Decision Tree Branches Regarding Horford

[Lascar78]

You keep changing the subject. There are three different questions and you keep switching from one to the other when it suits you. The questions are:

-A: What position will Smoove do better at, regardless of his teammates?

-B: What lineup / positions will be best for us to win this year?

-C: Where does Smoove want to play?

I was addressing question A. His skills are best suited to PF, that's where he has done best, and that's where I think he will do best in the long run. And no point you have made indicates otherwise. Like I've said, with his body, it will take very little improvement for him to dominate the post, and we are much better off with him in the paint on D.

What you seem to be talking about now is point B. First of all, he does let his man get position. He lets his man get position when he's at PF, and he lets his man get by him as a SF. So it's a wash. The difference is that with his body, he can learn how to push his man out early in the play a lot easier than he can learn how to become a quicker guy. As a PF he is in the post and can get a lot of help blocks and prevent penetration by intimidation. And at PF he is faster than his man and it makes his offense easier if he does draw him to the perimeter. And as I've said before, he's actually been very efficient when he does get in the post. A lot more efficient than Zaza for instance, he just hasn't done it as often. And this year we will have Horford who likes to post up also. If Smith is instructed to get in the post more often, we will have plenty of post play between him and Horford.

To adress point C, I don't know what he'd rather do. I know that early on he wanted to be on the perimeter, and Woody let him. It only took slow @ss Woody about two and a half years to realize that he had to get him to shoot less jumpers, and late in the year he started to respond. I think that despite reports Smith is a very coachable player that just wants to win and put up stats. I also think that he wants to be a well rounded player and has finally come to realize that he can really succeed in the post and that's why he went out of his way to work out with the Dream. I think that if Woody tells him to get his ass in the post, he will do it, do great, and realize that he should get down there more often. I don't think that what he wants to do matters that much unless you think he won't listen to the coach or that he'll get pissy about it and leave or something. I don't think he's that kind of a guy.

As for Al Harrington, I wanted him gone to give the young guys a chance to grow and carry the team. And that has happened. Smith has had a chance to blossom into a semi-star, which would not have happened if Al was still here. I also thought it would give Smith a chance to get established in the post, but we have a cowardly/clueless coach that has not made him do it and has missed an opportunity to this point.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

I was addressing question A. His skills are best suited to PF, that's where he has done best, and that's where I think he will do best in the long run. And no point you have made indicates otherwise. Like I've said, with his body, it will take very little improvement for him to dominate the post, and we are much better off with him in the paint on D.

---

I suggest to you that it's more likely that he did better statistically as a PF because he came off of injury, his playing time increased, and natural maturity. In essence, had Smoove spent the second half of the season playing Sf, he would probably still have those numbers if not better. You fail to watch Smoove, for if you watched him, you find that he does nothing that a PF skillset demand. He doesn't play Physical defense. Offensively he doesn't play in the lowpost. He has no post moves. When you play for a bad team and you're a semigood player, any position you play will be a position whereby you can put up good stats. That doesn't make him a PF.

Quote:

---

What you seem to be talking about now is point B. First of all, he does let his man get position. He lets his man get position when he's at PF, and he lets his man get by him as a SF. So it's a wash. The difference is that with his body, he can learn how to push his man out early in the play a lot easier than he can learn how to become a quicker guy.

---

This is a fallacy. Players just don't learn how to play positional basketball? That is not something a player can pick up overnight!! If it is, go grab Stromile Swift and Dirk Nowitsky and tell them that their defensive woahs are over... Get Kwame while you're at it. Physical positional defense is something that you learn as you come up. IF it were so easy, every Europlayer would be able to overcome the "soft" label. Sure, they know what to do, but it's more than just floor spacing my friend. It's an art... and Smoove has shied away from it for a reason. I think Smoove already realizes how difficult it is to learn to play the balance game. So he doesn't.

Quote:

---

o adress point C, I don't know what he'd rather do. I know that early on he wanted to be on the perimeter, and Woody let him. It only took slow @ss Woody about two and a half years to realize that he had to get him to shoot less jumpers, and late in the year he started to respond.

---

The perimeter shot is only a small part of what all a Sf can do. Namely the Sf is the easiest position to learn on the court because not much is expected. It really depends on the type of offense you run. Moreover, you don't have to be Larry Bird to play Sf. I have always envisioned Smoove to be more like Dominique and Shawn Marion in his style of play. Explosive players who can find their space on the floor and make their statements with their athleticism.

[Nicholasp27]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

i disagree with your assumption that he isn't a center

fact 1: he played center for the back-to-back ncaa champs

fact 2: 7' noah played pf next to horford, so horford didn't play center by default for being 'tallest guy on team'

---

...and that is the difference. SW was the center for Duke for 4 years. Get my drift.

W

---

so u only read fact one...not surprised

fact two is why he may be diff than shelden...did shelden play center while a 7'+ guy played pf? or did he because he was the biggest guy on the team, so defaulted to center?

additionally, shelden played better at center than pf last year and will likely play center a lot over his career...

shelden/horford will backup smoove at 4

horford/shelden/zaza will be the 3-man center rotation

ps. of course i didn't mention nba...because horford has yet to play in his first nba game!

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

You keep changing the subject. There are three different questions and you keep switching from one to the other when it suits you. The questions are:

-A: What position will Smoove do better at, regardless of his teammates?

-B: What lineup / positions will be best for us to win this year?

-C: Where does Smoove want to play?

---

A. I think Smoove would do better at Sf because his size and post skills are simply too limiting, but I can see an argument here as I think most people can. That is why almost everyone uses the terminology "is Smoove better at the Pf or Sf position?" rather than "What is JS: a Pf or a Sf?"

That's why I list him as a "3.5" on my integer rating scale for where a player is positioned. However, we cannot consider where JS would best play "regardless of his teamates"! We have a #2, #3, #3, and #6 picks invested around Josh Smith at mostly the Sf and Pf. We MUST consider his teamates because of our incredibly large franchise investment in them. It's not just much less primarily about what is best for JS. It's about what is best for the team.

JS, whatever position you think he should play given everybody else is prototypical for their position, is on a team where many if not most are NOT prototypical at their position. While JS might be a great Pf next to a prototypical center, next to Horford the team will likely be significantly too undersized and post-underskilled each and every night of the year. In the playoffs that disadvantage will be further exposed. There are similar questions should we play JS at Sf but I believe JS would prefer that and can more easily adapt to that role/position than the role/position of playing Pf next to a Pf playing center.

B. I'm not really concerned so much about next year but 2-3 years from now when we have matured enough to expect to play at our top (and hopefully top tier competitive) level and the contract issues upcoming have been addressed. I think we HAVE to find out whether MW, JS, and Horford can coexist WELL and the team succeed with them at the 3, 4, 5 but this is a forced delimma, not a prefered one, and one when contracts come around we better be d@mn sure about. Frankly, the best lineup this year is one designed to help determine who we should resign and for what.

C. Smoove clearly wants to play Sf. How else does a 6'9", 230 lb HS player come out as a Sf without wanting to be one? His style of play to date has done nothing to suggest he doesn't want to be a Sf. In fact, this offseason he has stated that he is cutting his weight some, believing he was simply too muscular to do what he wants to do. That's a definite indication of where his preference lies.

W

[Diesel]

Smoove doesn't need to be pigeon holed into a position that he's not equipped to play simply out of position necessity.

Let me ask you...

Why don't we just play Chillz at PG??

I mean, he's not a real PG, but he can dribble the ball pretty well. He will also give us an automatic Mismatch and he can take any PG to the low post. He also can shoot and hit an open shot, so when teams double JJ, there's another capable shooter on the floor!!

Why not just play Chillz at PG?

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Why not just play Chillz at PG?

---

There is no objective reason for playing Chillz at PG. His numbers are much worse when playing there and his opponents dominate him.

Chillz PER at PG: 6.3

Chillz Oppenent PER at PG: 28.l

Net PER at PG: -21.8

Net PER at SG: +3.9

Net PER at SF: +2.2

Contrast with Josh Smith:

Net PER at SF: +2.6

Net PER at PF: +5.9

The objective numbers say that playing Chillz at PG is a disaster and that Josh Smith is most effective at PF.

[Diesel]

That would almost be a compelling argument if it wasn't for the fact that Chillz play PG 0% of the time. How many minutes must it be to be 0% of the time. I guess that's like 5 minutes out of an 82 game season? Either way, it's misleading.

If you go by the pers of a player playing 0% of the season at a position, then Smoove definitely shouldn't be our PF... JJ should!

[atlien]

Quote:

---

Contrast with Josh Smith:

Net PER at SF: +2.6

Net PER at PF: +5.9

---

These stats have NOTHING to do with Chillz at pg or JJ at pf (those arguments of yours were irrelevant). You very conveniently avoid the hard truth that Smoove is more effective at the 4 (the numbers and the eyes prove it). You do it over and over again; conveneintly avoid the solid arguments (and you still refuse to aknowledge the AK-47, Marion argument).