AJC Article on Marvin

[BossTweed]

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The article makes two mentions of him getting his degree, but at least four mentions of him working out (not just lifting weights) and "some people" stretch that out to mean he's not interested in getting better and he's just going to class, ho hum.. lets worry about basketball later...

Some here THINK they know what Josh Smith did the entire off season, and they assume is was something far more "basketball serious" than what Marvin was doing. I know what Josh did for most of the off season and I can assure you he wasn't working out every day of the week. If I wanted to I could just as easily say that he was slagging off and isn't serious about the NBA, but just as I do for Marvin, I know better.

The lengths some will go to to feed an agenda and the extent that others will let themselves be influenced by that agenda is amazing to me.

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Chillz, you are on the money with this one. I can't believe all the Squawkers who read the best or worst into the articles they see depending on how they feel about the player.

Can anyone show me the quote from the article about Josh Smith that says he was playing basketball EVERY day this summer? Or even that he spent more than a couple weeks working on his game? How do you know he didn't just spend two weeks with Hakeem? Oh, it's because you like Josh Smith because he has exceeded expectations and want to assume the best.

Of course the same person wants to assume the worst about underachieving Marvin, and that he was goofing off going to college classes and wasn't even working on his game until someone lit a fire under him.

I agree with Troy, but I can't say whether Marvin going back to school is hurting him or not until I see his WHOLE daily schedule for the WHOLE offseason and compare it to someone's schedule who is known to be a player who benfits a lot from their offseason training. Maybe every other player in the NBA takes six weeks off, and Marvin spent his at school learning and playing ball? Is it such a big deal then?

Don't judge these guys off extremely incomplete information.

[AtLaS]

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It's Josh Smith's contract year so Josh is taking care of Josh.

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Of course he is, but I don't think he is JUST playing for a contract. Even last year, I remember reading NUMEROUS articles from teammates and the coaches saying they expected a breakout year for Josh because he worked so hard. JJ specifically. Guess what happened. Working hard this offseason isn't a first case scenario for Josh.

[AHF]

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second-guessing a guy for focusing on getting a college education in the off-season is silly to me.

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Because he is paid to be a basketball player. If you were hired at a firm to sell computers, do you think your firm would appreciate it if you were taking time to learn an entire different profession? And if your performance was suffering from it? No.

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I don't think we have enough evidence to suggest that Marvin's play is suffering because he has been taking classes in the summer. I am not sure that one is related to the other.

[exodus]

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second-guessing a guy for focusing on getting a college education in the off-season is silly to me.

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Because he is paid to be a basketball player. If you were hired at a firm to sell computers, do you think your firm would appreciate it if you were taking time to learn an entire different profession? And if your performance was suffering from it? No.

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I don't think we have enough evidence to suggest that Marvin's play is suffering because he has been taking classes in the summer. I am not sure that one is related to the other.

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Marvins desire can certainly be questioned but taking summer classes isn't an issue to me.

In his early years Jordan didn't do anything in the summers but play golf. Bird would go back to French Lick and basically just run and shoot some on his own.

Basketball takes a lot out of you and the NBA season is very long. I don't have a problem with it if someone doesn't go all out during the summer.

[thesheedera]

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What?!? The season ended in APRIL, and it wasn't until LATER in the summer that he worked on specific things? That's like 4 months, WAY too long IMO.

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Amazing how clearly everyone in this thread is simply reading into Marvin's quotes exactly what they already believed about him.

Read it again:

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But honestly, when the summer [school] session started I really wasn't doing too much basketball-related stuff. I'd get up at 7 and lift weights and then go to class at 9:30 and then play some later in the day after I was done studying. It wasn't until a little bit later in the summer when I caught up with [Hawks assistant coach Greg Fizdale] and he gave me some things to work on that I really started honing in on my game like that. But all of it helps.

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First of all, do you think anyone's getting up much earlier than 7:00 to lift weights in the offseason?

Second, summer school at UNC started the week of May 14th, while the playoffs were just heating up.

He says "a little bit later in the summer",a nd you all have assumed that means "late summer". Well why not read with a little comprehension and realize that his summer actually includes pretty much the entire spring and most of the fall? I don't think he's speaking specifically to the seasonal calendar, do you? Wouldn't it be logical that "summer" is synomynous with "offseason" for an NBA player?

So right off the bat the guy's getting up at sunrise to work out with someone he refers to as "my trainer", which means he's hired someone to help him. He's getting an education during the day (any employer would like to see their employee earning a degree during vacation time), and he specifically says basketball was a part of his daily routine.

We have no idea on what date he caught up with Greg Fizdale. From this interview it could have been May 30th or August 30th. The way I read it is that it was probably a hell of a lot closer to May 30th than it was to August 30th.

But it's all a matter of where you lie on the agenda spectrum.

[drzachary]

thesheedera:

I cannot believe you are such a Marvin apologist! (Insert homophobic slur connecting you and Marvin here.) It is completely clear from the vast amount of evidence in this article that Marvin is simply interested in bilking the Hawks out of a paycheck while he works on his bachelor's degree in Spongebob Studies. He's a bust and was a bust before he was conceived.

Also, OJ didn't do it!

[thesheedera]

Dr. Z, you're right! I'd rather this team lose forever as long as Marvin gets good minutes. That's all that matters to me.

[mrhonline]

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I did that one time and took this picture of Diesel going outside and getting some fresh air.

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That might be the funniest picture I've ever seen. I think that's a Burger King hat he's wearing, too.

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However he does have a point in that this year it is time for Marvin to produce. No more waiting on his potential.

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As far as the actual season goes, I wholeheartedly agree with the both of you. Many things rest on the outcome of Marvin's season (e.g., his future with the team, Childress' extension, Woodson's future).

If Knight & Co. know anything about basketball, they will see this as well.

[jerrywest]

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2 reasons for coming to camp:

1. Peer pressure.

2. Disappointing seasons.

Now, if he didn't have peer pressure he could have more fun in the summer, I guess.

If he had an average season, I guess, he didn't have to do extra work in the summer.

Love that killer instinct. Talent can only take you so far.

Look at the reason for his degree. He is doing it as a backup for "if things don't work out in the nba".

Smart, safe kid. Not a leader. Not a big winner. Nothing special. This interview very clearly showed how Marvin's mind works.

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I like the fact that he is trying to get smarter by going to school, trying to stay injury free and he's working out. My problem is that his top two reasons for coming to the early training camp isn't intrinsic. He is neither doing it to become great nor to lead the team. Peer pressure and history of disappointments are his chief reasons.

[Zone034life]

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Can anyone show me the quote from the article about Josh Smith that says he was playing basketball EVERY day this summer? Or even that he spent more than a couple weeks working on his game? How do you know he didn't just spend two weeks with Hakeem? Oh, it's because you like Josh Smith because he has exceeded expectations and want to assume the best.

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J Smoove

I don't know if Smoove played basketball everyday this summer but not only did he train with the Dream he also has been competing against other NBA players this summer. Don't get me wrong it is a great thing for a black man to be getting an education in this country. But I am not a fan of what Marvin Williams does in college only what he does on the court. That may sound harsh but it is true. For those who don't see a problem with this, will it be a problem if Marvin gains his bachelor and never lives up to his potential in the NBA?

To the gentleman who keeps bringing up Marvins age I say to you once he decided to enter the NBA he decided to be a man.A man who was drafted #2 overall in this great league. He gave up his right to be given the benifit of the doubt once he turned pro.If you can't understand that this guy was drafted to become a star not just another player on a horrible team then you have no hope of ever seeing the point. He decided not the fans who are expecting more from him to take this challenge.Now since he has not lived up to the hype and doesn't seem as motivated now he has hit the nerve of many people who want him and this team to be great.It isn't a good sign when a players supporters wants him to be great more than that player himself wants to. Only Marvin can decide what he will become in this league none of us.Either he gets it done the first month or two or start Chilldress.

To whom compared Marvin not thinking about basketball as much in the offseason just like Jordan and Bird I say you are boardering on insane. How in the h@#$ can you compare a guy who hasn't shown half the talent of these two great players in the NBA or college to Marvin Williams.Please do not give this guy that much credit.Certainly not to the point where you bring up NBA legends. Bird and Jordan could not work out an entire summer and Marvin could and they still would mop the floor with him.The guy has alot of holes in his game and you can't be mad at fans who are passionate about this team being dissapointed with this guy so far.Bird and Jordan, I can't believe you ever brought them into this conversation.Thats down right crazy!

[TexasPete]

This deal is real simple. If Marvin has a bad year and doesn't improve then you jump his ass. I will be the first because this is year 3. If Marvin does show a great improvement and plays better overall basketball then I don't care if he gets a degree or goes to France.

When the lights go on in November, is he a better player?

Why all the nonsense, sky is falling, BS? Why the "controversy" in this thread? Why jump a guys ass when there is no reason for doing it other than the typical Marvin garbage?

FWIW, Smith was OK in the classroom HS, but I know a kid who played at Oak Hill last year and it's almost a diploma mill. It's being investigated as such right now. I know Howard Thompkins, who started there last year as a junior. Its all about basketball at Oak Hill. Period. Josh Smith may be be a rocket scientist but his HS performance doesnt show it.

Lets not compare Oak Hill with getting a degree from UNC. There are a few nutbags on here who think Josh Smith walks on water. Yes, he is a great young talent but he has plenty to work on and that includes his attitude. Sorry to rain on your 100% Josh Smith is all great, all the time, parade.

[TexasPete]

Zone, this may be extremely hard for you to comprehend on your "Marvin decided to be a man when he left college" soap box...

Marvin didn't draft himself at #2. Do you get that concept or does it fly right above your head? Marvin at #2 is a BK issue, not a Marvin issue. If it's the #2 thing stuck in your brain, then ride BK's ass cause MW didn't draft himself.

And spare the "he forfeits all his rights to grow" now that he doesn't meet your standards at #2. Email BK and tell him your pissed. That will work.

[exodus]

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To whom compared Marvin not thinking about basketball as much in the offseason just like Jordan and Bird I say you are boardering on insane. How in the

h@#$

can you compare a guy who hasn't shown half the talent of these two great players in the NBA or college to Marvin Williams.Please do not give this guy that much credit.Certainly not to the point where you bring up NBA legends. Bird and Jordan could not work out an entire summer and Marvin could and they still would mop the floor with him.The guy has alot of holes in his game and you can't be mad at fans who are passionate about this team being dissapointed with this guy so far.Bird and Jordan, I can't believe you ever brought them into this conversation.Thats down right crazy!

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Marvin is a professional basketball player. So were Jordan and Bird. It isn't that complicated. If we are judging Marvin based on his summer activities then we should hold other players to the same standard. Compared to Marvin i could say that Jordan and Bird were lazy bums during the summer.

I have issues with Marvin's desire too but this business about his summer is overblown. It is the OFFseason. He was getting up at 7:00 to lift and i can tell you from experience that morning workouts are a major pain. And it sounds like he was playing pickup games as well.

The bottom line is that what happens during the season is what matters. So far Marvin hasn't lived up to expectations. Now is the time for him to produce. If he does produce nobody will give a crap what he did during the summer.

[Diesel]

There's the problem...

You try to compare your situation to Marvin's....

They don't compare.

You work hard all year long and you get paid less than 6 figures.

Marvin works.....not so hard.. he gets paid mid 7 figures. What Marvin Makes in 1 year, you won't make in 20 years of teaching.

Tell me when I'm wrong...

So, you taking a summer off is something that is needed for your own sanity. You have given more of yourself than your job pays.

However, has Marvin done anything really to earn 5 million dollars?

If you were an investor of the Atlanta Hawks... and you just finished signing a 5 million dollar check over to Marvin Williams for playing on your basketball team...

Wouldn't it bother you to hear him say.. My job ended in April??

It's like Iverson saying "practice? practice?"

The bottom line is that Marvin's season ended in April, but he's still a Basketball player for the Atlanta Hawks all year round.

If he comes to camp weighing 310 pounds, out of shape, and condition... Do you think the team has the right to strip him of some of his money??

Back to you...

Don't your school expect you to do somethings over your summer break to make you a better teacher... Such as go to workshops, symposiums, or seminars? Or how about writing grants? Or how about developing a lesson plan or a curricula? evaluating new books or maybe writing a book? Or what about tracking student success?

If you're not doing those things (to make you better at your job), then you're not really a teacher... You're a babysitter and characteristic of what's wrong with today's school system.

[Diesel]

You guys are funny.

Here's the bottom line. 5 persons other than Diesel felt as though Marvin was the most hyped player in the last 5 years. (I personally felt it was a two man tie between Bogut and Oden with Oden Winning).

It's very simple...

It doesn't matter what I say about Marvin. His game and his work ethics speaks volumes.. I don't have to say nothing and I'm not your red herring. People are smart enough to realize how they feel about Marvin without you trying to villify me to change the subject...

[Dsinner]

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Marvin is a professional basketball player. So were Jordan and Bird. It isn't that complicated. If we are judging Marvin based on his summer activities then we should hold other players to the same standard. Compared to Marvin i could say that Jordan and Bird were lazy bums during the summer.

I have issues with Marvin's desire too but this business about his summer is overblown. It is the OFFseason. He was getting up at 7:00 to lift and i can tell you from experience that morning workouts are a major pain. And it sounds like he was playing pickup games as well.

The bottom line is that what happens during the season is what matters. So far Marvin hasn't lived up to expectations. Now is the time for him to produce. If he does produce nobody will give a crap what he did during the summer.

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But to be fair Jordan was just an athletic freak until he started putting in that extra work. Then he became "Jordan".

And I believe we would have a championship today had Jordan continued to not put in that extra work.

[Diesel]

Do you really think College makes you a better person?

Iverson went to Georgetown U for a number of years.

Vick went to my school VTECH....

There are people who learned what college is trying to teach you and some who don't...and there are some people who never make it to college who turn out pretty good.

However, the experience at College is not going to make anybody a better person. It's not guaranteed to make anyone more mature.

What makes a person a better person is Character and Experience.

IF your character is messed up going in, college won't necessarily fix it.

[exodus]

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Marvin is a professional basketball player. So were Jordan and Bird. It isn't that complicated. If we are judging Marvin based on his summer activities then we should hold other players to the same standard. Compared to Marvin i could say that Jordan and Bird were lazy bums during the summer.

I have issues with Marvin's desire too but this business about his summer is overblown. It is the OFFseason. He was getting up at 7:00 to lift and i can tell you from experience that morning workouts are a major pain. And it sounds like he was playing pickup games as well.

The bottom line is that what happens during the season is what matters. So far Marvin hasn't lived up to expectations. Now is the time for him to produce. If he does produce nobody will give a crap what he did during the summer.

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But to be fair Jordan was just an athletic freak until he started putting in that extra work. Then he became "Jordan".

And I believe we would have a championship today had Jordan continued to not put in that extra work.

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The year Jordan won his first title he came into camp out of shape and played his way into shape. His idea of working out that summer was walking the golf course instead of riding a cart.

[Diesel]

I couldn't have said it better.

First off, his first contract guaranteed him enough money to make it longer than any college degree could guarantee. i.e. he has made more through the Hawks than he would have in 60 years of working with his degree.

2nd...

Look at how his mind works...

with his opportunity, he should be hungrier than this.

There are thousands of guys who would kill for Marvin's spot. Right now, they are on the blacktop or on the court somewhere working on their game and they may never make it to the pros.

It's an insult that Marvin needs more motivation than he already has to be better. Being picked #2 should be motivation enough. Being in the NBA should be motivation enough.

You may not like Smoove, but one thing about both Smoove and Salim is that they are insulted by losing... You can see that. They wear losing like a strong stink... They turn up their intensity and work on their weaknesses to get rid of the stink. Marvin doesn't.

[Diesel]

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Because he is paid to be a basketball player. If you were hired at a firm to sell computers, do you think your firm would appreciate it if you were taking time to learn an entire different profession? And if your performance was suffering from it? No.

I don't think we have enough evidence to suggest that Marvin's play is suffering because he has been taking classes in the summer. I am not sure that one is related to the other.

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AHF.. You are correct... that those don't relate.. however, to clean up the analogy... if it were your job to sell computers, I think your firm would appreciate it if you took to time to learn more about computers in your free time. We all hate taking work home... however, sometimes, working in the off hours is what takes us to the next level.

Now, I'm not making any suggestions about what not working in the off hours do, I just think that in Marvin's position, he has no reason to not better himself in his offtime...