AJC Article on Marvin

[Dsinner]

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The year Jordan won his first title he came into camp out of shape and played his way into shape. His idea of working out that summer was walking the golf course instead of riding a cart.

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Really? I always thought different.

Anyway, it's an even better reason to not compare the two. Jordan was so good he didn't need to put in the extra work. Marvin...I'll let you decide.

My statments in this thread aren't related to the interview BTW. Simply on the reply to Jordan.

[Diesel]

MJ was rookie of the year.. and a dominate player in his early years... So was Bird..

BTW....

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Throughout his life, Michael displayed an amazing capacity to improve himself through practice. He was driven and he was always the hardest working player on the team in practice. If his teammates were not working hard enough, he got on them himself to work harder, and pushed the coaches to expect more from the team. His coach, Phil Jackson says Michael never took his talent for granted. He put in gym time in the off-season, shooting hundreds of shots each day. He studied his opponents, learned their moves and dedicated himself to mastering the techniques necessary to stop them.

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[thesheedera]

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I just think that in Marvin's position, he has no reason to not better himself in his offtime...

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WHICH HE HAS BEEN DOING

He said as summer school started (middle of may) he was working out at 7:00, doing school, then playing basketball. He had a trainer to work with as well.

He said that later on (and we don't know if that means a week, two weeks, a month, or what) he got insight from an assistant coach as to what he should focus on in in particular in the offseason.

Several posters are taking his quotes out of context and making it appear that he's had a lack of basketball training and/or exposure over the offseason, which isn't true according to the interview.

His interview focused LESS on school and non basketball related things than Childress' did. Yet no one questions Childress' offseason.

Read the interviews with objectivity and you'll feel your heart rate calm down and you MAY find yourself thinking rationally.

[gsuteke]

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Do you really think College makes you a better person?

Iverson went to Georgetown U for a number of years.

Vick went to my school VTECH....

There are people who learned what college is trying to teach you and some who don't...and there are some people who never make it to college who turn out pretty good.

However, the experience at College is not going to make anybody a better person. It's not guaranteed to make anyone more mature.

What makes a person a better person is Character and Experience.

IF your character is messed up going in, college won't necessarily fix it.

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half-truths.

Vick had to go to college. And of course, they were going to find a way to keep him academically eligible. Vick was a knucklehead yes, however going to VA Tech proabably kept him out of trouble longer than he would have been able to otherwise.

As for Iverson was he eligible to enter the NBA out of High School? I would think not as Kenny Anderson and Stephon Marbury surely weren't college material. Don't get me started on that joke Maryland put on with letting Steve Francis go to school there.

And to answer your question I do think going to college helps you to become a better person for a few reasons.

a. it eases the transition into adulthood

b. it provides structure

c. to a lesser extent yes I think learning in an academic environment helps you develop critical thinking skills which in turn translate positively into everyday life, on and off the athletic playing field

[exodus]

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Throughout his life, Michael displayed an amazing capacity to improve himself through practice. He was driven and he was always the

hardest working player on the team in practice

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They don't hold practices during the summer.

[exodus]

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Really? I always thought different.

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As he got older he started to pay more attention to conditioning. When he was younger he didn't do much of anything on his own.

[Packfill]

I don't think there is any question MJ was one of the hardest workers in the sport, whether that be in games, in practice or during the off-season.

[thesheedera]

EDS - agreed. Jordan was leegndary for the work he put in - constantly.

But it's moot, because there's no evidence that Marvin hasn't been putting the necessary work in.

[Diesel]

Better himself as a basketball player.

He's making enough money that he will always be able to pay for school.

Lifting weights is good, but it's not basketball. That's the minimum.

Marvin should want to play... He should want to work on his deficient areas. Coming back shouldn't be something he's pressured into doing, he should have been glad when somebody said, let's meet up at the Phil and begin practices among ourselves.

His "thinking" or attitude doesn't really fit.

[exodus]

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I don't think there is any question MJ was one of the hardest workers in the sport, whether that be in games, in practice or during the off-season.

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That would be wrong.

Certainly he was one of the most competitive practice players ever. But he didn't even START lifting weights until he had been in the league over 5 years. And he didn't do anything other than play golf during the offseason for many years.

[Packfill]

I don't believe that.

[AtLaS]

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Compared to Marvin i could say that Jordan and Bird were lazy bums during the summer.

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Maybe I'm understanding you wrong, but Jordan was a lazy bum in the summer? Work ethic is one thing that Jordan cannot be criticized about. He had one of the hardest work ethics in the history of sports.

[thesheedera]

So at what point in his offseason was he not involved in basketball? You must know more than what was in that article.

Accoring to the interview:

End of season - Middle of may: unknown - not addressed in interview

Middle of May - summer school, 7:00 am workouts, basketball in the afternoon

"Some time later" - specific basketball somethings as directed by assistant coach

That's all that was said. According to the interview alone it's possible he played every single day.

You're stretching it into something it's not...once again.

I'm not surprised, of course.

[AHF]

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"I've never seen him work harder than he did last summer [1995]," said Grover. "The very next day after the Bulls were eliminated, Michael started working out. It was the earliest I have ever seen him start. I used to have to schedule his workouts during spare time away from a golf game. But for the first time, golf took a set back."

As did just about everything else. Though Jordan's summer schedule remained packed with commercial shoots, one of which included two days in the desert, and charity work, basketball, for the first time since the summer before his rookie season in 1984, became the top priority.

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http://www.nba.com/jordan/hoop_feb96.html

[Diesel]

The evidence you seek is the improvement in his play.

I can't believe exodus would suggest that all Jordan did is walk golf courses during the offseason... Huh???

Jordan would seek out people to scrimmage (over and over again ) in the offseason.

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The thing about Michael is he takes nothing about his game for granted," said Phil Jackson, who shared Jordan's six title rings while coaching the Bulls. "When he first came into the league in 1984, he was primarily a penetrator.

His outside shooting wasn't up to pro standards. So he put in his gym time in the offseason, shooting hundreds of shots each day. Eventually, he became a deadly three-point shooter.

"

He led the NBA in scoring a record 10 times with a 31.5 points per game average, another all-time mark. What made the achievement even more remarkable was that he did so while playing the other end of the floor as well. Nine times he was named to the NBA's All-Defensive First Team, and in 1988, he was named NBA Defensive Player of the Year.

"Playing outstanding defense didn't come automatically to him, either," Jackson said. "He had to study his opponents, learn their favorite moves and then dedicate himself to learning the techniques necessary to stop them. He has worked extremely hard to perfect his footwork and balance."

As Jordan embarked upon his teardown of the perception that a supreme scorer could never be a champion, he was also distinguishing himself personally from all other athletes. In a 1980s world newly impressed by ESPN, MTV and the worldwide media explosion, Jordan shaved his skull, wore audacious red sneakers and let the hem of his shorts flirt with his knees. He didn't invent the fashions, just as he didn't invent the smile and the wink, but he combined all of them in such an engaging manner that the once-unsightly affectations became trendy, and his image became nearly as admirable as his unsurpassed skills.

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What part of Marvin's game has improved?

Yr 1 to Yr 2 = No improvement.

[exodus]

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I don't believe that.

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He said it himself. I think it was in Air Time (one of his videos) where he talks about the fact that he started lifting weights mainly to cope with the way Detroit beat him up. And that wasn't until his team was a title contender after he had been in the league for years. And his offseason habits were a running joke with him.

When he got older he realized he couldn't get away with not working so he worked as hard as anyone in his 30s. In his early 20s, not so much.

[TexasPete]

Jordan worked like a maniac all summer long on his game....

His GOLF GAME. If you dispute his penchant for golf almost with every free moment that he ever got, you dont know Jordan. Jordan stayed in shape, yes, and I'm sure he played some basketball. But he golfed his ass off all summer.

That is not even up for debate.

[exodus]

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"I've never seen him work harder than he did last summer

[1995

]," said Grover. "The very next day after the Bulls were eliminated, Michael started working out. It was the earliest I have ever seen him start.

I used to have to schedule his workouts during spare time away from a golf game. But for the first time, golf took a set back."

As did just about everything else. Though Jordan's summer schedule remained packed with commercial shoots, one of which included two days in the desert, and charity work, basketball, for the first time since the summer before his rookie season in 1984, became the top priority.

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http://www.nba.com/jordan/hoop_feb96.html

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Jordan was drafted in 1984. This quote is about 1995.

And you can see as he got older his workouts took a higher priority. Even in the early 90s golf took priority over workouts.

[thesheedera]

Negative Diesel, you're changing the subject again. This thread is about the interview in the AJC.

You and others are taking this interview as evidence that Marvin isn't focused, or isn't driven, or isn't working hard enough. The article doesn't indicate those things if you understand the timeline that Marvin's referring to. I bring the correct timeline up (summer school starting in May, which means for all we know he's been working on specific basketball areas for over 3 months), and you want to change the subject to improvement in the past.

[AtLaS]

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Jordan worked like a maniac all summer long on his game....

His GOLF GAME. If you dispute his penchant for golf almost with every free moment that he ever got, you dont know Jordan. Jordan stayed in shape, yes, and I'm sure he played some basketball. But he golfed his ass off all summer.

That is not even up for debate.

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That doesn't mean he was a "lazy bum" all summer as exodus said.