Smith vs Harrington, truth vs perception

[exodus]

We would all like to see Smith focus more on inside scoring and shoot fewer jumpers. However the reality is that he does a lot more inside scoring than he gets credit for.

This past season 51% of Smiths shots were jumpers which just so happens to be the same percentage as Tim Duncan. of course Smiths shots were coming from farther out.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL11A.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0607/06SAS13A.HTM

Harrington played the 4 here and played it with Indy and GS this past season. With each team at least 60% of his shots were jumpers.

http://www.82games.com/0506/05ATL11A.HTM

Smith scored 8.2 ppg inside which is nearly 2 ppg more than what Harrington did here. With GS Harrington scored only 5.7 ppg and with Indy he scored only 6.1 ppg inside.Smith scored only 1 ppg less inside than Tim Duncan did last year.

Smiths EFG inside was 51.2%, virtually identical to what Harrington did with GS and Indy this past season and only 3% less than Harrington did with us. Keep in mind these percentages don't include dunks.

Why is the perception so different from reality in the case of Smiths inside game? The reason is that we are so used to seeing Smiths athleticism that we take it for granted. When he gets inside he can frequently elevate for a routine finish while Harrington has to force up a desparation shot and hope to draw a foul.

And when Smith can't get all the way to the rim but still tries to shoot he looks very bad because he doesn't have much game in the 4-10ft range. In this respect he is very similar to Dwight Howard who uses he athleticism to get a lot of easy dunks but struggles when he can't get all the way to the rim. Since Smith looks so bad on these attempts it leads to the perception that his inside scoring is worse than it really is.

The big difference between Harrington and Smith is really their outside shooting. this past season Harrington had an EFG on his jumpers of 47% with Indy and 49% with GS. Smiths EFG on jumpers this past season was 31.6% which was even worse than Speedy's 33%.

So while so many people here are carrying on and on about how Smith needs to improve his post game the reality is that it is his outside shooting which is really his biggest problem.

[AHF]

I think you make some good points but Smith does need to improve his post game. He can score inside but needs work in the post. Hopefully Hakeem gave him some helpful coaching his summer and he has put in the work. He has certainly added significantly to his game every other summer so far.

[frosgrim]

The biggest reason for the perception, IMO, is that Harrington would play with his back to the basket and back someone in. Smith use a face to the basket and drives past them. But those stats certainly show that Josh is getting inside to score. If Josh does have a back to the basket game now, he can be a very efficient scoring machine.

[exodus]

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I think you make some good points but Smith does need to improve his post game. He can score inside but needs work in the post. Hopefully Hakeem gave him some helpful coaching his summer and he has put in the work. He has certainly added significantly to his game every other summer so far.

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Sure he needs to improve his post game, especially in the 4-10 foot area. But he is not as bad as people are making him out to be.

His weak jumper is what really killed his shooting percentage.

[atlien]

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I think you make some good points but Smith does need to improve his post game. He can score inside but needs work in the post. Hopefully Hakeem gave him some helpful coaching his summer and he has put in the work. He has certainly added significantly to his game every other summer so far.

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I'd like to see some stats about his inside scoring/post game from the end of the season. I can clearly remember him posting up a lot more. With effective results.

[exodus]

Jefferson 9.4 ppg

Okafor 9.1

Gooden 4.6

Dirk 3.9

Camby 4.9

JO 6.0

Brand 6.2

Gasol 8.5

KG 5.2

Amare 9.7

Bosh 8.3

Boozer 11.7

Smiths 8.2 ppg doesn't look so bad after all.

[Packfill]

Smoove needs help on his post moves AND his ouside shooting! I don't see how anyone could see it as one or the other.

Isn't that why he worked with Hakeem AND Calvin Murphy in the off-season? Seems to me he knows he needs to improve in both areas.

[Diesel]

It's no perception... It's what I watched. I don't know who collected the data for 82 games, and I don't know what they call close, hwoever, I know this:

Al has a much more mature Post game than Smoove. PERIOD.

All liked to shoot... but bottom line is he had a much more mature post game than Smoove. Smoove has none.

Watch a game!!

[AHF]

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All liked to shoot... but bottom line is he had a much more mature post game than Smoove. Smoove has none.

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This is not inconsistent with anything ex said. He didn't qualify how the points were scored. Tony Parker scores a lot in the paint - just not in a post-up role. Harrington can do more posting up with a more mature post game than Josh Smith and still shoot mostly jumpers and score fewer overall inside points than Josh.

(Anyone can look at shot charts for individual games on CBS if that helps with one's recollection. The hot zones area on nba.com is another potential resource to see where someone is shooting.)

[exodus]

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All liked to shoot... but bottom line is he had a much more mature post game than Smoove. Smoove has none.

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This is not inconsistent with anything ex said. He didn't qualify how the points were scored. Tony Parker scores a lot in the paint - just not in a post-up role. Harrington can do more posting up with a more mature post game than Josh Smith and still shoot mostly jumpers and score fewer overall inside points than Josh.

(Anyone can look at shot charts for individual games on CBS if that helps with one's recollection. The hot zones area on nba.com is another potential resource to see where someone is shooting.)

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Correct.

What Al has (along with KG, Brand, etc) is a turnaround J they can use in close. Smith doesn't have that shot and that is the biggest hole in his post game.

Again it all points back to his jumper as his main weakness.

All of Diesel's opinions are based on his hate of Marvin so it is only natural that his perceptions are way out in left field.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I think you make some good points but Smith does need to improve his post game. He can score inside but needs work in the post. Hopefully Hakeem gave him some helpful coaching his summer and he has put in the work. He has certainly added significantly to his game every other summer so far.

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I'd like to see some stats about his inside scoring/post game from the end of the season. I can clearly remember him posting up a lot more. With effective results.

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Go to the http://nba.com/hotzones site

When you get to Josh Smith, and see his shot chart, click on the red area around the basket. When you do that, a box will pop up called "Zone Data for Selected Splits". In that box, you'll see all the points he scored and his FGM & FGA's in that area, for EACH game he played last year.

I looked that very thing up last night. I was counting fast, so I don't know how accurate I am, but I was close.

I came up with Smoove scoring 11.5 ppg in shots around the rim, in the games that JJ were out. His scoring on the inside, at the end of the year, was pretty dramatic and most importantly, CONSISTENT.

In the time he played the 3 at the beginning of the year, until Marvin came back in December, Smoove only scored in double figures in that zone around the rim, 3 times.

The MINUTE that Marvin comes back, and he moves to the 4, he scored in double figures in the zone around the rim in 4 of the next 7 games.

When he came back from the hernia surgery in January, he played the 4, and scored in double figures in that zone around the rim in 6 of the next 9 games.

In March and April, he scored in double figures around the rim in every game, with the exception of 4 games.

So he goes from a guy who never went to the rim, while playing the 3 . . to a guy who ALMOST ALWAYS went to the rim, while playing the 4. Yes, he still would take that occasional 3 pointer or long shot. But they were much fewer and much further between, late in the year.

It's pretty obvious where this kid needs to be playing. And it's also pretty obvious that he can't produce offensively playing the 3, like he can playing the 4.

[exodus]

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In that box, you'll see all the points he scored and his FGM & FGA's in that area, for EACH game he played last year.

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That's pretty cool. It certainly seems like Smith got the message about taking it to the basket.

[atlien]

Great stuff. That really goes with what I saw. Near the end of last season Smoove WAS taking it to the hole, posting up, etc. And he was quite effective doing it.

See, this is what we NEED him to be doing. We don't need him playing on the perimeter, chucking outside shots (even if that is what HE wants to do, as Diesel puts it... personally, I tihnk he wants to do whatever it is will make him the best player possible)

Playing around the rim is where he will thrive. But let's argue another 20 threads about it! How bout that!

[Guest Walter]

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The reason is that we are so used to seeing Smiths athleticism that we take it for granted.

When he gets inside he can frequently elevate for a routine finish while Harrington has to force up a desparation shot and hope to draw a foul.

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...playing Pf (Marion) didn't get 3 times as many FGs from the paint aside from dunks. If you are 3 times less a power forward than Shawn Marion...

Do I need to finish that comparison? Hell no.

W