AJC Article on Marvin

[thesheedera]

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In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter how Marvin really broke up his time...

BY his own admission (not a guess, not hearsay... his own words), Marvin didn't do much that was basketball related.

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I have NO problem with people criticising Marvin. I do it as well. But I do have a problem with people being dishonest in order to support an agenda. Diesel, you're a liar. I hate to be this harsh but I'm flat out convinced that you have very little character.

You twisted what he said so badly that it comes back out as a complete LIE. Are you really that pathetic that you have to resort to being dishonest on a message board to convince people that you're right?

Timing DOES matter when looking at his "own admission". He said he wasn't that focused on basketball at the START of his summer semester, even though he was working out with a trainer and playing ball in the afternoon.

It's obvious that after he talked with the coach he WAS focused on basketball, otherwise there would be no reason to make the distcinction that at some point he wasn't.

Marvin needs a lot of work, it shouldn't be so hard to criticise the guy without having to resort to dishonesty in order to do it.

Where's that ignore button?

[Dsinner]

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Yeah, but you said he didn't workout during the summer AT ALL until after he won his first championship. Which, as AHF just proved, is false.

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First of all AHF's post didn't prove anything false. His quote was from 1995. I was talking about the 80s.

And secondly i said Jordan didn't lift weights at all for his first few years in the league which is a fact. I even gave you a video reference where he admitted it himself.

And after he broke his foot his second year in the league he became leery of pickup games in general. He may have played a few during the summer here and there but the idea that Jordan was some kind of offseason workout fiend at Marvins age is a joke.

But he was definitely a natural. Iverson was the same way. He wouldn't work out all summer then he would come to camp and run a 5:30 mile.

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Yeah, sorry. The 90s were such a blur for me. Plus I keep forgetting how freakin old I am now.

Regardless you're comparing apples to crab-cakes. I understand you're saying that off-seaso work is pointless. But it's only pointless to those who don't need it (ie. Jordan, Bird). Those who stil have a ton of potential, only haven't found it yet, (ie. Marvin) the offseason actually does mean something. Apples to Crab-cakes.

[Diesel]

This is what Marvin Said:

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Q. How big of a help is being able to escape to Chapel Hill and work on things there with other pros and the people affiliated with the Tar Heels program?

A. It's the perfect set-up for me. Sean [May, the Charlotte Bobcats forward] was my roommate again this summer. And really it's just a revolving door of guys that come back there to work out with.

But honestly, when the summer [school] session started I really wasn't doing too much basketball-related stuff.

I'd get up at 7 and lift weights and then go to class at 9:30 and then play some later in the day after I was done studying. It wasn't until a little bit later in the summer when I caught up with [Hawks assistant coach Greg Fizdale] and he gave me some things to work on that I really started honing in on my game like that. But all of it helps. And you can always learn from somebody.

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Where's the lie??

If you call me a liar, you better take your face out of Marvin's ass and show me where I lied!

[exodus]

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I understand you're saying that off-seaso work is pointless.

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That's not it at all.

Marvin was getting up at 7:00am to lift weights and playing pickup games in the afternoon back in May. As the offseason went on he added to his routine. I just don't see the problem with this.

People are acting like Marvin has somehow been a slacker over the summer. That is just silly.

[TexasPete]

Great post. I totally agree with you about Diesel's Marvin hatred. He can't wait for the season, he has to start making stuff up. I cringe everytime I see an interview with Marvin or an article about him because I know that this site will be overrun with Diesel twisting things to make Marvin look bad.

Marvin has a long way to go but if he ever gets to the point where he is a great and invaluable member of the franchise it still won't shut him up.

It will be his defense, or the fact that #2 picks should average more than 18/8 when their 24, or his post up game is hardly worthy of a #2 pick. Trust me, this Diesel obsession with Marvin is only the beginning.

Most people would read that interview and not think anything other than "wow, what a great young guy, he is really motivated". Not Diesel, every word has to be analyzed to see if it meets his ridiculous standards for the #2 pick. If Marvin had been picked at #4 it would be fine, but dammit, at #2 that's just unacceptable.

All I know is that age 20 I wasn't putting in those kind of days. Thats a LONG day. And getting up at 6AM to workout at 7AM is absolutely miserable. Then you go to class, work in the gym in the afternoon, and likely work on homework at night. Sounds wonderful. That Marvin is really a slack ass.

[Diesel]

TP,

You and all these excuses are just ridiculous.

What really happens when a Marvin interview comes out is that you or Thesheedera come out and start making excuses for Marvin...

Goto the top of the page. I didn't start the thread. I didn't levy the first attack on Marvin. All I did was agree with what has been said. Mainly that his mentality should be much better. He shouldn't need to be prodded into being a better player.

But you and Sheedera just continues to accuse me of trying to take your boy down.

The truth is by mid-season, your pitiful excuses will be as unwelcome on this site as Hitler in a synagogue. Now, if you want to know what i'm tired of, I'm tired of you constant whining about Marvin's age, the difficulties that Marvin's had, the fact that he didn't pick himself. You know what TP... That's all BS. We Hawks fans were made promises about that pick. So like it or not, there's expectations about him. It's not fair... BUT it is what it is... No room for your excuses.

[Diesel]

Mr. H is probably the worst. He blindly excuses Marvin... over and over and over. He should be the Mr. MarvinExcusemaker.

[TexasPete]

I'm not making excuses for him. I'm saying let's wait until he fails on the court until we crucify him. Let's see if what he did all summer actually pays off...or does not.

If Marvin comes back a better player then I couldnt care less if he worked hard or didn't work out at all. This is a bottom line game. Either improve on the court or get left behind.

Your position is simply DENSE. You just look for stupid reasons to attack the kid. Don't keep crying wolf everytime Marvin's name is in the paper. Let's wait and see if he improves. If he doesn't then knock yourself out.

In the meantime, why don't you show a little sense?

[exodus]

[atlien]

Awww, Diesel got a Marvin interview thread to go off on, that's soo cute.

But, what I don't understand, is I see you bashing the hell out of Marvin, while at the same time you have a thing for Shelly.

This tells me:

1) You didn't watch the games. Had you had, you would see that Marvin at least has the tools (a shot, athleticism, handles) to be a high-quality NBA player. Whether the 20-year-old Marvin will put it all together, well, the jury is still out on that one (I am of the opinion that he will). Shelly on the other hand, didn't show ANYTHING last year. He has an NBA body I guess, in that he is strong, but he loooked severely outmatched and downright slow last year. ANY HAWKS BASKETBALL FAN WITH KNOWLEDGE I RESPECT WOULD AGREE WITH THIS ONE (where you at northcyde?).

2) You just are a horrible talent evaluator.

And I'd STILL much rather have Marvin than Bogut. That was an even bigger botch in the 2005 draft.

Some special players can come in at 18-19 and make a huge impact. Lebron, 'Melo, etc. Most can't though. Kobe, McGrady, JO, etc. all fall here. Rashard Lewis is my favorite comparison though. Him and Marvin are very similar.

I expected this steep of a learning curve from Marvin, but I guess you didn't. That's on you; you gave too much credence to a 19-year-old who wasn't ready. Will he ever reach the potential he can? Time will tell. But I still have faith. You don't.

But Shelly?

C'mon man....

[mrhonline]

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I'm not making excuses for him. I'm saying let's wait until he fails on the court until we crucify him. Let's see if what he did all summer actually pays off...or does not.

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And that's all I've ever said, too. In fact, I've said from DAY ONE that it takes three years to get a usable read on young players.

I've been very consistent in my stance on Marvin, but somehow that amounts to "making excuses." The irony is that the Dieselputer can spit out an endless amount of excuses for Shelden Williams (who also deserves three years to be evaluated), but "that's different."

But you're wasting your time trying to convince him otherwise. It's easier for everyone to let him paint a "name" on you, and then move on to discussions with rational posters.

[TexasPete]

I agree this thread sucks.

The truth is that Diesel has a thing for Shelden. He sees great upside, the next Mailman I believe.

The world according to Diesel is a funny place.

[Diesel]

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I see you bashing the hell out of Marvin, while at the same time you have a thing for Shelly.

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Nice strawman... and almost good diversion...

[Zone034life]

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It really doesn't matter because Jordan was,is, and forever will be better than Marvin on his worst day. Some players have the luxury to be lax during the off season. Marvin is not one of them. If Jordan didn't work hard during the summer was because he could.He won rookie of the year and Marvin didn't even play in the rookies vs sophmores game.So who really needs the extra work.

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So you would rather Marvin work all out during the summer when it doesn't matter and be worn out before the season even starts. ok

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So a guy who has been average at best can work out the same amount of time as Jordan and Bird..ok

[exodus]

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So a guy who has been average at best can work out the same amount of time as Jordan and Bird..ok

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That is just plain dumb. I never said anything remotely like that.

[atlien]

Haha... riiiiight. Those are your tricks, mang. I'm OK with rational analysis.

You are one of the few avid Hawks fans who would actually do much worst than BK. Most on here would/could do better IMHO. Not you sir.

And nowhere have I ever blindly given Marvin a free-ride. I have qualified criticism for him, as he is still a product in the making.

If he can't move beyond that starting this season, than my criticism will not be as reserved anymore.

[Zone034life]

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All I know is that age 20 I wasn't putting in those kind of days. Thats a LONG day. And getting up at 6AM to workout at 7AM is absolutely miserable. Then you go to class, work in the gym in the afternoon, and likely work on homework at night. Sounds wonderful. That Marvin is really a slack ass.

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He is a millionaire so excuse me for not feeling sorry for him. There are many college students who work two jobs just to make it by and they still have to pass all there classes. Even when they graduate they are not gauranteed a job so that is far more impressive than what Marvin is doing. Not to say what Marvin is doing isn't to be admired but he is still in a very good place being rich and all.

If you just say that we need to wait and see what Marvin does next season that is fine becuase its your opinion. But when you bring up age constantly then that is an excuse. I'm going by what i've seen the first two years from Marvin so it seems we are arguing two different points. I don't believe marvin will ever be a great player because his attitude on the court.

Atlien as for Sheldon, me and Diesel have had our battle over that subject as well. The difference between me and some of you is I don't see Marvin or Sheldon being anything other than complimentary pieces. But they should not be offended by that because the bulls had Kukoc and Horace Grant and the Spurs last season had Oberto and Francisco Elson. If woody can get these guys a role on the team and they except and execute them then they will be much better off.

I actually wanted to draft Marvin and have just been very underwhelmed and dissapointed with his play thus far. That is why I can't give the guy the benifit of the doubt. I was excited when we got him but after I seen him on the floor I realized his mentality not his skills is what will hold him back. I hated the Sheldon pick and wondered why would you trade Alan Henderson and draft him all over again? Now that these guys are a member of the team it is up to Mike woodson to develop these guys into what will make them the best players for the Hawks. In my opinion for Marvin it is to hit open jumpers when Law,Speedy,Smith or JJ drive and kick. Play above average defense and fight for rebounds much harder. Sheldon, don't be afraid to be physical in the paint.If you get a one on one opportunity in the paint be aggresive and score or try to draw a foul.But you must kick it out once double teamed. If you don't hustle or act like it is a privilege to be on the floor then you will sit like you did last season in the middle of the season. Most importantly Both of these guys must show more hustle and aggressiveness while on the floor. I haven't been impressed with either but they both can change my mind this season. I just don't have the faith in them that some do.

[AtLaS]

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You are one of the few avid Hawks fans who would actually do much worst than BK. Most on here would/could do better IMHO. Not you sir.

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So you're saying Iggy/Paul/Shelden would be worse than Chill/Marvin/Shelden? I don't always agree with Diesel either but he hasn't exactly been horrible with draft selections.

[gsuteke]

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LOL thanks

another one going over to the photobucket account

[Johnnybravo4]

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Damnn, Marvin weighs 242.

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Marvin has a strange body. He has narrow shoulders and huge hips with a baboon butt. I think his butt gives him an extra 20 pounds that serves no purpose b/c ne never uses it to box people out.

Maybe that explains why he appears slow or even flat footed at times on the floor.

This is why the national media portrays him as a PF, 6'9'' and 242 llbs sounds like a PF on paper. On the floor he lacks the heart and strength of a 6'9'' 242 lb professional athelete. Too bad he has no core strength and foldes like tissue paper vs. NBA post players.

This year is put up or shut up for Marvin. I have been a patient Marvin supporter but this is the year.

"If your hurt by the truth. Well, get ready for whole lot of hurt. " Lou Holtz

Man, I just love that quote in today's ridiculously "politically correct" society !

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Basically he is a clone of Antawn Jamison, but more athletic, which is right fine to me.