AJC Article on Marvin

[Diesel]

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Tons of guys make the promise that they'll get their degree when they leave school early for the NBA; you appear to be serious about that. Is it just something you made your mind up about doing or is there some other motivation?

A. My whole life I've been one of those people that if I start something, I finish it. That's how my mother raised me and my brothers. I told myself I'm going to finish.

And I know a lot of professional athletes have careers that don't last very long. If something happens to me, God forbid, I will have that degree in my hand when I have to go out there and get a job.

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Sorry Marvin, but working toward your second contract will be much more profitable than a degree in African American History. Tell me, what can you do with a B.A. in African American History that will "Save" you if you lose your basketball career? Teach High School? Work at a Museum?

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What about your basketball career thus far, did you assess your game after two years in the NBA and come to any conclusions about where you are and where you need to be headed for the future?

A. I feel like I'm in a good place right now.

I've only been in the league for two years. I think people have to remember that was I was just 19 when I got here. I mean, I've got a little bit of facial hair now, finally. Really I just got it (laughing).

But I'm getting older and getting smarter. And for me it's just about preparation, trying to get your body ready for the rigors of a season and making sure your mind is ready for everything that comes along with that.

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You know for me.. this really gets my goat. Did he just make excuses for himself? I hate that. I would rather him talk about what he's going to do than why he's been a failure thus far. It screams of complacency. He starts off saying "I'm in a good place right now." Really?? What you have been producing is good. Moreover, he goes on to give reasons why he sucks.. Man, this guy is typical bust.

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How big of a help is being able to escape to Chapel Hill and work on things there with other pros and the people affiliated with the Tar Heels program?

A. It's the perfect set-up for me. Sean [May, the Charlotte Bobcats forward] was my roommate again this summer. And really it's just a revolving door of guys that come back there to work out with. But honestly, when the summer [school] session started I really wasn't doing too much basketball-related stuff. I'd get up at 7 and lift weights and then go to class at 9:30 and then play some later in the day after I was done studying.

It wasn't until a little bit later in the summer when I caught up with [Hawks assistant coach Greg Fizdale] and he gave me some things to work on that I really started honing in on my game like that.

But all of it helps. And you can always learn from somebody.

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In other words, had he not caught up with Greg, he would not have worked on his game "like that". Here's my question.. Shouldn't Marvin know his weak spots? All those years of AAU ball, 1 year of college, 2 years in the pros, shouldn't he know what areas he suck in?

[Dsinner]

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"I've never seen him work harder than he did last summer

[1995

]," said Grover. "The very next day after the Bulls were eliminated, Michael started working out. It was the earliest I have ever seen him start.

I used to have to schedule his workouts during spare time away from a golf game. But for the first time, golf took a set back."

As did just about everything else. Though Jordan's summer schedule remained packed with commercial shoots, one of which included two days in the desert, and charity work, basketball, for the first time since the summer before his rookie season in 1984, became the top priority.

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http://www.nba.com/jordan/hoop_feb96.html

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Jordan was drafted in 1984. This quote is about 1995.

And you can see as he got older his workouts took a higher priority. Even in the early 90s golf took priority over workouts.

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Yeah, but you said he didn't workout during the summer AT ALL until after he won his first championship. Which, as AHF just proved, is false.

So like I said, Jordan didn't become "Jordan" until he put in the extra work.

[thesheedera]

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Sorry Marvin, but working toward your second contract will be much more profitable than a degree in African American History. Tell me, what can you do with a B.A. in African American History that will "Save" you if you lose your basketball career? Teach High School? Work at a Museum?

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So because of his choice of major this is somehow worse than Childress working on his degree? Where's the outrage about other players working on degrees in the offseason?

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You know for me.. this really gets my goat. Did he just make excuses for himself? I hate that. I would rather him talk about what he's going to do than why he's been a failure thus far. It screams of complacency. He starts off saying "I'm in a good place right now." Really?? What you have been producing is good. Moreover, he goes on to give reasons why he sucks.. Man, this guy is typical bust.

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He doesn't think he's been a bust or a failure, and neither do I, so the quote about his age doesn't bother me liek it bothers you. Because I don't think he "sucks", I don't interpret this as making excuses. I underrstand your frustration with this part, because you have a different opinion on what he's been so far as a pro.

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In other words, had he not caught up with Greg, he would not have worked on his game "like that". Here's my question.. Shouldn't Marvin know his weak spots? All those years of AAU ball, 1 year of college, 2 years in the pros, shouldn't he know what areas he suck in?

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You're putting words into his mouth. You read it as the coach had to contact him to get him working, but that's not in the context of his quote. For all you know he called Greg to discuss it. For all you know he called Greg not to find out WHAT he needs to work on, but rather HOW to work on it. Maybe he wanted to discuss specific drills. Maybe he wanted to know what direction the team wanted him to go in. He probably has his own opinions, but any responsible employee looks to their employer for feedback on what the employer wants from them.

As you pointed out, Marvin has a lot he needs to work on. Setting priorities with workouts is important to fit into the grand scheme of what the team wants to do, and how they want to use him.

[Diesel]

The bottom line in the Jordan continuations we see here is that Jordan was the most dominant player (36 ppg) at that time... His game didn't need much tuning up because he was already a dominant player.

Marvin is a 13 ppg player who is inconsistent and lacks aggressiveness. MJ has more aggression in his middle toe that Marvin has in his whole body..

Do they offer classes in Aggressiveness and Low post scoring and outside shooting at UNC?

If So, Marvin needs to Audit!!

[exodus]

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Yeah, but you said he didn't workout during the summer AT ALL until after he won his first championship. Which, as AHF just proved, is false.

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First of all AHF's post didn't prove anything false. His quote was from 1995. I was talking about the 80s.

And secondly i said Jordan didn't lift weights at all for his first few years in the league which is a fact. I even gave you a video reference where he admitted it himself.

And after he broke his foot his second year in the league he became leery of pickup games in general. He may have played a few during the summer here and there but the idea that Jordan was some kind of offseason workout fiend at Marvins age is a joke.

But he was definitely a natural. Iverson was the same way. He wouldn't work out all summer then he would come to camp and run a 5:30 mile.

[Packfill]

I guess I stand corrected. Whatever he did, he always had the legs to carry the Bulls in the playoffs.

[pimp]

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"I've never seen him work harder than he did last summer

[1995

]," said Grover. "The very next day after the Bulls were eliminated, Michael started working out. It was the earliest I have ever seen him start.

I used to have to schedule his workouts during spare time away from a golf game. But for the first time, golf took a set back."

As did just about everything else. Though Jordan's summer schedule remained packed with commercial shoots, one of which included two days in the desert, and charity work, basketball, for the first time since the summer before his rookie season in 1984, became the top priority.

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http://www.nba.com/jordan/hoop_feb96.html

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Jordan was drafted in 1984. This quote is about 1995.

And you can see as he got older his workouts took a higher priority. Even in the early 90s golf took priority over workouts.

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What does Jordan and Bird work etic have to do with Marvin

anyway?They were already dominate players as soon as they stepped foot on the court in there rookie seasons.

While Marvin has not dominated a single game yet.

Jordan avg 28 ppg in his rookie year on 51% fg

Larry Bird avg 21ppg 10rpg on 47%fg and 40%3pt in his rookie year.Won a championship in his second year.

You can afford to be "lazy bums" in the summer when you are

all ready dominating your sport.

It would make more sense to compare Marvin's work ethic to someone who really needed to improved as much as Marvin does. Instead of comparing him to guys who were allstars in their rookle year.

[mrhonline]

This thread must be the worst use of bandwidth ever recorded on HS.

How long until preseason? Will we kill each other first?

[exodus]

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What does Jordan and Bird work etic have to do with Marvin

anyway?

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Because the issue of the thread seems to be Marvin's "lack" of summer work ethic. But how significant is summer work? Not very unless the player is totally doing nothing then he will fall behind.

The reality is that the NBA season lasts 7 months (including camp). That is a lot of basketball and having played a lot (but obviously not as intensively) i can say that it takes a toll.

As long as a player is running, lifting, doing some drills to improve his game and playing a few pickup games that is enough as far as i am concerned. All indications are that Marvin has done that.

If i was in the NBA i probably wouldn't play many full court games in the summer. I would probably focus more on half court games (3 on 3) where you get the ball more often and can focus on your moves without the wear and tear on the body you get in full court games.

I just watched Jordan's video "Air Time" again (great video btw) which was made in the summer of 1992 after they won their second title. He says clearly that he started lifting 2.5 years ago which means he wasn't lifting in the 80s.

[chillzatl]

and in the grand scheme of things, that's really what all fans do and that's fine I guess, but why not take a minute to look at what he said logically and honestly. You just focus on one sentence out of what was probably a 1 hour interview and drag it behind the dead horse you've been riding for two years now, beating it the whole way.

The NBA off-season is SIX MONTHS long. Most players take two months or more off after the season. Nobody, even rookies, works on their games non-stop. So Marvin took that time to go back to school and get his degree and what do you know, he didn't focus much on basketball during that time. Does that mean wasn't shooting some jumpers or playing some pickup games? No. But he wasn't "working on his game" and guess what, NOBODY else was either. Because they're all taking time off away from the game. Rather than see the reality in that and show some realistic understanding, you just go completely over the top OOOOH See Marvin isn't serious about this, OOOOoooOoh, he should be working on his game NON FREAKIN STOP....I mean give me a break. It's just silly, the lengths of absurdity you'll go to sometimes to stir the pot, just to get under peoples skin, is just plain silly man.

Marvin left himself more time than he would likely be advised to actually use by the Hawks org to work on his game. He's doing nothing abnormal and nothing to suggest that he's not serious or just doesn't care. If he comes out this season and blows it, then bash him till your hearts content. Just don't take something you don't understand and apply your unrealistic expectations to it as if it's what should be or is usually done.

[Diesel]

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter how Marvin really broke up his time...

BY his own admission (not a guess, not hearsay... his own words), Marvin didn't do much that was basketball related.

I don't have a problem with anybody furthering their education. However, when you're the second overall pick in the draft and making 5 million dollars per... if you have inconsistencies and weaknesses in your game, it shouldn't take an assistant coach to come by and tell you that you need to work on your game.

Like it or not (for all the Marvin Apologist)... Part of living up to the hype is actually putting in the time and wanting it. If it takes your coach and peer pressure to get you to put in the time and want it, then you're never going to live up to the hype.

[gsuteke]

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Do you really think College makes you a better person?

Iverson went to Georgetown U for a number of years.

Vick went to my school VTECH....

There are people who learned what college is trying to teach you and some who don't...and there are some people who never make it to college who turn out pretty good.

However, the experience at College is not going to make anybody a better person. It's not guaranteed to make anyone more mature.

What makes a person a better person is Character and Experience.

IF your character is messed up going in, college won't necessarily fix it.

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half-truths.

Vick had to go to college. And of course, they were going to find a way to keep him academically eligible. Vick was a knucklehead yes, however going to VA Tech proabably kept him out of trouble longer than he would have been able to otherwise.

As for Iverson was he eligible to enter the NBA out of High School? I would think not as Kenny Anderson and Stephon Marbury surely weren't college material. Don't get me started on that joke Maryland put on with letting Steve Francis go to school there.

And to answer your question I do think going to college helps you to become a better person for a few reasons.

a. it eases the transition into adulthood

b. it provides structure

c. to a lesser extent yes I think learning in an academic environment helps you develop critical thinking skills which in turn translate positively into everyday life, on and off the athletic playing field

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you deserve it Diesel aka Forrest

[Diesel]

Let's see....

Pac-Man Jones, Micheal Vick, Marcus Vick, Allen Iverson...

vs.

Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Lebron James, Rashard Lewis.

I'm not saying that College is good for some people... because it is. I just don't think that college is a fix all. Nor is not going to college mean that you're a bad seed. I would put Dwight Howard's citizenship up against any college grad... I think more important and experts would probably agree with me is home training. School can never replace or supersede the training that a person gets from HOME (if you're talking about Character).

[Zone034life]

It really doesn't matter because Jordan was,is, and forever will be better than Marvin on his worst day. Some players have the luxury to be lax during the off season. Marvin is not one of them. If Jordan didn't work hard during the summer was because he could.He won rookie of the year and Marvin didn't even play in the rookies vs sophmores game.So who really needs the extra work.

[Zone034life]

It seems some fans are just willing to wait on a top pick to progress while we have losing seasons.It really depends on what type of fan you are.Are you the type who doesn't put to much in the first two years or are you a fan who has high expectations for a top two pick. To the fans who have and are willing to wait can we agree this is his make or break season? To those of us who have high expectations and do not use excuses such as age or maturity we will believe it when we see it. Skills and a pretty jumper does not garantee Marvin will be successful in his third season. Desire, heart and passion is what is needed on the court or field to be great.I haven't seen it consistently from Marvin but time will tell. I look forward to the day we don't make excuses for top 2 picks NO MATTER WHAT!

[Buzzard]

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I'm not saying that College is good for some people... because it is. I just don't think that college is a fix all.

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I want to make sure I got this right. Diesel and others say that by taking college classes and working on his game (7:00am and after classes in the afternoon) proves Marvin has no work ethic, he is not professional, and he is not committed to his career.

This thread would make a great Saturday Night Live skit!

[Buzzard]

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I haven't seen it consistently from Marvin but time will tell. I look forward to the day we don't make excuses for top 2 picks NO MATTER WHAT!

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Top 2, top 5, top 10. They are only numbers. Anyone in the lottery that does not produce is a bust. Period; no questions asked.

The issue for most on this board is this:

If you were at least ok with the Marvin pick, most on this board will have patience.

If you did not like the Marvin pick, most on this board will not show patience for him.

Last year, a lot of people wanted Shelden because he was "the most NBA ready player". Other things being said like "we are thru with developing players" and "we need players who can contribute now". Another truth they liked was we are over some imaginery hump they have drummed up in their minds; no more development projects like Smoove, Chilz, and Marvin they were chanting.

This year comes around and all of a sudden we have room for a development project. Some people would have liked us picking Yi over Horford. Those same people would have shown patience for Yi's development because they liked the pick and a lot of them are the same people that have no patience for Marvin's development because they did not like the pick.

It is ok to take Yi and wait on his development but it is not ok to take Marvin and wait on his development. There is only a 1 pick difference between #2 vs #3; but in their minds it might as well be a #1 pick vs a #31 pick. Funny thing is, Yi could be older than Marvin. Per the Milwaulkee Journal Sentinel "Yi is listed as 19 years old in the NBA draft guide, but some think he is 21 or 22 years old."

Go figure... Fans and logic is the purest example of a oxymoron.

[Diesel]

My feeling on the matter is similar to yours in that he's the highest pick in the history of our franchise. Unlike some here, I have felt that some reasonable expectations ought to be placed on him. The goofy Marvin lovers are not willing to even place mediocre expectations on Marvin. He's not the 26th pick of the draft, he's the highest pick in the history of our franchise. We endured 2 losing seasons and the drastic fire sale of our previous team just so that we can get in a position to draft him. Therefore, i expect to see something. This is year three... How much more mediocrity are we to expect from a guy playing a dime a dozen position? Marvin lovers know that Marvin has no trade value. He plays a dime a dozen position... so we're stuck with the mistake of the 2005 draft.

Being stuck with him, it's insulting to my intelligence for people to raise a whole lot of fuss about Marvin doing things that the average Sf can do?! "Gee, Marvin had a 17 point game".. Whoopee... Can he string together some of those?? "Gee, on one play Marvin dunked with two hands... He's showing flashes!".. and "You know, Marvin has a picture perfect jump shot."... Well... It's amazingly pathetic that Marvin Lovers will devote threads to sharing with the world wide web that Marvin scored 18 points on Memphis in April. As if it is supposed to really mean something. As if that's their proof that he's worthy of the pick.

My statement is let's all just ignore Marvin until he actually does something worthy of talking about. However, his attitude towards improving is baffling.

[exodus]

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It really doesn't matter because Jordan was,is, and forever will be better than Marvin on his worst day. Some players have the luxury to be lax during the off season. Marvin is not one of them. If Jordan didn't work hard during the summer was because he could.He won rookie of the year and Marvin didn't even play in the rookies vs sophmores game.So who really needs the extra work.

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So you would rather Marvin work all out during the summer when it doesn't matter and be worn out before the season even starts. ok

[exodus]

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My statement is let's all just ignore Marvin until he actually does something worthy of talking about.

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Sounds like you should practice what you preach.