.6 3.4 1.6 4.7 6.2 2.2 16.8

In short what the numbers say is that Marvin's ppg increased from Jan to Feb... droped from Feb to March then rose again from March to April... The funny part is that He played many more minutes in April.

I suggest to you that if you do the math, his number rose with his mpg... at a constant rate. i.e. there was no improvement.

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I haven't analyzed the ppm, but Marvin showed improvement in his per minute numbers after he got healthy.

Remember, the Hollinger analysis declaring Marvin Williams one of the most improved players in the league over the course of the season?

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Williams has been a much more aggressive offensive player ever since the fourth quarter of the New Jersey game on Feb. 7, when he got matched up against a bigger player and seemingly realized for the first time that he was allowed to dribble. He took 12 foul shots in the fourth quarter that night, and since then has been a steadier offensive weapon.

In equal minutes, he put up 11.9 points and 4.6 boards on 40.9 percent shooting before the break, and 13.3 points, 6.0 boards and 44.7 percent shooting afterward.

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MW PER through Jan 22 - 9.9

After through the date of the article - 13.18

Clear per minute improvement in productivity.

[Diesel]

Unfortunately , his PER for this year was no better than his PER from his rookie Season.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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That is about where I think Marvin's scoring will average out at for this season. Post AS Break, Marvin was averaging over 14 PPG this past season. I think that is the floor of what he will do this year. I do believe that if Woody would ever increase Marvin's role in the offense, his numbers would sky rocket. Personally, I think Marvin should be the #2 option on offense.

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I agree. But more important for me, is what he'll shoot from the field. I want him somewhere around the 47% FG range. To up his FG% to that level, he'll need to finish around the basket close to the 55% range, which is exactly what he did in his rookie year. Anything above that percentage around the rim, and he may completely blow up this year.

His 3-point range doesn't concern me, if he's committed to being a 21 feet and in player. That's exactly what Luol Deng did last year, and it helped his game tremendously.

Deng only took 6 threes total last season. In 05 - 06 he took 75 threes. Deng found his niche as a player . . to be a mid-range demon from the right side of the court, that finished around the rim at a 63% clip.

[TexasPete]

I think we all understand two things...

1. Diesel's agenda against all things Marvin.

2. Diesel's astonishing lack of sense in anything where numbers are analyzed.

[cordele]

marvin scored most of his points in the first qrt. when jj often did not take the lead role in scoring. because there was not real steady ball movement with speedy and lou hurt most of the time it was up to jj to distrbute but he always had two or three defenders on him and both marvin and chill scoring went down after the first. if speedy and law can run a offence the whole game will see what both of them can do a that will allow jj to be even better then last year.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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marvin scored most of his points in the first qrt. when jj often did not take the lead role in scoring. because there was not real steady ball movement with speedy and lou hurt most of the time it was up to jj to distrbute but he always had two or three defenders on him and both marvin and chill scoring went down after the first. if speedy and law can run a offence the whole game will see what both of them can do a that will allow jj to be even better then last year.

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Totally agree. Sounds like a guy who watched the games.

[TexasPete]

Our offense gets so stagnant it's hard to watch at times. There are times Marvin and others just stand and watch JJ go one on one and then shoot a jumpshot.

Woody permits this stuff. If we could ever get to a point where nobody cared who scored, we would win a lot of games.

That isn't likely to happen in an NBA where my star against your star is the name if the game.

And they wonder why Argentina and Greece kick our ass in world play.

[Dsinner]

Sorry. I didn't mean you particularly. I have a bad habit of simply replying to the last post I read.

[bumpyphish1]

I'm sorry to chime in on this [censored]-fest but there is no way this subject should still be discussed.

Picks (in order):

1. JJ

2. Smoove

3. Horford

4. MARVIN

5. Acie

6. Chills

7/8. Zaza and Shelden

Absolutely, that is the order it would go. 110%

[Traceman]

Tier 1:

JJ and Smoove

Tier 2:

Marvin and Horford

Tier 3:

Chillz and Acie

Tier 4:

Shelden and Zaza

Tier 5:

Speedy, Lue and Salim

Tier 6:

Solomon

Tier 7:

Lo and AJ

I see the first 2 tiers (Tier 1 and Tier 2) as the guys we will build the franchise around with the Tier 1 guys being the "franchise guys" and the Tier 2 guys being just a notch below them but integral to the team's success.

I see the next 2 tiers (Tier 3 and Tier 4) as the "glue guys." The glue guys will all fill essential roles with the guys in Tier 3 being more important (starting PG* and 6th man).

Tier 5 guys will fill specific team needs.

Tier 6 is the developmental guy.

Tier 7 is expendable veteran depth.

* - I think Acie will be our starting PG by season's end one way or another.