Are Hawks half empty or Half full?

[gsuteke]

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The rebuild may well indeed be done. But that doesn't mean that we don't tweak the lineup every now and then. We are one of the few teams, with the flexibility to do that, even after we sign Smoove and Chill.

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That is a tough pill to swallow when one lives in a world of extreme absolutes and/or is rigid in their thinking.

Actually impossible would be a more accurate description.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

[drzachary]

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I would clearly think that it would be better to be wrong, if being right means the team continues to falter.

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I didn't know I had such power. That my being right or accurate MAKES the team or its prospects worse off. I'm accurate.

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You're misunderstanding me. I'm not implying that you have any sort of power at all. Realistically, I too think that the team will not win the championship this year. So, would I rather be right or would I rather be wrong? Of course, I'd rather be wrong! That's the point: fandom, as I see it, grants its pleasure from being hopeful, even ludicrously so. Just look at the Cubs fans! Your fandom appears to be stimulated by being right. That ain't so kosher -- to me, anyways.

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You and I have different perceptions of fandom. I'm not saying one is right and the other is wrong, but yours is very foreign to me.

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Yours is less accurate historically. Mine is more accurate historically.

It is better to guage a team accurately than to guage it inaccurately, PERIOD.

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Ah, Grasshopper, this is where we differ. What is 'better' about it? Does it make you happier? I am quite happy with my foolish hopes for an 82-0 season. From my perspective, being "right" about predicting a failed season doesn't make me happy at all: thus, it is not better, in any sense of the word. Mathematically: Better != more accurate.

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In NO OTHER area of your life would anyone believe it's better to INACCURATELY but optimistically guage the strength of a stock, the value of your home, etc. It's ALWAYS better to be accurate, to be right, to be correct. It is through accurate appraisals that improvement can be first measured and then met. Otherwise, we remain a 45 win team that NEVER wins 35 games because fans and the front office are too busy being rosey and WRONG.

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I hold the belief that a city very close to my heart, where many people in my family live, will be destroyed soon by a nuclear bomb, killing all of those people (and a million more.) Is it still better to prognosticate with accuracy? I'd say no.

[exodus]

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Ah, Grasshopper, this is where we differ. What is 'better' about it? Does it make you happier? I am quite happy with my foolish hopes for an 82-0 season. From my perspective, being "right" about predicting a failed season doesn't make me happy at all: thus, it is not better, in any sense of the word.

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LOL i guess it takes all kinds to make the world go around. However i think i have noticed a crack in the blind homerism that is your fandom.

Just one question. On a scale of 1 to 10 (Walter and Diesels Marvin hate being a 10) how much do you dislike Lue?

[AHF]

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I hold the belief that a city very close to my heart, where many people in my family live, will be destroyed soon by a nuclear bomb, killing all of those people (and a million more.) Is it still better to prognosticate with accuracy? I'd say no.

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If you are wrong about that and no city would be destroyed, you would agree it would be better to prognosticate correctly rather than live with a false fear of the bomb hitting, though, right? That cuts both ways.

[gsuteke]

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I hold the belief that a city very close to my heart, where many people in my family live, will be destroyed soon by a nuclear bomb, killing all of those people (and a million more.) Is it still better to prognosticate with accuracy? I'd say no.

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If you are wrong about that and no city would be destroyed, you would agree it would be better to prognosticate correctly rather than live with a false fear of the bomb hitting, though, right? That cuts both ways.

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you've always facilitated bad behavior my friend, whether you have realized that or not.

I guess it's part of being on the far _____ free speech no matter what silly things a person may say side of things.

Hawksquawk is reaping what it has sowed.

[drzachary]

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I hold the belief that a city very close to my heart, where many people in my family live, will be destroyed soon by a nuclear bomb, killing all of those people (and a million more.) Is it still better to prognosticate with accuracy? I'd say no.

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If you are wrong about that and no city would be destroyed, you would agree it would be better to prognosticate correctly rather than live with a false fear of the bomb hitting, though, right? That cuts both ways.

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Right. The point is that it is not always better to be right, not that it is always better to be wrong!

[gsuteke]

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I hold the belief that a city very close to my heart, where many people in my family live, will be destroyed soon by a nuclear bomb, killing all of those people (and a million more.) Is it still better to prognosticate with accuracy? I'd say no.

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If you are wrong about that and no city would be destroyed, you would agree it would be better to prognosticate correctly rather than live with a false fear of the bomb hitting, though, right? That cuts both ways.

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you've always facilitated bad behavior my friend, whether you have realized that or not.

I guess it's part of being on the far _____ free speech no matter what silly things a person may say side of things.

Hawksquawk is reaping what it has sowed.

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That was poorly worded. It certainly could have been taken as mean spirited and that was not my intention.

The simple truth is Hawksquawk has been and continues to enable bad behavior.

[Guest Walter]

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fandom, as I see it, grants its pleasure from being hopeful, even ludicrously so.

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Then whatever you post should not be believed. It is "ludicrous". We are fans here, yes, but if being a fan means you have no credibility when it comes to the franchise and team, then no one should listen to you. As Rumsfeld said...Cheer for the team you have, NOT the team you hope beyond all hope you want to have...

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I hold the belief that a city very close to my heart, where many people in my family live, will be destroyed soon by a nuclear bomb, killing all of those people (and a million more.) Is it still better to prognosticate with accuracy? I'd say no.

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Actually, yes. The accuracy of our prognostication isn't what makes the event happen. Nor is the prognostication what is saddening (the event is). It merely tells you what will happen. That knowledge offers potential for meaningful responses, even REAL happiness and not the pseudo-happiness ignoring reality may offer.

First, "soon" could mean in several hours, days, a week. You could easily save the life of your family. THAT is real happiness. Even if you for some reason didn't tell them (maybe it was a matter of minutes), you could at least call them and tell them you love them. What do you do if you do NOT belief such a prognostication and it comes true? NO-THING. You walk your dog, pick up your dry cleaning. Happiness I guess for a moment, but if you'd only listened to yourself, only believed what was obviously true (because remember each of the last 5 years you also chose to not believe it and another city with other family blew up...Hmmm, how many family members have to die because YOU won't or don't want to believe in the reality that is confronting you?)

I've proven accurate in my Hawk prospect and team analysis despite numerous people WANTING to consider it too negative. Who SHOULD you believe? Not whom do you WANT to believe. Everyone WANTS to believe the "ludicrious" optimist. Sadly, if our management believes them and is consistently 10 games and a Brandon Roy vs Shelden Williams removed from the reality we'll NEVER win anything of importance or draft well.

The only argument you have is that unlike money or nuclear bombs, Hawk fandom is trivial. I don't think it is.

W

[Guest Walter]

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Right. The point is that it is not always better to be right, not that it is always better to be wrong!

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Is it better to be more often right than wrong? I mean come on. ARguning against absolutism is arguing nothing. ARguing against what is obvious is as you put it "ludicrous".

We lost 10 more games than GSUteke thought last year and Brandon Roy was 10 times the player SW was. Now, given just how WRONG GSUteke was, what gives you ANY confidence that he is right this year? Not what makes you WANT to belive that the rainbow has a pot of gold at its end. We all WANT that, just some are able to witness what is real outside of what they want.

W

[drzachary]

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Then whatever you post should not be believed. It is "ludicrous".

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This is a very healthy way of looking at everything I say, and I encourage it!

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I hold the belief that a city very close to my heart, where many people in my family live, will be destroyed soon by a nuclear bomb, killing all of those people (and a million more.) Is it still better to prognosticate with accuracy? I'd say no.

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Actually, yes.

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Hm. You're still missing the point. Which of the following is the best:

A. belief: "I believe that my dog will die tomorrow."

event: My dog dies.

B. belief: "My dog will live to a ripe old age."

event: My dog dies.

C. belief: "I believe that my dog will die tomorrow."

event: My dog lives to a ripe old age.

D. belief: "I believe that my dog will live to a ripe

old age."

event: My dog lives to a ripe old age.

In terms of what's best, rated from the way that the quality of my own life is affected, I'd rate them from best to worst- D, C, B, A. I was "right" in D and A, but "wrong" in C and B. Clearly it's best to hope for the best and have the best happen. But, when it comes down to it, the event is what makes something the best, not the belief (the prediction.) If I had a silly belief that my dog would be dead tomorrow, would I rather be right or wrong? Wrong, of course! No amount of being right will overtake the happiness of the good event.

In conclusion: being right is vastly overrated.

[Peoriabird]

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In conclusion: being right is vastly overrated.

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You can't make an optimist out of a pessimist so why are you trying? This guy is who he is and no discussion on this message board is going to change him. He will never see things that way you see them but if it is entertaining to you to continue to get him to restate his pessimistic view again and again, then by all mean keep egging him on! That's my

[Gray Mule]

If Hawks are to win half their games, then they are

half way to that 82-0 record of being perfect.

Sure, we're more than half way there to having a great,

wonderful winning team. In fact, we're close.

Last season's team, when they were all healthy, which

we all know was so seldom, was a pretty good team.

Despite everything that went wrong, and there was too

many things to mention here, Hawks were pushing and

hoping for a playoff spot late into the season.

Two things cause me to be optimistic for this season.

1- We have all our players from last season back for

this season, with the exception of two. They are all

healthy right now. Last season's experience should

be a big plus as our youngsters have grown.

2- The two players missing from last season's squad,

Batista and Ivey have been replaced by our two first

round draft choices. Although neither has had any

experience in the NBA, I have to believe that we have

made an upgrade here, don't you??

As far as our "losing" draft choices in our trade for

our All Star player, we didn't loose them. We spent

them. Ask yourself, would you trade back? Recieve

Diaw and two draft choices for our All Star?

Sure, we've made mistakes. Drafted all the wrong players

if we are to believe some. Yet, here we are with a

roster of players, two deep at every position ready

to make some noise this season. Young. Experienced.

[mrhonline]

This is what happens when you overanalyze a Graymule thread. His original intentions have been thwarted, I'm afraid.

[drzachary]

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Ah, Grasshopper, this is where we differ. What is 'better' about it? Does it make you happier? I am quite happy with my foolish hopes for an 82-0 season. From my perspective, being "right" about predicting a failed season doesn't make me happy at all: thus, it is not better, in any sense of the word.

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LOL i guess it takes all kinds to make the world go around. However i think i have noticed a crack in the blind homerism that is your fandom.

Just one question. On a scale of 1 to 10 (Walter and Diesels Marvin hate being a 10) how much do you dislike Lue?

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10,000. Lue blows!

[exodus]

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Ah, Grasshopper, this is where we differ. What is 'better' about it? Does it make you happier? I am quite happy with my foolish hopes for an 82-0 season. From my perspective, being "right" about predicting a failed season doesn't make me happy at all: thus, it is not better, in any sense of the word.

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LOL i guess it takes all kinds to make the world go around. However i think i have noticed a crack in the blind homerism that is your fandom.

Just one question. On a scale of 1 to 10 (Walter and Diesels Marvin hate being a 10) how much do you dislike Lue?

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10,000. Lue blows!

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I knew i could bring out your inner Walter.

[drzachary]

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Ah, Grasshopper, this is where we differ. What is 'better' about it? Does it make you happier? I am quite happy with my foolish hopes for an 82-0 season. From my perspective, being "right" about predicting a failed season doesn't make me happy at all: thus, it is not better, in any sense of the word.

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LOL i guess it takes all kinds to make the world go around. However i think i have noticed a crack in the blind homerism that is your fandom.

Just one question. On a scale of 1 to 10 (Walter and Diesels Marvin hate being a 10) how much do you dislike Lue?

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10,000. Lue blows!

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I knew i could bring out your inner Walter.

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Not quite As it's the offseason, let me explain my Lue-"hatred" a bit. You might have seen before that I'm a big fan of the Reverse Jinx. I forget how many seasons ago, but Lue was going through a bad stretch, so I started disparaging him. He started doing very well, which has been explored statistically many times by you and others! You may recall that my opposition to Lue was completely 'holistic' and in no way supported by the numbers.

However, if I started to compliment him, the karma might reverse itself and he'd start to falter again. In fact, I believe that all the dry spells he's had since then are my fault for thinking positive thoughts about him.

Therefore, it is with an optimistic heart that I say, "Lue blows! Go Hawks!"

[exodus]

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You may recall that my opposition to Lue was completely 'holistic'

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[Guest Walter]

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Hm. You're still missing the point. Which of the following is the best:

A. belief: "I believe that my dog will die tomorrow."

event: My dog dies.

B. belief: "My dog will live to a ripe old age."

event: My dog dies.

C. belief: "I believe that my dog will die tomorrow."

event: My dog lives to a ripe old age.

D. belief: "I believe that my dog will live to a ripe

old age."

event: My dog lives to a ripe old age.

In conclusion: being right is vastly overrated.

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The point was that for the last 5 years I have accurately predicted the poor health of my dog and have sought veterinary care for it. The last 5 years you have overlooked the poor health of your dog, pretending that it is (10 games) healthier than it is and failing to seek medical attention. While you think your dog is healthier, it is more ill and will die sooner.

I-F Hawk management had been right, we wouldn't have a sick dog now.

W

[Guest Walter]

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Walter may be saying it harshly, but I don't think a bottomline of "I can't affect the standing but I hope that I can see the basketball world accurately" is offensive in anyway. I don't think Walter is saying he hopes the Hawks will lose, just that he would rather see a spade as a spade than buy into false promise or underrate a team that isn't given its due. I don't have any problem with that. I think he may be selectively picking between his success stories and his failures in terms of predicting but his first choice in the draft has usually been right and on the Hawks' pick he has been pretty good so on that he has a pretty good track record.

All that said, I personally hope he is wrong this year both about the draft and about the Hawks.

And I think he would agree he would rather the Hawks exceed his prediction this year and every year!

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It's the 3 monkeys too often when it comes to fandom.

Frankly, it's a question of what "belief" is. If belief is merely what you say, then let fan hacks insist the Hawks will win 15 more games than they actually will and boast about their sorry draft picks like SW year in and year out. Each and every year they get it just as wrong as anyone ever has, make every excuse there ever was for their inability to accurately predict a GD thing, blame everyone else who repeatedly gets it right for not willingly disbelieving enough, and then extending that unwillingness to disbelieve the obvious as an impediment to the team.

It's a rosey crock that supports the status quo and the current regime.

This franchise has long deserved better but if you can't even witness that it wasn't a 40 win team last year or SW wasn't a good pick (over Roy especially) then you'll never want better for it. You are a part of the problem.

W