pimp Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 I was just looking at the Hawks record, when certain players missed games. The biggest suprises, were that we played better without Speedy, than we did with him.And we played 500. ball without Marvin.Zaza Also wasn't missed as much as you might think. Speedy Claxton games missed = 40 Hawks record with Speedy = 13 Wins - 29 Loses Hawks record w/o Speedy = 17 Wins - 23 Loses Joe Johnson games missed = 25 Hawks record with JJ = 21 Wins - 36 Loses Hawks record w/o JJ = 9 Wins - 16 Loses Marvin Williams games missed = 18 Hawks record with Marvin = 21 Wins - 43 Loses Hawks record w/o Marvin = 9 Wins - 9 Loses Josh Smith games missed = 10 Hawks record with Js = 28 Wins - 44 Loses Hawks record w/o JS = 2 Wins - 8 Loses Zaza Pachulia games missed = 10 Hawks record with Zaza = 26 Wins - 46 Loses Hawks record w/o Zaza = 4 Wins - 6 Loses Josh Childress games missed = 27 Hawks record with Chill = 22 Wins - 33 Loses Hawks record w/o Chill = 8 Wins - 19 Loses Tyronn Lue games missed = 26 Hawks record with Lue 22 Wins - 34 Loses Hawks record w/o Lue = 8 Wins - 18 Loses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted September 13, 2007 Moderators Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 The flaw in this is that it doesn't take into account who ELSE was missing during those games. The think Speedy's is misleading because he played short periods in games where he really wasn't able run and drive very well. It is interesting that Smoove, Chill, Lue appear to be the most missed which outside of JJ makes perfect sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Yes your right, but most for the most part, guys weren't out in together in bunches until the last month and half. more... 4 Wins and 5 Loses when Childress and Marvin were out at the same time in Nov/Dec 1 win 3 loses when JJ and Childress were out at the same time in dec. 1-2 when Smith and Childress were both out. The only time JJ and Josh Smith both were out at the same time was when Josh was suppended for 2 games while JJ had his Calf injury ...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted September 13, 2007 Premium Member Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Well, Smoove is our most effective player based on those numbers. However, it also says, we miss Marvin the least. I mean we won 50% of the time without Marvin. I was shocked by Speedy's numbers too. We won 43% of the time without him. It's strange that we missed Chillz and Lue more than JJ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted September 13, 2007 Moderators Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Quote: It's strange that we missed Chillz and Lue more than JJ?? Regardless of what the numbers say, we didn't miss Lue or Chillz nearly as much as JJ. I think what that does is call into question how much those numbers mean when they are affected by so many other things such as schedule, other personnel, etc. For example, if JJ plays and scores 40 points in a loss against the Spurs while we are missing Lue and then Lue scores 2 points in a win against the Celtics of last season while JJ is out does that mean that Lue means more to the team? Obviously not. But that is what the raw numbers would suggest if you are reading them that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Quote: Quote: It's strange that we missed Chillz and Lue more than JJ?? Regardless of what the numbers say, we didn't miss Lue or Chillz nearly as much as JJ. I think what that does is call into question how much those numbers mean when they are affected by so many other things such as schedule, other personnel, etc. For example, if JJ plays and scores 40 points in a loss against the Spurs while we are missing Lue and then Lue scores 2 points in a win against the Celtics of last season while JJ is out does that mean that Lue means more to the team? Obviously not. But that is what the raw numbers would suggest if you are reading them that way. One thing i know for sure is that the Hawks looked like garbage when Smith was out this past season. I almost stopped watching the games it was so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted September 13, 2007 Premium Member Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 I do remember that when JJ left, we won the next 4 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted September 13, 2007 Moderators Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Quote: Quote: Quote: It's strange that we missed Chillz and Lue more than JJ?? Regardless of what the numbers say, we didn't miss Lue or Chillz nearly as much as JJ. I think what that does is call into question how much those numbers mean when they are affected by so many other things such as schedule, other personnel, etc. For example, if JJ plays and scores 40 points in a loss against the Spurs while we are missing Lue and then Lue scores 2 points in a win against the Celtics of last season while JJ is out does that mean that Lue means more to the team? Obviously not. But that is what the raw numbers would suggest if you are reading them that way. One thing i know for sure is that the Hawks looked like garbage when Smith was out this past season. I almost stopped watching the games it was so bad. I don't disagree with that at all. I didn't stop watching but without Josh Smith this team really suffered. I just don't think the record playing without him stat is all that statistically significant if you look at it across the board. To make it significant, you would need to control for a lot of variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted September 13, 2007 Moderators Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Quote: I do remember that when JJ left, we won the next 4 games? Yep. We ran off a little streak. Still don't think that it means much in terms of measuring relative contributions of players, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Win/loss record VS Playoff teams, when these guys were missing. 6-5 VS playoff teams w/o Marvin 2-4 VS playoff teams w/o Zaza 1-8 VS playoff teams w/o JJ 0-6 VS playoff teams w/o Josh Smith 2-13 VS playoff teams w/o Childress 7-10 VS playoff teams w/o Speedy 4-13 vs playoff teams w/o Lue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted September 13, 2007 Moderators Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Quote: Win/loss record VS Playoff teams, when these guys were missing. 6-5 VS playoff teams w/o Marvin 2-4 VS playoff teams w/o Zaza 1-8 VS playoff teams w/o JJ 0-6 VS playoff teams w/o Josh Smith 2-13 VS playoff teams w/o Childress 7-10 VS playoff teams w/o Speedy 4-13 vs playoff teams w/o Lue I suspect you would see even more by giving the complete w/o list. For example, a lot of the games missed by JJ and Chillz were missed by both of them (and Speedy and...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Quote: One thing i know for sure is that the Hawks looked like garbage when Smith was out this past season. I almost stopped watching the games it was so bad. In the games that Josh Smith missed We went 2-8 We were blown out in all 8 losses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 In the first two games that Smoove was out, we were also without Chill and Lue. LOL . . during that stretch, Speedy had an 11 point, 7 assist, 8 steal game against the Cavs. But the Hawks still lost by 13 because JJ shot 4 - 17 and Marvin and Shelden had 11 points between them. Salim really blew his chance during that stretch, to really step up and be an integral part of the team. Marvin stunk it up, with the exception of one game, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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