What a slacker!

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

It's less about money and more about where they were drafted.

---

Is more expected of Josh Smith, Childress or Shelden?

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

So the rule is if you are not a first round pick or the #2 pick in the draft or if you are not picked before 2 preferred players, you don't have to work on your game in the summertime!

I hope guys like G. Arenas, Ginobili, R. lewis, or Carlos Boozer didn't waste their precious summer time working on their respective basket games.

---

No, I never said that. Of course I want Salim working as hard as possible in the summertime. That's not my point.

If you paid a guy 2000 dollars at a nice firm to paint your house, and a neighbor pays 500 dollars to a poorer firm to paint their house, wouldn't you expect the guy for 2000 to do a better job? Wouldn't you expect him to work harder, use better tools, etc?

If Portland found out that Josh McRoberts and Greg Oden were lazy bums and Oden wasn't performing well, who do you think they would bash the most?

[pimp]

Yes, I expect them to do as well as thier peers or better.

If they don't , then they will criticized

Childress gets bashed by guys, because Iggy and Deng have outplayed him.

I have never seen a more hated rookie on this site than Shelden.

Josh Smith has outplayed pretty much ourplayed most guys that were dafted 15-20 the last few years.But he still has his haters.

But the fact is, non of those guys were picked as high as Marvin.We didn't pass on franshise players at a postion of need(pg) to draft them. Childress nor Shelden have been labled future superstars.

Marvin should feel lucky he was drafted by the Hawks instead of the A team like New York or Philly.The media there would tear him apart.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

Yes, I expect them to do as well as thier peers or better.

If they don't , then they will criticized

Childress gets bashed by guys, because Iggy and Deng have outplayed him.

I have never seen a more hated rookie on this site than Shelden.

Josh Smith has outplayed pretty much ourplayed most guys that were dafted 15-20 the last few years.But he still has his haters.

But the fact is, non of those guys were picked as high as Marvin.We didn't pass on franshise players at a postion of need(pg) to draft them. Childress nor Shelden have been labled future superstars.

Marvin should feel lucky he was drafted by the Hawks instead of the A team like New York or Philly.The media there would tear him apart.

---

We have gotten way of topic! We started off talking about expectations regarding work ethic and now posters are comparing players expectations on the court. Lets stick to work ethics in this thread please. Having said that if you feel that player's work ethic should be based on where you were drafted or how much money you make, I have to seriously question your logic.

[Zone034life]

Quote:

---

Having said that if you feel that player's work ethic should be based on where you were drafted or how much money you make, I have to seriously question your logic.

---

Not just work ethic but expectations on the court. No one is saying you get a pass if you were drafted in the second round to not have a good work ethic. But if you think a second round pick will be critisized like the second overall pick then I don't understand your logic. It isn't fair but it is life. Some people in this world based on status, hype, amount they get paid and expectations will always be judged more intensly than others. Fair or not that is the way it is. Sheldon Williams is expected to be a better player and work harder than Solomon Jones just like Marvin is over Salim That is what is expected of a first round pick. When a team has less invested as far as draft ranking and amount they pay a player then it is easier to release or trade that player. A franchise invests alot into a first rounder and people can get an extension or be fired based on his performance. Just like a team can remain horrible if they select the wrong first rounder they can be turned around with the right selection.

Thats why Marvins development is much more important than any other young Hawk. They took the biggest risk as far as where they drafted him and the amount of investment.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

Not just work ethic but expectations on the court. No one is saying you get a pass if you were drafted in the second round to not have a good work ethic. But if you think a second round pick will be critisized like the second overall pick then I don't understand your logic. It isn't fair but it is life. Some people in this world based on status, hype, amount they get paid and expectations will always be judged more intensly than others. Fair or not that is the way it is. Sheldon Williams is expected to be a better player and work harder than Solomon Jones just like Marvin is over Salim That is what is expected of a first round pick. When a team has less invested as far as draft ranking and amount they pay a player then it is easier to release or trade that player. A franchise invests alot into a first rounder and people can get an extension or be fired based on his performance. Just like a team can remain horrible if they select the wrong first rounder they can be turned around with the right selection.

Thats why Marvins development is much more important than any other young Hawk. They took the biggest risk as far as where they drafted him and the amount of investment.

---

Let me say this one more time very slowly, This is not a thread about on court performance! This is a thread about whether you expect the 2nd pick to work harder than the 5th pick etc at being the best player they can possibly be on the court. Anyone who believes that an owner, coach, or a fan should accept a player not working to realize his full potential because of his draft status or how much money he makes, just doesn't understand how the world of sports works. I don't know what you do for a living but I hope that you put full effort into your work even if you feel that you are under paid.

[Zone034life]

Every player should work hard. Thats stating the obvious. Its just that some players have more expectations on and off the floor than others. If Marvin was meeting his expectations neither one of us would have anything to talk about. Who do the Hawks need more next season Salim or Marvin?

Wow! Every player should work hard and have a good work ethic. I never thought of that. You should think about becoming a coach with that kind of insight. You just can't admit that Marvin has more expectations than other players on the team. If that means working harder that Salim "I wasn't the Hawks highest draft pick ever" then so be it.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

Wow! Every player should work hard and have a good work ethic. I never thought of that. You should think about becoming a coach with that kind of insight. You just can't admit that Marvin has more expectations than other players on the team. If that means working harder that Salim "I wasn't the Hawks highest draft pick ever" then so be it.

---

I've just never heard a coach tell his players, "Uh since you were drafted lower, we don't expect you to work as hard as the guys that were drafted higher than you."

[Zone034life]

But he can say that "You are one of the most talented players we have and I expect you to work hard and be a leader and set a high standard for yourself and this team." Every coach should hold his leaders and most talented players to higher standards because they need them to win games. It is up to the lower round picks to outplay the higher round picks to make the team. Why would a coach expect a second round pick to outwork his top five pick. I'm sure Mike Woodson was very frustrated when Solomon Jones outworked and out hustled Sheldon Williams mid season. It is far worse if Marvin doesn't work hard and is a bust than if Salim doesn't turn into a player.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

It is far worse if Marvin doesn't work hard and is a bust than if Salim doesn't turn into a player.

---

Again, you are mixing apples and oranges! Whether a player turns out to be a bust in the NBA may or may not be related to his work ethic! The player could be a hard worker like Ivey but just not possess the skills necessary to succeed at the NBA level. Now the question is whether you require

A. every player to have the same work ethic or

B. each player has different requirements depending on where they were drafted.

You have obviously chosen B

[AtLaS]

Why didn't you answer my post? Both of them should work as hard as possible in the offseason, noone is saying they shouldn't. Marvin will just take more criticism for it because he was drafted higher, and much more risk was involved with his pick than Salim's.

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

...If Portland found out that Josh McRoberts and Greg Oden were lazy bums and Oden wasn't performing well, who do you think they would bash the most?

---

I really wish we could have gotten Josh McRoberts. Not trying to hijack the thread...but I think he will be a solid inside player for a good many years...10/6 type of guy off the bench getting 20-25 minutes as a rookie.

You can't teach size ...nor can you teach strength.

[DrReality]

Anyone remember the article in sports illistrated a few yrs ago about Salim. Detailed how he is obsessive compulsive, very high strung. Focused on his conflict with his coach. All that been said, it could very well be an important thing for him to get away from the game for a while. We will find out soon as practice starts next month.

When does practice start??

[Johann]

Practice starts week after next, I believe.

[leftwich]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

So either you so called experts know more than a current professional basketball player or you think Salim was lying when he said that a break from basketball during the off season is good thing!!!

---

[/indent]

Salim would be the most honest athlete in the world if he said that a break from basketball was going to hurt his game. Even if he felt this were true, he would never come out and say that.

I also didn't see where anyone claimed to be an expert, but I easily could have missed something there.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

...If Portland found out that Josh McRoberts and Greg Oden were lazy bums and Oden wasn't performing well, who do you think they would bash the most?

---

I really wish we could have gotten Josh McRoberts. Not trying to hijack the thread...but I think he will be a solid inside player for a good many years...10/6 type of guy off the bench getting 20-25 minutes as a rookie.

You can't teach size ...nor can you teach strength.

---

Problem is that he is lacking in both. his standing reach is the same as Josh Smith but he only has a 31.5" vertical. He isn't very strong either, benching 185 pounds 12 times which is the same a Smith did out of high school and is half of what Shelden did.

Not to mention that he really didn't do much in college.

[Packfill]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Salim wasn't even a first round pick, let alone a #2 pick. He was a 2nd rounder which most people consider a crapshoot anyway. Marvin deservingly would take alot more criticism for comments like that, especially since we passed on 2 star PG's to take a project at an unneeded position. When you are drafted THAT high to be a project, you damn well better be in the gym.

---

So the rule is if you are not a first round pick or the #2 pick in the draft or if you are not picked before 2 preferred players, you don't have to work on your game in the summertime! I hope guys like G. Arenas, Ginobili, R. lewis, or Carlos Boozer didn't waste their precious summer time working on their respective basket games.

---

I am going to make this really easy for you. The reason no one cares what Salim does in the off-season is because everyone knows this is his last season with the team and he is a 10 minute per game back-up to the teams best player. In short he is replaceable.

Smoove, Shelden, Horford, Chill and Marvin on the otherhand are important for the present and the future because the Hawks desperately need a few of those guys to step-up and become legitimate NBA starters (at the very least). So far, Smoove is the only one (obviously Al hasn't had a chance yet) that has demonstrated he has the ability to start. The punchline is that Smoove is the only one of the bunch that the Hawks did not use a very high lottery pick on.

[DrReality]

Here's a link to the pre-season games. First one is Oct 8.

http://www.nba.com/hawks/schedule/